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	Comments on: Open thread 6/12/23	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:40:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Snow on Pine		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683905</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snow on Pine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683905</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan--

One of the arguments being heard against the assertions by David Grusch about UFOs, Aliens, and a rogue crash retrieval and reverse engineering program that has gone on for 80 or 90 years now, is that it would be impossible for the government to keep this kind of thing secret; someone would spill the beans.

I think by now, though, the idea that the government might lie to us is not a foreign or outlandish concept. 

It seems  to me that a lot of people, over the decades, have tried to “spill the beans” but, as Grusch says, the government—aided by the MSM and the entertainment industry--has run a very successful disinformation campaign against the American people, and the commercialization of UFOs and Aliens and making them “entertainment” was a stroke of genius. 

Elements of the government and/or perhaps private contractors encouraging the ridicule, the whack jobs, so many crazy ideas, so many &quot;UFO experts,&quot; so much “tin foil hattery,” so many charlatans and con artists out there, with some good ol&#039; MIB intimidation thrown in to boot.

In some cases just silence about a particular incident, in many others releases of a little bit of truth “sandwiched between two lies,” so many street signs twisted, so many false leads planted, so much chaff thrown up in the air that the truth gets lost in it, and any voice speaking the truth—the signal--is lost in the cacophony; up against a “wall of noise” and ridicule. 

Grusch says that people ought to take another look at Roswell.

At Roswell the first official press release was about the Army Air Force finding a flying disc but--by the next day—supposedly those first Army Air Force press releases were wrong—it was really just the remnants of a small silver weather balloon which had fallen to earth.  

Over the decades participants in the coverup and other witnesses started to tell their stories—sometimes on their deathbeds--and over the decades the Air Force just kept on coming up with more explanations for why they were mistaken. 
 
Bodies of dead aliens? No, these were dummies which had been dropped from aircraft as part of an Air Force test program. 

The hundreds of people who have been involved in or witnessed some part of this incident and coverup and have come forth to say their piece over the decades? They didn&#039;t see, do, or say what they said they did, they&#039;re all mistaken, lying, or hallucinating. 

So now, there are “UFO highway” signs around the area, and a great UFO shop--full of cheap UFO schlock--at Roswell.  If you want to find a nifty green Alien suit, an alien themed glow in the dark freezer magnet, key chain, or a plastic model of a UFO, that&#039;s the place to find it. 

How about MJ-12, and the documents supposedly attesting to this organization&#039;s existence which were just anonymously mailed to someone to start the ball rolling?

How about the “Admiral Wilson memo”?

