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	Comments on: The most beautiful woman in the Netherlands	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2023 23:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Neo

Thanks for relating my Churchill memory.
I note his description of the Victorian era was without reference to the exaggerated sexual repression--or fakery thereof--associated with the term.  Did furniture really have....LEGS?   Shocking.

Churchill&#039;s definition would last likely until 1914.

A friend who&#039;d read The Last Lion said that the repression was for the middle classes, particularly the mid and upper sections.  The Upper classes lived pretty large.

So for the uppers, it was never the &quot;victorian&quot; age wrt the whole sexual repression and whatever it might be called whose stereotype has come down to us.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo</p>
<p>Thanks for relating my Churchill memory.<br />
I note his description of the Victorian era was without reference to the exaggerated sexual repression&#8211;or fakery thereof&#8211;associated with the term.  Did furniture really have&#8230;.LEGS?   Shocking.</p>
<p>Churchill&#8217;s definition would last likely until 1914.</p>
<p>A friend who&#8217;d read The Last Lion said that the repression was for the middle classes, particularly the mid and upper sections.  The Upper classes lived pretty large.</p>
<p>So for the uppers, it was never the &#8220;victorian&#8221; age wrt the whole sexual repression and whatever it might be called whose stereotype has come down to us.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cornhead		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688666</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cornhead]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2023 01:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688666</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[2 + 2 = 5

Accept it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2 + 2 = 5</p>
<p>Accept it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688658</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2023 00:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688658</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey:

The Victorian Era was a cultural thing and hardly limited to the UK.  In fact, &lt;a href=&quot;https://victorian-era.org/victorian-era-america.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;the US partook of the mores of the Victorian Era&lt;/a&gt; as well, and Jennie was raised in that time.  This was especially true among the wealthy, and Jennie&#039;s family was wealthy. On the other hand, most people are not really aware that the stereotypes of the Victorian Age were not quite as repressive as popularly thought.  And Jennie Jerome and many other people among the &quot;elites&quot; lived a much bolder life than those stereotypes would indicate.  

Jennie moved to the UK in 1874, just about smack in the middle of the Victorian Age. She was born in 1854, so she was only about 20 when she moved to Britain.  She married a Lord and was very much a part of the society there.  The Victorian Age was definitely not ending when Winston was born in 1874 (less than 9 months after his parents were wed) and he was raised in that milieu.  What&#039;s more, he &lt;a href=&quot;http://figures-of-speech.com/2020/07/churchill-horses.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;started riding horses as a young child&lt;/a&gt; - as did most wealthy people in that society:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Churchill had a particular love of horses, even though his very first riding experience, when he was four, ended with his being thrown unceremoniously by a donkey. The little chap put that experience behind him and at the age of seven he was riding around Blenheim Park on his pony Rob Roy.

His grandfather, the 7th Duke of Marlborough, was the owner of this gigantic palace of quite un-English size and assertiveness. Good riding skills were generally expected from a member of the British aristocracy, if only to take part in fox and deer hunts.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When Churchill was a child, he adored his mother, but &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/news/archives-centre/jennie-churchill-life-politics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;mostly from afar&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;As a child, it has been recognised that Churchill was widely neglected by both his parents. Lord Randolph was fixated on his career and Jennie’s active social life meant she had little time for her two sons. The vast majority of the Churchill children’s care was entrusted to their nanny, Elizabeth Everest. Despite this, even at a young age, Churchill admired his mother. In his memoirs, My Early Years, he wrote; ‘She shone for me like the evening Star. I loved her dearly but at a distance.’  [Winston Churchill, My Early Years (London: Eland Publishing, 2000), p.4.] &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/churchillws-myearlylife/churchillws-myearlylife-00-h-dir/churchillws-myearlylife-00-h.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Here are Churchill&#039;s own words&lt;/a&gt; in that memoir which he wrote in 1930:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I was a child of the Victorian era, when the structure of our country seemed firmly set, when its position in trade and on the seas was unrivalled, and when the realization of the greatness of our Empire and of our duty to preserve it was ever growing stronger. In those days the dominant forces in Great Britain were very sure of themselves and of their doctrines. They thought they could teach the world the art of government, and the science of economics. They were sure they were supreme at sea and consequently safe at home. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

