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	Comments on: Is the future of affirmative action in doubt?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: stan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2023 02:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When Justice O&#039;Conner wrote that she hoped the Court would be able to rule that these policies were no longer necessary in a few decades, she demonstrated two things:

1) she had no idea how a constitution should work, and
2) no clue how political activist groups actually operate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Justice O&#8217;Conner wrote that she hoped the Court would be able to rule that these policies were no longer necessary in a few decades, she demonstrated two things:</p>
<p>1) she had no idea how a constitution should work, and<br />
2) no clue how political activist groups actually operate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LeClerc		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670086</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeClerc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 17:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670086</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I nominate Mensa member LeBron James to replace Miguel Cardona as Secretary of Education.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I nominate Mensa member LeBron James to replace Miguel Cardona as Secretary of Education.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670077</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 17:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I’m referring to the metaphysical commitment of the Declaration that “all men are created equal,” not to any scheme for forcing or even pushing equality of result.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not sure &#039;metaphysical&#039; is the right word.  

That &#039;all men are created equal&#039; is a statement that there are no orders of clergy, nobility, burgesses, and peasants here (an aspirational assertion, not a social reality in 1776).  Well, there were none in 1955.  There was a mess of legislation and administrative practice which treated blacks as a subaltern population.  The measures necessary to stop doing that were much less intrusive than the accretion of policy responses adopted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m referring to the metaphysical commitment of the Declaration that “all men are created equal,” not to any scheme for forcing or even pushing equality of result.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure &#8216;metaphysical&#8217; is the right word.  </p>
<p>That &#8216;all men are created equal&#8217; is a statement that there are no orders of clergy, nobility, burgesses, and peasants here (an aspirational assertion, not a social reality in 1776).  Well, there were none in 1955.  There was a mess of legislation and administrative practice which treated blacks as a subaltern population.  The measures necessary to stop doing that were much less intrusive than the accretion of policy responses adopted.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wendy Laubach		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670076</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy Laubach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 17:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670076</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Having endured job interviews in the 1970s, when employer representatives would say amazing things like &quot;Oh, I had to double-check your name, because from reading about your accomplishments, I assumed you must be a man,&quot; I understand the suspicion about getting a fair shake, and the resulting temptation to advocate for affirmative action.  Nevertheless, I always objected to it.  For one thing, I didn&#039;t relish having my own accomplishments degraded by the assumption that only AA got me into my position.  For another, I wanted to work with truly intelligent and talented people, not people who checked a box.

My old law firm was correct, I think, in stressing that we should recruit on the basis of qualities that were genuinely valuable in the workplace, and that we should root out the strong temptation to overrate the abilities of people who were similar to us in irrelevant ways--not just gender or skin color, but hobbies and politics.  I can live with extra effort at outreach in order to expand a talent pool that irrationally excluded people according to silly metrics or hollow badges of elitism.  In the end, though, I insist on an honest and rational appraisal of genuine ability, however we get there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having endured job interviews in the 1970s, when employer representatives would say amazing things like &#8220;Oh, I had to double-check your name, because from reading about your accomplishments, I assumed you must be a man,&#8221; I understand the suspicion about getting a fair shake, and the resulting temptation to advocate for affirmative action.  Nevertheless, I always objected to it.  For one thing, I didn&#8217;t relish having my own accomplishments degraded by the assumption that only AA got me into my position.  For another, I wanted to work with truly intelligent and talented people, not people who checked a box.</p>
<p>My old law firm was correct, I think, in stressing that we should recruit on the basis of qualities that were genuinely valuable in the workplace, and that we should root out the strong temptation to overrate the abilities of people who were similar to us in irrelevant ways&#8211;not just gender or skin color, but hobbies and politics.  I can live with extra effort at outreach in order to expand a talent pool that irrationally excluded people according to silly metrics or hollow badges of elitism.  In the end, though, I insist on an honest and rational appraisal of genuine ability, however we get there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670075</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 17:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670075</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Any and all public or private institutions invested in that unconstitutional theology/ideology, will find workarounds.&lt;/i&gt;

So, which workarounds are unacceptable and fought?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Any and all public or private institutions invested in that unconstitutional theology/ideology, will find workarounds.</i></p>
<p>So, which workarounds are unacceptable and fought?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mac		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670074</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 17:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670074</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;There was no ‘national commitment to equality’. Social engineering schemes have never had much purchase...&quot;

