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	Comments on: Open thread 2/20/23	</title>
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	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667747</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 15:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667747</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan:

I meant to reply to your earlier OT comment, but suddenly it was a new day with new topics.

I&#039;ve no doubt the CCP has been a remorseless adversary up to all sorts of mischief for decades. Their goal is to become the dominant superpower. They have strategy and plans. They are not nice people. We are properly concerned.

However...so did the USSR. They did not have the technology, the economy, the agile leadership, the solid support of their peoples. The USSR is gone. Putin&#039;s Mini-me attempt to defeat the neighboring Ukraine has even hit a few snags.

Try this five-and-a-half minute Peter Zeihan video on China and Taiwan, hitting on China&#039;s weaknesses and popping the balloons ... er bubbles ... of what he considers the myths of China&#039;s threats.
________________________________

&lt;i&gt;China is the world&#039;s largest importer of [foodstuffs and energy] especially for the input necessary to grow food which means that if we put the sanctions on China that we put on Russia you would have a de-industrialization of the entire Chinese system in under a year.

--Peter Zeihan, &quot;Taiwan and China: War on the Horizon?&quot;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1hmvF8yiY8&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan:</p>
<p>I meant to reply to your earlier OT comment, but suddenly it was a new day with new topics.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve no doubt the CCP has been a remorseless adversary up to all sorts of mischief for decades. Their goal is to become the dominant superpower. They have strategy and plans. They are not nice people. We are properly concerned.</p>
<p>However&#8230;so did the USSR. They did not have the technology, the economy, the agile leadership, the solid support of their peoples. The USSR is gone. Putin&#8217;s Mini-me attempt to defeat the neighboring Ukraine has even hit a few snags.</p>
<p>Try this five-and-a-half minute Peter Zeihan video on China and Taiwan, hitting on China&#8217;s weaknesses and popping the balloons &#8230; er bubbles &#8230; of what he considers the myths of China&#8217;s threats.<br />
________________________________</p>
<p><i>China is the world&#8217;s largest importer of [foodstuffs and energy] especially for the input necessary to grow food which means that if we put the sanctions on China that we put on Russia you would have a de-industrialization of the entire Chinese system in under a year.</p>
<p>&#8211;Peter Zeihan, &#8220;Taiwan and China: War on the Horizon?&#8221;<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1hmvF8yiY8" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1hmvF8yiY8</a></i></p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667712</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 08:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667712</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Turtler &#062; &quot;And for all of the many, many, MANY problems with the USN and its allies we still dominate the seas in way the CCP does not and they know it. Which is why the CCP plans for a multi year long naval buildup. Which is a danger the USN and others badly need to adjust for and I fear for our shipbuilding capacity, but it is still a potent deterrent.&quot;

I would be interested in your reaction to J.E. Dyer&#039;s analysis of China&#039;s Long Game here:
https://theoptimisticconservative.wordpress.com/2023/02/12/china-goes-down-to-the-sea-putting-the-hybrid-in-warfare-bonus-update-bidens-excellent-balloon-adventure/

I posted some excerpts earlier here:
https://www.thenewneo.com/2023/02/17/open-thread-2-17-23/#comment-2667241
&lt;blockquote&gt;The balloons themselves are a side-show for the full three-ring circus that China is erecting around the world.

The thread (as usual) is very long, very detailed, and very scary.

Tl;dr: The Chinese have been building or buying access to shipping ports around the world, including major cities in the US; the purpose is to have a stash of shipping containers outfitted with missiles and other military goodies, ready to launch on command. That’s in addition to the economic infrastructure that the CCP is now controlling (farmland around our bases is almost a minor part of the plan).