And on and on throughout the decades.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan&#8211;</p>
<p>One of the arguments being heard against the assertions by David Grusch about UFOs, Aliens, and a rogue crash retrieval and reverse engineering program that has gone on for 80 or 90 years now, is that it would be impossible for the government to keep this kind of thing secret; someone would spill the beans.</p>
<p>I think by now, though, the idea that the government might lie to us is not a foreign or outlandish concept. </p>
<p>It seems  to me that a lot of people, over the decades, have tried to “spill the beans” but, as Grusch says, the government—aided by the MSM and the entertainment industry&#8211;has run a very successful disinformation campaign against the American people, and the commercialization of UFOs and Aliens and making them “entertainment” was a stroke of genius. </p>
<p>Elements of the government and/or perhaps private contractors encouraging the ridicule, the whack jobs, so many crazy ideas, so many &#8220;UFO experts,&#8221; so much “tin foil hattery,” so many charlatans and con artists out there, with some good ol&#8217; MIB intimidation thrown in to boot.</p>
<p>In some cases just silence about a particular incident, in many others releases of a little bit of truth “sandwiched between two lies,” so many street signs twisted, so many false leads planted, so much chaff thrown up in the air that the truth gets lost in it, and any voice speaking the truth—the signal&#8211;is lost in the cacophony; up against a “wall of noise” and ridicule. </p>
<p>Grusch says that people ought to take another look at Roswell.</p>
<p>At Roswell the first official press release was about the Army Air Force finding a flying disc but&#8211;by the next day—supposedly those first Army Air Force press releases were wrong—it was really just the remnants of a small silver weather balloon which had fallen to earth.  </p>
<p>Over the decades participants in the coverup and other witnesses started to tell their stories—sometimes on their deathbeds&#8211;and over the decades the Air Force just kept on coming up with more explanations for why they were mistaken. </p>
<p>Bodies of dead aliens? No, these were dummies which had been dropped from aircraft as part of an Air Force test program. </p>
<p>The hundreds of people who have been involved in or witnessed some part of this incident and coverup and have come forth to say their piece over the decades? They didn&#8217;t see, do, or say what they said they did, they&#8217;re all mistaken, lying, or hallucinating. </p>
<p>So now, there are “UFO highway” signs around the area, and a great UFO shop&#8211;full of cheap UFO schlock&#8211;at Roswell.  If you want to find a nifty green Alien suit, an alien themed glow in the dark freezer magnet, key chain, or a plastic model of a UFO, that&#8217;s the place to find it. </p>
<p>How about MJ-12, and the documents supposedly attesting to this organization&#8217;s existence which were just anonymously mailed to someone to start the ball rolling?</p>
<p>How about the “Admiral Wilson memo”?</p>
<p>And on and on throughout the decades.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683889</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 08:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683889</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Asking THE &quot;interesting&quot; question.
(Well, SOMEONE&#039;s got to do it....)
&quot;United States: Fifty Little Dictatorships&quot;---
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/united-states-fifty-little-dictatorships
Key grafs:
&#039; Historically, a public policy catastrophe like the Covid response would lead to reform aimed at curtailing the powers that leadership abused....
&#039;...&lt;b&gt;It is now clear that those responsible for the Covid response aren’t looking for amnesty or forgiveness; they seek a government structure that codifies their authoritarian impulses and a legal system that offers citizens no means of demanding accountability from their rulers. Publicly, they are searching for any “emergency” to increase their power. Privately, they are looking to put that system into law....&lt;/b&gt;&#039; [Emphasis mine; Barry M.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asking THE &#8220;interesting&#8221; question.<br />
(Well, SOMEONE&#8217;s got to do it&#8230;.)<br />
&#8220;United States: Fifty Little Dictatorships&#8221;&#8212;<br />
<a href="https://www.zerohedge.com/political/united-states-fifty-little-dictatorships" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.zerohedge.com/political/united-states-fifty-little-dictatorships</a><br />
Key grafs:<br />
&#8216; Historically, a public policy catastrophe like the Covid response would lead to reform aimed at curtailing the powers that leadership abused&#8230;.<br />
&#8216;&#8230;<b>It is now clear that those responsible for the Covid response aren’t looking for amnesty or forgiveness; they seek a government structure that codifies their authoritarian impulses and a legal system that offers citizens no means of demanding accountability from their rulers. Publicly, they are searching for any “emergency” to increase their power. Privately, they are looking to put that system into law&#8230;.</b>&#8216; [Emphasis mine; Barry M.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 07:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Never a dull day in the Big Apple....
&quot;Cops know who real NYPD commissioner is — and it wasn’t Keechant Sewell&quot;---
https://nypost.com/2023/06/12/cops-know-who-real-nypd-commissioner-is-and-it-wasnt-keechant-sewell/

+ Bonus:
&quot;NYPD Commissioner Keechant Sewell suddenly resigns, blindsiding City Hall: sources&quot;---
https://nypost.com/2023/06/12/nypd-commissioner-keechant-sewell-resigning-after-nearly-a-year-and-a-half-on-the-job/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never a dull day in the Big Apple&#8230;.<br />
&#8220;Cops know who real NYPD commissioner is — and it wasn’t Keechant Sewell&#8221;&#8212;<br />
<a href="https://nypost.com/2023/06/12/cops-know-who-real-nypd-commissioner-is-and-it-wasnt-keechant-sewell/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://nypost.com/2023/06/12/cops-know-who-real-nypd-commissioner-is-and-it-wasnt-keechant-sewell/</a></p>
<p>+ Bonus:<br />
&#8220;NYPD Commissioner Keechant Sewell suddenly resigns, blindsiding City Hall: sources&#8221;&#8212;<br />
<a href="https://nypost.com/2023/06/12/nypd-commissioner-keechant-sewell-resigning-after-nearly-a-year-and-a-half-on-the-job/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://nypost.com/2023/06/12/nypd-commissioner-keechant-sewell-resigning-after-nearly-a-year-and-a-half-on-the-job/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 05:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Snow  &#062; in re &quot;UFOs and what Air Force Whistleblower David Grusch says about them&quot; -- I&#039;ve been following along and have enjoyed your reports, but I think this claim may be a bridge too far.

