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	Comments on: The Ohio train derailment	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2667254</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2023 13:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2667254</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kate.  Thanks for the info.  I recall during Katrina that FEMA was faulted for not being in there rescuing people or something.   Not their job, but a republican was president.
I can see NS making errors--which is to say getting caught trying to skate--but the problem is trusting the EPA and other institutions.

I don&#039;t do trains.   Not my thing.  But from what I can tell, including surveillance footage showing the train going along with at least one car throwing--sparks or chunks of molten metal--all along its length, not sure what a braking system would do.  About as relevant as the horn. A deflection.

As I mentioned in my amateur math, keeping an eye on the hot-box detectors doesn&#039;t seem to be a major stressor on operations.  

Presuming NS survives this, it will be interesting to see what kind of eye-wash they intro to make it look as if they are doing something.





kate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate.  Thanks for the info.  I recall during Katrina that FEMA was faulted for not being in there rescuing people or something.   Not their job, but a republican was president.<br />
I can see NS making errors&#8211;which is to say getting caught trying to skate&#8211;but the problem is trusting the EPA and other institutions.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t do trains.   Not my thing.  But from what I can tell, including surveillance footage showing the train going along with at least one car throwing&#8211;sparks or chunks of molten metal&#8211;all along its length, not sure what a braking system would do.  About as relevant as the horn. A deflection.</p>
<p>As I mentioned in my amateur math, keeping an eye on the hot-box detectors doesn&#8217;t seem to be a major stressor on operations.  </p>
<p>Presuming NS survives this, it will be interesting to see what kind of eye-wash they intro to make it look as if they are doing something.</p>
<p>kate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2667210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2023 01:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2667210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[FEMA apparently told the town that other agencies are better prepared to deal with air and water contamination. FEMA deals with houses destroyed or flooded. The EPA director was there; said they&#039;ve tested 480 houses for inside air, checking for all the chemicals which were released from the train, and they say it&#039;s now safe. He said he trusts water testing from the states of Ohio and PA, and agrees that owners with wells yet to be tested should use bottled water until tests say it&#039;s safe. According to Best of the Web at the WSJ today, he sounded sensible and credible. It&#039;s Norfolk Southern which appears to be blowing this response. They &quot;accidentally&quot; asked people to sign papers waiving liability before testing water, and when this was reported, said they wouldn&#039;t enforce those waivers.

Apparently the electronic braking system whose repeal Buttigieg tried to use to blame Trump would not have applied to this train anyhow. It was for trains carrying  all dangerous chemicals. This train had only a few cars. Reports are also that NS has increased train lengths by 20% and cut staff by 40%. I&#039;m guessing we&#039;ll find there are maintenance problems.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FEMA apparently told the town that other agencies are better prepared to deal with air and water contamination. FEMA deals with houses destroyed or flooded. The EPA director was there; said they&#8217;ve tested 480 houses for inside air, checking for all the chemicals which were released from the train, and they say it&#8217;s now safe. He said he trusts water testing from the states of Ohio and PA, and agrees that owners with wells yet to be tested should use bottled water until tests say it&#8217;s safe. According to Best of the Web at the WSJ today, he sounded sensible and credible. It&#8217;s Norfolk Southern which appears to be blowing this response. They &#8220;accidentally&#8221; asked people to sign papers waiving liability before testing water, and when this was reported, said they wouldn&#8217;t enforce those waivers.</p>
<p>Apparently the electronic braking system whose repeal Buttigieg tried to use to blame Trump would not have applied to this train anyhow. It was for trains carrying  all dangerous chemicals. This train had only a few cars. Reports are also that NS has increased train lengths by 20% and cut staff by 40%. I&#8217;m guessing we&#8217;ll find there are maintenance problems.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2667206</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2023 01:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2667206</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It appears Norfolk Southern operates just short of 20,000 miles of road.

Using the aforementioned convertible pickup trucks going at--arbitrarily--25mph for eight hours, that&#039;s 200 miles out and four hours back on the highway.  And that&#039;s 100 trips.

Call it two trips a week, you cover the entire trackage once a year.  Presuming some high school STEM class can rig up an infrared source the crew can shoot at the sensors as they pass and listen for the automatic alarm, 

So, presume for administrative convenience, you have twenty sectors of a thousand miles each.  Each sector needs....four trips.  Is that satisfactory for a year&#039;s safety standards?

I keep going over this.  It&#039;s so de minimis I feel I&#039;m missing something.  If I&#039;ve dropped a zero someplace, each sector needs one trip a week....  Is that such a big deal?

Or, maybe a trip a month for each 250 mile stretch.  That&#039;s about one a week per sector, fifty a year.  Fifty days not doing something else out of a year.   What would that cost?

I don&#039;t know if N/S has the kind of money such presumed negligence deserves.

Is it true FEMA told the town to forget it?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears Norfolk Southern operates just short of 20,000 miles of road.</p>
<p>Using the aforementioned convertible pickup trucks going at&#8211;arbitrarily&#8211;25mph for eight hours, that&#8217;s 200 miles out and four hours back on the highway.  And that&#8217;s 100 trips.</p>
<p>Call it two trips a week, you cover the entire trackage once a year.  Presuming some high school STEM class can rig up an infrared source the crew can shoot at the sensors as they pass and listen for the automatic alarm, </p>
<p>So, presume for administrative convenience, you have twenty sectors of a thousand miles each.  Each sector needs&#8230;.four trips.  Is that satisfactory for a year&#8217;s safety standards?</p>
<p>I keep going over this.  It&#8217;s so de minimis I feel I&#8217;m missing something.  If I&#8217;ve dropped a zero someplace, each sector needs one trip a week&#8230;.  Is that such a big deal?</p>
<p>Or, maybe a trip a month for each 250 mile stretch.  That&#8217;s about one a week per sector, fifty a year.  Fifty days not doing something else out of a year.   What would that cost?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if N/S has the kind of money such presumed negligence deserves.</p>
<p>Is it true FEMA told the town to forget it?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill West		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2667085</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill West]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2023 07:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2667085</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[At Legal Insurrection they asked, “Is this Joe’s Katrina?”