The core of the argument is in the middle of the post; the balloons are at the end.
Some key grafs (an excerpt that is as long as most pundits’ normal posts):
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Turtler &gt; &#8220;And for all of the many, many, MANY problems with the USN and its allies we still dominate the seas in way the CCP does not and they know it. Which is why the CCP plans for a multi year long naval buildup. Which is a danger the USN and others badly need to adjust for and I fear for our shipbuilding capacity, but it is still a potent deterrent.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would be interested in your reaction to J.E. Dyer&#8217;s analysis of China&#8217;s Long Game here:<br />
<a href="https://theoptimisticconservative.wordpress.com/2023/02/12/china-goes-down-to-the-sea-putting-the-hybrid-in-warfare-bonus-update-bidens-excellent-balloon-adventure/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://theoptimisticconservative.wordpress.com/2023/02/12/china-goes-down-to-the-sea-putting-the-hybrid-in-warfare-bonus-update-bidens-excellent-balloon-adventure/</a></p>
<p>I posted some excerpts earlier here:<br />
<a href="https://www.thenewneo.com/2023/02/17/open-thread-2-17-23/#comment-2667241" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.thenewneo.com/2023/02/17/open-thread-2-17-23/#comment-2667241</a></p>
<blockquote><p>The balloons themselves are a side-show for the full three-ring circus that China is erecting around the world.</p>
<p>The thread (as usual) is very long, very detailed, and very scary.</p>
<p>Tl;dr: The Chinese have been building or buying access to shipping ports around the world, including major cities in the US; the purpose is to have a stash of shipping containers outfitted with missiles and other military goodies, ready to launch on command. That’s in addition to the economic infrastructure that the CCP is now controlling (farmland around our bases is almost a minor part of the plan).</p>
<p>The core of the argument is in the middle of the post; the balloons are at the end.<br />
Some key grafs (an excerpt that is as long as most pundits’ normal posts):
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667706</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 07:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667706</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[By design...
&quot;Is the Government About to Create a Massive Debt Crisis?&quot;---
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-02-18/government-about-create-massive-debt-crisis
Well, we&#039;ve all learned that the more crises there are---and the more massive they are---THE BETTER! (For whom, though?? Um...oh right. You&#039;re not supposed to ask that...)
To be sure, anyone paying attention might just believe that there already is a &quot;Massive Debt Crisis&quot;.
(I guess the question, therefore, is actually whether there will be an even Massiver Massive Debt Crisis&quot;. But as they say, &quot;To ask the question is to...&quot;.)
- - - - - - - - 
+ Bonus:
This little curiosity from the powers that be in a tiny little country that seems to have been punching far above its weight (at windmills)...
&#039;How New Zealand Dealt With &quot;Disinformation&quot;&#039;
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/how-new-zealand-dealt-disinformation

Short version: Anything we say is true, even if it changes: everything you say is false.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By design&#8230;<br />
&#8220;Is the Government About to Create a Massive Debt Crisis?&#8221;&#8212;<br />
<a href="https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-02-18/government-about-create-massive-debt-crisis" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-02-18/government-about-create-massive-debt-crisis</a><br />
Well, we&#8217;ve all learned that the more crises there are&#8212;and the more massive they are&#8212;THE BETTER! (For whom, though?? Um&#8230;oh right. You&#8217;re not supposed to ask that&#8230;)<br />
To be sure, anyone paying attention might just believe that there already is a &#8220;Massive Debt Crisis&#8221;.<br />
(I guess the question, therefore, is actually whether there will be an even Massiver Massive Debt Crisis&#8221;. But as they say, &#8220;To ask the question is to&#8230;&#8221;.)<br />
&#8211; &#8211; &#8211; &#8211; &#8211; &#8211; &#8211; &#8211;<br />
+ Bonus:<br />
This little curiosity from the powers that be in a tiny little country that seems to have been punching far above its weight (at windmills)&#8230;<br />
&#8216;How New Zealand Dealt With &#8220;Disinformation&#8221;&#8216;<br />
<a href="https://www.zerohedge.com/political/how-new-zealand-dealt-disinformation" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.zerohedge.com/political/how-new-zealand-dealt-disinformation</a></p>
<p>Short version: Anything we say is true, even if it changes: everything you say is false.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667702</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 06:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667702</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[RE sdferr — and Dave Reaboi — Thank you!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE sdferr — and Dave Reaboi — Thank you!</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667701</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 06:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667701</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Listening to more Johnny Hallyday, the &quot;French Elvis.&quot; The guy was a force. 

I adore the French chanteuse goddesses. But the French male singers have been a tougher sell. So many hit my ear and eye as unspeakable lounge lizards like the oil-oozy character Christopher Walken played on SNL in &quot;The Continental&quot; sketches.

But not Johnny. 

Patrick Swayze singing French. 

--Johnny Hallyday, &quot;Unchained Melody&quot; (French/English)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFUHDJGI_j0]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listening to more Johnny Hallyday, the &#8220;French Elvis.&#8221; The guy was a force. </p>
<p>I adore the French chanteuse goddesses. But the French male singers have been a tougher sell. So many hit my ear and eye as unspeakable lounge lizards like the oil-oozy character Christopher Walken played on SNL in &#8220;The Continental&#8221; sketches.</p>
<p>But not Johnny. </p>
<p>Patrick Swayze singing French. </p>
<p>&#8211;Johnny Hallyday, &#8220;Unchained Melody&#8221; (French/English)<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFUHDJGI_j0" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFUHDJGI_j0</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667700</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 06:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667700</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Freshly revealed J6 video — text reads “Nothing to see here

