I must say that the first Harry Potter book in French is surprisingly good preparation for reading French poetry circa early 20th C.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

In my search for Compelling, Comprehensible Input a la Steve Krashen, I’ve been reconnecting to the French poets I once read in English but now want to read in the original French.

Yesterday I received a bilingual volume of Pierre Reverdy, a French poet from the first half of the 20th C. whom I liked, mostly on the recommendation of Frank O’Hara, an American poet I loved.

There wasn’t much Reverdy translated in those days. But now I’ve got a whole book of Reverdy in French and English. Suddenly I realize OMG how much O’Hara modeled himself on Reverdy.

I’m not disillusioned. As the Hollywood proverb goes (I think) “Nobody comes from nowhere.”
_____________________

….My heart is in my
pocket, it is Poems by Pierre Reverdy.

–Frank O’Hara, “A Step Away From Them”

With that video I did drop you into the middle of the language acquisition wars. I’ve been living in that war for three months now, so DFNS was on point for me.

I can see how it could be confusing for you. I had hoped the pro vs. con between DFNS and the opponent he was rebutting might be useful.

However, if you’re not clear on what Krashen means by input and output, it’s hard to have a discussion about “Comprehensible Input.”

I’d say your best bet would be to go right to the source. Here’s one of his shorter interviews (Krashen is an academic) with my language learning role model, Steve Kaufmann:

–Steve Kaufmann, “Stephen Krashen, an Interview.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqVhgSvwWYk

Of course, that’s only if you are interested.

I am currently obsessed and I don’t understand why everybody isn’t learning another language NOW and therefore deeply concerned with these issues. 🙂

I do appreciate your larger, thoughtful comments.

Fox News, Dominion Reach $787 Million Settlement in Defamation Lawsuit

neo suspected that Damar Hamlin’s heart stoppage was the result of comotio cardis. As called out in your link.

But, but, but the vaccination!

Free on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWkepoLUZfs&t=212s

So I tried to get through another DFNS video. I think I’m using “input” and “output” backwards. “Output” means “speaking?”

Anyway, it seems likely to me that we humans evolved to speak and listen hundreds of thousands of years before ever devising written language, books, tape recorders or video streaming. So, why wouldn’t the method we evolved to acquire language work when attempting to acquire a second language?

And don’t we see this happen around us all day long with children and many immigrants? My in-laws were intelligent people. Spoke German very well and English well. I know they had no idea what the word “adverb” meant in English, but they tended to use adverbs properly when speaking. My father’s parents spoke English well. Born and raised here. I’m pretty sure they also did not know what the word “adverb” meant, but they also used them properly when speaking. My grandchildren can’t yet read (although one is on her way) and don’t know the parts of speech, yet they generally speak with correct grammar.

Why would any of this be different just because a foreign language is not one’s 1st language?

I tried to get through the video you shared on language learning. For a guy who claims to be a genius at language acquisition*, I found DFNS to be a poor communicator. I couldn’t get through the video. I fast forwarded, trying to find relevant areas where he actually made comprehensible points, but that also bore no fruit. I apologize. I did try.

I’m still unsure I understand what you and DFNS mean by “input” and “output.” I got through the section where he talks about learning Swedish by focusing on speaking and he progressed very quickly for 18 months then very little over the next 18 months. He was using that as an example of why input isn’t good, but I see it is a fantastic result! Who doesn’t want to progress quickly when learning a language? And, yes, you will stall after that quick progression once you achieve a certain level because you’re able to do what you need to do.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

My wife’s parents immigrated to America shortly before my wife was born and mostly spoke German at home. It was my wife’s first language but she was raised in America with English speaking friends and attended English speaking schools. When my wife speaks German in Germany, Germans assume she was born and raised there. When she speaks English in America, Americans assume she was born and raised here (which she was). She has no accent and speaks very comfortably in both languages. My wife did her senior year of High School in Germany and it was very difficult for her. Folks ask, “Why? German was your first language?” “Yes,” my wife replies, “but my parents never talked about photosynthesis.”

In other words, there is a lot of vocabulary in every language. It’s one thing to know how to book a hotel room, order dinner and tell a taxi driver where you need to go. It’s another thing to discuss politics, or art, or history, or chemistry, or sports…

So, yeah, DFNS is not going to progress past 18 months through speaking if he doesn’t change up whom he is speaking to and what he is speaking about. By the time my wife left her German school she could give a presentation on biology, or chemistry, or mathematics in German.

I think what DFNS may be referring to with the stagnation on “input” may be related to need. Once most of us get to a certain point of comprehension we’re comfortable. My English vocabulary on Civil War weaponry is poor. My English vocabulary on hip hop musicians and their songs is poor. These are not topics I converse in. I am not interested in them. My wife and I speak a fair amount of German with each other but it rarely goes beyond, perhaps 300 words. “What do you want to eat?” “I’m tired.” “Let’s leave.” “Should I ask what the price is?” “This salesperson annoys me, let’s go home.” If we didn’t read or watch German television or movies we would stagnate on those 300, or so words because they are the words that are useful for us. We don’t often talk about photosynthesis.

I also caught a part where he mentioned input does not work well when the foreign language’s grammar and structure differ greatly from one’s native language. I agree there. When working in countries with languages very different than English, especially different alphabetic letter, I found I had to learn some fundamentals before any speaking was possible.

*And I’m sure he is.

The problem with apologising for slavery

–“The problem with apologising for slavery”
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/04/18/the-problem-with-apologising-for-slavery/