I&#039;m referring to the metaphysical commitment of the Declaration that &quot;all men are created equal,&quot; not to any scheme for forcing or even pushing equality of result.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There was no ‘national commitment to equality’. Social engineering schemes have never had much purchase&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m referring to the metaphysical commitment of the Declaration that &#8220;all men are created equal,&#8221; not to any scheme for forcing or even pushing equality of result.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670070</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 17:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670070</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;our national commitment to equality.&lt;/i&gt;
==
There was no &#039;national commitment to equality&#039;.  Social engineering schemes have never had much purchase outside of the ludicrously influential liberal cadres in the judiciary, the school apparat, and social welfare bureaucracies.  See James Q. Wilson&#039;s research in 1966 on the chasm that separated the mentality of the Boston City Hall and the concerns of ordinary residents. 

 I suspect you can adduce evidence that some time around 1955 the majority of whites concluded that it was wrong to treat blacks as a permanent guest worker population, or as an inherent subaltern class, or as a collection of untouchables.  The only notion of &#039;equality&#039; incorporated in that sentiment is that everyone faces more or less the same rules in a given venue.  

(It was also around 1955 that Flannery O&#039;Connor concluded that too much mundane ugliness was required to maintain segregation, making the effort not worth the candle).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>our national commitment to equality.</i><br />
==<br />
There was no &#8216;national commitment to equality&#8217;.  Social engineering schemes have never had much purchase outside of the ludicrously influential liberal cadres in the judiciary, the school apparat, and social welfare bureaucracies.  See James Q. Wilson&#8217;s research in 1966 on the chasm that separated the mentality of the Boston City Hall and the concerns of ordinary residents. </p>
<p> I suspect you can adduce evidence that some time around 1955 the majority of whites concluded that it was wrong to treat blacks as a permanent guest worker population, or as an inherent subaltern class, or as a collection of untouchables.  The only notion of &#8216;equality&#8217; incorporated in that sentiment is that everyone faces more or less the same rules in a given venue.  </p>
<p>(It was also around 1955 that Flannery O&#8217;Connor concluded that too much mundane ugliness was required to maintain segregation, making the effort not worth the candle).</p>
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		<title>
		By: JohnTyer		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670067</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JohnTyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670067</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[At the risk of being a party pooper; it makes no difference if the SCOTUS strikes down affirmative action (AA). 
Any and all public or private institutions invested in that unconstitutional theology/ideology, will find workarounds.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of being a party pooper; it makes no difference if the SCOTUS strikes down affirmative action (AA).<br />
Any and all public or private institutions invested in that unconstitutional theology/ideology, will find workarounds.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mac		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670065</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124458#comment-2670065</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom Grey, replying to Neo: &#039;“Weren’t the problems obvious right from the start?”
Not in 1964...&#039;

Actually I think they were. I was in high school in 1964 and supported the civil rights legislation. But although I can&#039;t place it at any specific time after that, and I don&#039;t know when I first heard the term &quot;affirmative action,&quot; I think I saw immediately that it was a mistake. To put the best possible face on it, it was an over-correction in response to serious injustice. I think I saw it primarily as an obvious logical contradiction, however well-intentioned. The practical consequences maybe were not so obvious as they would become. 

Someone mentioned lower black IQ scores. John Derbyshire made a remark a while back to the effect that affirmative action, and its later and increasingly pathological development, is an attempt to square the circle of that very unwelcome fact and our national commitment to equality.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Grey, replying to Neo: &#8216;“Weren’t the problems obvious right from the start?”<br />
Not in 1964&#8230;&#8217;</p>
<p>Actually I think they were. I was in high school in 1964 and supported the civil rights legislation. But although I can&#8217;t place it at any specific time after that, and I don&#8217;t know when I first heard the term &#8220;affirmative action,&#8221; I think I saw immediately that it was a mistake. To put the best possible face on it, it was an over-correction in response to serious injustice. I think I saw it primarily as an obvious logical contradiction, however well-intentioned. The practical consequences maybe were not so obvious as they would become. </p>
<p>Someone mentioned lower black IQ scores. John Derbyshire made a remark a while back to the effect that affirmative action, and its later and increasingly pathological development, is an attempt to square the circle of that very unwelcome fact and our national commitment to equality.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/03/07/is-the-future-of-affirmative-action-in-doubt/#comment-2670053</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2023 15:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[It was always about retribution or balancing even though humphrey denied it]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was always about retribution or balancing even though humphrey denied it</p>
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