“Just a guy wearing an earpiece physically forcing people inside the Capitol on J6 &#038; a woman calling him out on it

“I’m sure he wasn’t a Federal Agent of any kind [/sarc intended]

“*This* is why they don’t want more video footage released”
https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1627783256287375361?cxt=HHwWgsCzpemPhpctAAAA]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freshly revealed J6 video — text reads “Nothing to see here</p>
<p>“Just a guy wearing an earpiece physically forcing people inside the Capitol on J6 &amp; a woman calling him out on it</p>
<p>“I’m sure he wasn’t a Federal Agent of any kind [/sarc intended]</p>
<p>“*This* is why they don’t want more video footage released”<br />
<a href="https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1627783256287375361?cxt=HHwWgsCzpemPhpctAAAA" rel="nofollow ugc">https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1627783256287375361?cxt=HHwWgsCzpemPhpctAAAA</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Turtler		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667699</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Turtler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 06:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667699</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@huxley

A fair point. I&#039;ll have to try that sometime.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@huxley</p>
<p>A fair point. I&#8217;ll have to try that sometime.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667698</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 06:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667698</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Turtler:

I do appreciate your thoroughness and clarity. 

Though sometimes I wouldn&#039;t mind a little TLC in the form of a TL;DR... :-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turtler:</p>
<p>I do appreciate your thoroughness and clarity. </p>
<p>Though sometimes I wouldn&#8217;t mind a little TLC in the form of a TL;DR&#8230; 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Turtler		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667694</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Turtler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 05:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667694</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Brian E

&lt;blockquote&gt; The Russia-Ukraine war is Europe’s problem. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I fear it is also our problem, albeit not as directly as it is for them.

&lt;blockquote&gt; Their response indicates they don’t think it’s an existential crisis. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Some of them certainly do. And even among most of the more dovish or typical EU types it has gotten a reaction.

&lt;blockquote&gt; It’s time for them to defend themselves. The debt to GDP ratio of the EU zone is 79%. Germany’s ratio is 70%. They can afford to pay for their own defense.

We, meanwhile, are swimming in debt. Every dollar we send Ukraine is borrowed. We will pay interest for the rest of our lives, our children’s lives and their children’s lives.

The interest on the Afghan war is already $500 billion. It will never be paid.

At some point someone must realize the parties over.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Agreed there, but I think that dovetails with the general insanity of modern finance and credit. War debt and other military spending is just a small portion of that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian E</p>
<blockquote><p> The Russia-Ukraine war is Europe’s problem. </p></blockquote>
<p>I fear it is also our problem, albeit not as directly as it is for them.</p>
<blockquote><p> Their response indicates they don’t think it’s an existential crisis. </p></blockquote>
<p>Some of them certainly do. And even among most of the more dovish or typical EU types it has gotten a reaction.</p>
<blockquote><p> It’s time for them to defend themselves. The debt to GDP ratio of the EU zone is 79%. Germany’s ratio is 70%. They can afford to pay for their own defense.</p>
<p>We, meanwhile, are swimming in debt. Every dollar we send Ukraine is borrowed. We will pay interest for the rest of our lives, our children’s lives and their children’s lives.</p>
<p>The interest on the Afghan war is already $500 billion. It will never be paid.</p>
<p>At some point someone must realize the parties over.</p></blockquote>
<p>Agreed there, but I think that dovetails with the general insanity of modern finance and credit. War debt and other military spending is just a small portion of that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Turtler		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/20/open-thread-2-20-23/#comment-2667693</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Turtler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 05:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124222#comment-2667693</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@om

&lt;blockquote&gt; That was a tome.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Indeed,

&lt;blockquote&gt; Brevity is the soul of wit,&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And I freely admit brevity is not a strong part for me.

But while brevity may be the soul of wit, length provides room for depth.

&lt;blockquote&gt; Yeah when you’ve lost North Korea and Venezuela it is truly worrisome&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True though we never had them. But the fact is that even the Kremlin is not entirely absent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@om</p>
<blockquote><p> That was a tome.</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed,</p>
<blockquote><p> Brevity is the soul of wit,</p></blockquote>
<p>And I freely admit brevity is not a strong part for me.</p>
<p>But while brevity may be the soul of wit, length provides room for depth.</p>
<blockquote><p> Yeah when you’ve lost North Korea and Venezuela it is truly worrisome</p></blockquote>
<p>True though we never had them. But the fact is that even the Kremlin is not entirely absent.</p>
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