And I believe that this is the passage to which you refer.  Churchill is describing something when he was very young, and still with his nursemaid Mrs. Everest:

&lt;blockquote&gt;My mother took no part in these impositions, but she gave me to understand that she approved of [these tedious early lessons from the Governess] and she sided with the Governess almost always. My picture of her in Ireland is in a riding habit, fitting like a skin and often beautifully spotted with mud. She and my father hunted continually on their large horses; and sometimes there were great scares because one or the other did not come back for many hours after they were expected.

My mother always seemed to me a fairy princess: a radiant being possessed of limitless riches and power. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The perspective of a young child with a beautiful, charismatic, but distant mother, and definitely during the Victorian Era.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Aubrey:</p>
<p>The Victorian Era was a cultural thing and hardly limited to the UK.  In fact, <a href="https://victorian-era.org/victorian-era-america.html" rel="nofollow ugc">the US partook of the mores of the Victorian Era</a> as well, and Jennie was raised in that time.  This was especially true among the wealthy, and Jennie&#8217;s family was wealthy. On the other hand, most people are not really aware that the stereotypes of the Victorian Age were not quite as repressive as popularly thought.  And Jennie Jerome and many other people among the &#8220;elites&#8221; lived a much bolder life than those stereotypes would indicate.  </p>
<p>Jennie moved to the UK in 1874, just about smack in the middle of the Victorian Age. She was born in 1854, so she was only about 20 when she moved to Britain.  She married a Lord and was very much a part of the society there.  The Victorian Age was definitely not ending when Winston was born in 1874 (less than 9 months after his parents were wed) and he was raised in that milieu.  What&#8217;s more, he <a href="http://figures-of-speech.com/2020/07/churchill-horses.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">started riding horses as a young child</a> &#8211; as did most wealthy people in that society:</p>
<blockquote><p>Churchill had a particular love of horses, even though his very first riding experience, when he was four, ended with his being thrown unceremoniously by a donkey. The little chap put that experience behind him and at the age of seven he was riding around Blenheim Park on his pony Rob Roy.</p>
<p>His grandfather, the 7th Duke of Marlborough, was the owner of this gigantic palace of quite un-English size and assertiveness. Good riding skills were generally expected from a member of the British aristocracy, if only to take part in fox and deer hunts.</p></blockquote>
<p>When Churchill was a child, he adored his mother, but <a href="https://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/news/archives-centre/jennie-churchill-life-politics/" rel="nofollow ugc">mostly from afar</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>As a child, it has been recognised that Churchill was widely neglected by both his parents. Lord Randolph was fixated on his career and Jennie’s active social life meant she had little time for her two sons. The vast majority of the Churchill children’s care was entrusted to their nanny, Elizabeth Everest. Despite this, even at a young age, Churchill admired his mother. In his memoirs, My Early Years, he wrote; ‘She shone for me like the evening Star. I loved her dearly but at a distance.’  [Winston Churchill, My Early Years (London: Eland Publishing, 2000), p.4.] </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/churchillws-myearlylife/churchillws-myearlylife-00-h-dir/churchillws-myearlylife-00-h.html" rel="nofollow ugc">Here are Churchill&#8217;s own words</a> in that memoir which he wrote in 1930:</p>
<blockquote><p>I was a child of the Victorian era, when the structure of our country seemed firmly set, when its position in trade and on the seas was unrivalled, and when the realization of the greatness of our Empire and of our duty to preserve it was ever growing stronger. In those days the dominant forces in Great Britain were very sure of themselves and of their doctrines. They thought they could teach the world the art of government, and the science of economics. They were sure they were supreme at sea and consequently safe at home. </p></blockquote>
<p>And I believe that this is the passage to which you refer.  Churchill is describing something when he was very young, and still with his nursemaid Mrs. Everest:</p>
<blockquote><p>My mother took no part in these impositions, but she gave me to understand that she approved of [these tedious early lessons from the Governess] and she sided with the Governess almost always. My picture of her in Ireland is in a riding habit, fitting like a skin and often beautifully spotted with mud. She and my father hunted continually on their large horses; and sometimes there were great scares because one or the other did not come back for many hours after they were expected.</p>
<p>My mother always seemed to me a fairy princess: a radiant being possessed of limitless riches and power. </p></blockquote>
<p>The perspective of a young child with a beautiful, charismatic, but distant mother, and definitely during the Victorian Era.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688650</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2023 23:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688650</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo,
Jenny Churchill was American and probably didn&#039;t get as Victorianized as the Brit uppers, excesses of Newport society notwithstanding.