https://notthebee.com/article/whistleblower-claims-downed-ufo-recovered-by-us-military-distorted-space-and-time-and-was-larger-inside-than-out]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Snow  &gt; in re &#8220;UFOs and what Air Force Whistleblower David Grusch says about them&#8221; &#8212; I&#8217;ve been following along and have enjoyed your reports, but I think this claim may be a bridge too far.</p>
<p><a href="https://notthebee.com/article/whistleblower-claims-downed-ufo-recovered-by-us-military-distorted-space-and-time-and-was-larger-inside-than-out" rel="nofollow ugc">https://notthebee.com/article/whistleblower-claims-downed-ufo-recovered-by-us-military-distorted-space-and-time-and-was-larger-inside-than-out</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian E		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 05:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Col. Daniel Davis thinks the Kakhovka Dam failure was a result of weakening from Ukraine attacks last November.

His reasoning is that both Ukraine and Russian military were impacted by the breach. He doubts it was from Russian actions since Crimea depends on the Dnipro River for drinking water. At some point when the riverbed dries out it will favor Ukrainian advances further north-- something that Russia will be unprepared for.

&lt;b&gt;Ukraine Damaged Kakhovka Dam In PREVIOUS Attack; Why NATO Membership Should Be OFF THE TABLE&lt;/b&gt;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldS6fIrv4Wk]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Col. Daniel Davis thinks the Kakhovka Dam failure was a result of weakening from Ukraine attacks last November.</p>
<p>His reasoning is that both Ukraine and Russian military were impacted by the breach. He doubts it was from Russian actions since Crimea depends on the Dnipro River for drinking water. At some point when the riverbed dries out it will favor Ukrainian advances further north&#8211; something that Russia will be unprepared for.</p>
<p><b>Ukraine Damaged Kakhovka Dam In PREVIOUS Attack; Why NATO Membership Should Be OFF THE TABLE</b></p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldS6fIrv4Wk" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldS6fIrv4Wk</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Well, Kurt Schlichter has an ominous column out today.&lt;/i&gt;

physicsguy:

Wretchard had a similarly disturbing tweet thread:
____________________________

&lt;i&gt;The American political division now seems permanent. It got worse with time and the odds of now avoiding conflict of some sort are low.

--wretchardthecat (Richard Fernandez)
https://twitter.com/wretchardthecat/status/1667018620826943488&lt;/i&gt;
____________________________

I have read Fernandez a long time and I respect him. I am the declared optimist here, but I do read both sides and ponder. 

It&#039;s definitely a bad sign.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Well, Kurt Schlichter has an ominous column out today.</i></p>
<p>physicsguy:</p>
<p>Wretchard had a similarly disturbing tweet thread:<br />
____________________________</p>
<p><i>The American political division now seems permanent. It got worse with time and the odds of now avoiding conflict of some sort are low.</p>
<p>&#8211;wretchardthecat (Richard Fernandez)<br />
<a href="https://twitter.com/wretchardthecat/status/1667018620826943488" rel="nofollow ugc">https://twitter.com/wretchardthecat/status/1667018620826943488</a></i><br />
____________________________</p>
<p>I have read Fernandez a long time and I respect him. I am the declared optimist here, but I do read both sides and ponder. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s definitely a bad sign.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jamie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683862</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2023 01:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683862</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree that the laundry machine is dual purpose - it washes and dries. I first encountered one of these 30 years ago in London and it sucked, but I assume they&#039;re better now.

I agree that making a bed that is flush against 3 walls is a huge pain (see: RV), plus feels claustrophobic, but whatayagonnado?

I agree that the slope up against the stone exterior wall will cause issues if not expensively mitigated!

I disagree with putting a bathroom next to the dining room table! Probably this is also a whatayagonnado thing, but... ick.

When my mother-in-law was once staying with us for an extended period, I spent a lot of time sketching tiny houses. I didn&#039;t make any mental connections between those two things until later (and btw, I love her very much, but it was a long and stressful visit under bad circumstances).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the laundry machine is dual purpose &#8211; it washes and dries. I first encountered one of these 30 years ago in London and it sucked, but I assume they&#8217;re better now.</p>
<p>I agree that making a bed that is flush against 3 walls is a huge pain (see: RV), plus feels claustrophobic, but whatayagonnado?</p>
<p>I agree that the slope up against the stone exterior wall will cause issues if not expensively mitigated!</p>
<p>I disagree with putting a bathroom next to the dining room table! Probably this is also a whatayagonnado thing, but&#8230; ick.</p>
<p>When my mother-in-law was once staying with us for an extended period, I spent a lot of time sketching tiny houses. I didn&#8217;t make any mental connections between those two things until later (and btw, I love her very much, but it was a long and stressful visit under bad circumstances).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683806</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2023 20:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683806</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On having a clothes dryer: I have a folding drying rack which I use fairly often, especially in winter, when the house air is dry and more moisture is welcome. I&#039;ll often hang a load on the rack to get halfway or nearly all dry, and then put the items in the dryer for a short while to finish the drying and give them a soft unwrinkled finish.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On having a clothes dryer: I have a folding drying rack which I use fairly often, especially in winter, when the house air is dry and more moisture is welcome. I&#8217;ll often hang a load on the rack to get halfway or nearly all dry, and then put the items in the dryer for a short while to finish the drying and give them a soft unwrinkled finish.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frederick		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683802</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frederick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2023 20:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683802</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The tiny house was not actually renovated and the architect narrating the video has never even laid eyes on the property. Everything you saw in the video about the interiors and whatnot is CGI. She&#039;s showing what her redesign of the property might be but she has not actually done anything or even visited it, she&#039;s just working from drawings.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tiny house was not actually renovated and the architect narrating the video has never even laid eyes on the property. Everything you saw in the video about the interiors and whatnot is CGI. She&#8217;s showing what her redesign of the property might be but she has not actually done anything or even visited it, she&#8217;s just working from drawings.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TR		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/06/12/open-thread-6-12-23/#comment-2683796</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2023 19:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=126490#comment-2683796</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Trump campaign has been telling people the fake idea of:

  [Trump could have been elected President in 2020, if Vice President Pence had:

1) rejected the election&#039;s vote count that was done by the Congress, and then 

2) VP Pence [could then] send the election back to the individual, U.S. States, and have the States vote in Trump as President].

  This is impossible.

 Trump&#039;s election team has said: The 12th Amendment, of the US Constitution says: The Vice President has the power to reject [a result of a presidential election].

 Here is a link to [the text of the 12th Amendment]:


 https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-12/

 If you read the 12th Amendment, 
you will find:

The 12th Amendment does not give the Vice President the power to:  

1) reject the votes of a Presidential election, and 2) it doesn&#039;t let the Vice President send the election back to The U.S. States, to have the States [redo their voting for a presidential candidate(s)].

 VP Pence never had those powers.

  The people who say that VP Pence had those powers, are giving the public fake information.

 (The link above is to A US, Federal site on The Constitution, + the site shows you the whole text of the 12th Amendment.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Trump campaign has been telling people the fake idea of:</p>
<p>  [Trump could have been elected President in 2020, if Vice President Pence had:</p>
<p>1) rejected the election&#8217;s vote count that was done by the Congress, and then </p>
<p>2) VP Pence [could then] send the election back to the individual, U.S. States, and have the States vote in Trump as President].</p>
<p>  This is impossible.</p>
<p> Trump&#8217;s election team has said: The 12th Amendment, of the US Constitution says: The Vice President has the power to reject [a result of a presidential election].</p>
<p> Here is a link to [the text of the 12th Amendment]:</p>
<p> <a href="https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-12/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-12/</a></p>
<p> If you read the 12th Amendment,<br />
you will find:</p>
<p>The 12th Amendment does not give the Vice President the power to:  </p>
<p>1) reject the votes of a Presidential election, and 2) it doesn&#8217;t let the Vice President send the election back to The U.S. States, to have the States [redo their voting for a presidential candidate(s)].</p>
<p> VP Pence never had those powers.</p>
<p>  The people who say that VP Pence had those powers, are giving the public fake information.</p>
<p> (The link above is to A US, Federal site on The Constitution, + the site shows you the whole text of the 12th Amendment.)</p>
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