Churchill wrote this as of a time he, too, was riding so it would be later in his childhood if not early adulthood.  So as the Victoria thing was ending.  In addition, if it had been common, he might not have wanted to admire it and write for others to admire.
One can be thin and flabby and if that&#039;s a fashion, by golly, some are going to, and, corsets or not, one can look it if that&#039;s the desired effect.  As with other things but frequently with fashion, if some is good, more is better until....
Should say I have read of the &quot;doughy&quot; or &quot;useless&quot; in works having to do with other things entirely, so they&#039;d have been observations by the author, in passing, possibly for color, and not his subject.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,<br />
Jenny Churchill was American and probably didn&#8217;t get as Victorianized as the Brit uppers, excesses of Newport society notwithstanding.<br />
Churchill wrote this as of a time he, too, was riding so it would be later in his childhood if not early adulthood.  So as the Victoria thing was ending.  In addition, if it had been common, he might not have wanted to admire it and write for others to admire.<br />
One can be thin and flabby and if that&#8217;s a fashion, by golly, some are going to, and, corsets or not, one can look it if that&#8217;s the desired effect.  As with other things but frequently with fashion, if some is good, more is better until&#8230;.<br />
Should say I have read of the &#8220;doughy&#8221; or &#8220;useless&#8221; in works having to do with other things entirely, so they&#8217;d have been observations by the author, in passing, possibly for color, and not his subject.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sennacherib		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688646</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sennacherib]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2023 23:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688646</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh I&#039;ll just say it for whatever reason they cheated and they know everyone knows it. Cheaters never prosper, never.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I&#8217;ll just say it for whatever reason they cheated and they know everyone knows it. Cheaters never prosper, never.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sennacherib		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688643</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sennacherib]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2023 23:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688643</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To be honest I kinda feel sorry for them (either their desire to win or make a social point, it doesn&#039;t matter) they know what they did and why and they certainly know they&#039;ll be discarded by the powers that be when their usefulness is over.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest I kinda feel sorry for them (either their desire to win or make a social point, it doesn&#8217;t matter) they know what they did and why and they certainly know they&#8217;ll be discarded by the powers that be when their usefulness is over.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Skip		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688615</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skip]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2023 20:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688615</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Anything a woman can do, a man can do better

It was baked in the Woke cake, the outcome was pre-determined is my guess]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anything a woman can do, a man can do better</p>
<p>It was baked in the Woke cake, the outcome was pre-determined is my guess</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Harmon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688611</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Harmon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2023 20:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688611</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They whiffed.  The most beautiful Dutch woman at the moment is Eva Vlaardingerbroek.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They whiffed.  The most beautiful Dutch woman at the moment is Eva Vlaardingerbroek.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Izapole		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688597</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Izapole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2023 19:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127153#comment-2688597</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That is one ugly dude.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is one ugly dude.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/11/the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-netherlands/#comment-2688563</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2023 16:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey:

I don&#039;t think the Victorian female ideal was &quot;soft and doughy.&quot; No one looks soft and doughy when in a corset.   And Churchill was born in 1874, whereas Victoria died in 1901.  He was raised in the Victorian age and whatever childhood memories he had of his mother were from that time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Aubrey:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the Victorian female ideal was &#8220;soft and doughy.&#8221; No one looks soft and doughy when in a corset.   And Churchill was born in 1874, whereas Victoria died in 1901.  He was raised in the Victorian age and whatever childhood memories he had of his mother were from that time.</p>
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