Maybe so, but it’s certainly Norfolk Southern’s Bhopal. A textbook example of bad public relations. The gold standard was McNeil Pharmaceuticals’ handling of the Tylenol tampering. They responded immediately, owned it, told the truth, had a plan and laid it out in public. 

The fact that the residents even need a Townhall is a disgrace. The fact that the Townhall revealed nothing is a disaster.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At Legal Insurrection they asked, “Is this Joe’s Katrina?”</p>
<p>Maybe so, but it’s certainly Norfolk Southern’s Bhopal. A textbook example of bad public relations. The gold standard was McNeil Pharmaceuticals’ handling of the Tylenol tampering. They responded immediately, owned it, told the truth, had a plan and laid it out in public. </p>
<p>The fact that the residents even need a Townhall is a disgrace. The fact that the Townhall revealed nothing is a disaster.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2667021</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2023 00:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2667021</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om

I get that. 
 I guess my point is...they weren&#039;t saving big bucks, if in fact they were dissing maintenance.  They were saving coffee money.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om</p>
<p>I get that.<br />
 I guess my point is&#8230;they weren&#8217;t saving big bucks, if in fact they were dissing maintenance.  They were saving coffee money.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2667015</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2023 00:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2667015</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey:

The union has an interest in safety, in union headcount, and in protecting union members.  What are the facts, that&#039;s what the NTSB will have to determine.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Aubrey:</p>
<p>The union has an interest in safety, in union headcount, and in protecting union members.  What are the facts, that&#8217;s what the NTSB will have to determine.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2667011</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2023 00:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2667011</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Barry.   You have got to be kidding.  Please.   No entity run by humans can be that stupid.
I wonder what kind of bonus the guy who suggested that got.  Hope the check&#039;s cleared.  Or maybe upper is shrugging, &quot;You pays your money, you takes your chances&quot; and is hiring some top end shysters.
I note a local attorney is advising the folks not to take the first offer of settlement.
Good lord.  
You know, an infra-red detector which isn&#039;t required to see in other frequencies, nor move, nor swivel, nor make judgment calls, and which has what amounts to an of/off switch for an alarm signal can&#039;t be that expensive to maintain, compared to other expenses.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry.   You have got to be kidding.  Please.   No entity run by humans can be that stupid.<br />
I wonder what kind of bonus the guy who suggested that got.  Hope the check&#8217;s cleared.  Or maybe upper is shrugging, &#8220;You pays your money, you takes your chances&#8221; and is hiring some top end shysters.<br />
I note a local attorney is advising the folks not to take the first offer of settlement.<br />
Good lord.<br />
You know, an infra-red detector which isn&#8217;t required to see in other frequencies, nor move, nor swivel, nor make judgment calls, and which has what amounts to an of/off switch for an alarm signal can&#8217;t be that expensive to maintain, compared to other expenses.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2666952</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2023 20:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2666952</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just posted this on the new &quot;Open Thread&quot; but I guess it&#039;s pertinent here, too:

Additional background on the train disaster in Ohio:
“Norfolk Southern Eliminated Key Maintenance Role In Derailment Region, Union Says”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-derailment-region-union-says
Apparently, the railroad company wanted to save a few bucks…
Key grafs:
“[A] union of rail workers has questioned declining maintenance standards following the Feb. 3 Norfolk Southern derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, which forced the evacuation of the 5,000-person town earlier this month.
“A device that can play a role in preventing derailments is the wayside hot-box detector. It uses infrared sensors to detect bearings, axles or other components of a rail car that are overheating, then uses radio signals to flag rail crews of any overheated components…
“…Wayside hot-box detectors — also called “hot boxes” — are typically placed every 25 miles along a railroad…. Their use has contributed to a 59% decrease in train accidents caused by axle- and bearing-related factors since 1990….
“Declining head counts have led to these mechanisms receiving less preventative maintenance, according to an official from the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen union.
“The [Federal Railroad Adminstration (FRA)] has no regulations requiring the use or maintenance of hot boxes….”

…all of which, according to Sec. Pete, pins the blame squarely on Donald Trump….
Figures…]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just posted this on the new &#8220;Open Thread&#8221; but I guess it&#8217;s pertinent here, too:</p>
<p>Additional background on the train disaster in Ohio:<br />
“Norfolk Southern Eliminated Key Maintenance Role In Derailment Region, Union Says”—<br />
<a href="https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-derailment-region-union-says" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-derailment-region-union-says</a><br />
Apparently, the railroad company wanted to save a few bucks…<br />
Key grafs:<br />
“[A] union of rail workers has questioned declining maintenance standards following the Feb. 3 Norfolk Southern derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, which forced the evacuation of the 5,000-person town earlier this month.<br />
“A device that can play a role in preventing derailments is the wayside hot-box detector. It uses infrared sensors to detect bearings, axles or other components of a rail car that are overheating, then uses radio signals to flag rail crews of any overheated components…<br />
“…Wayside hot-box detectors — also called “hot boxes” — are typically placed every 25 miles along a railroad…. Their use has contributed to a 59% decrease in train accidents caused by axle- and bearing-related factors since 1990….<br />
“Declining head counts have led to these mechanisms receiving less preventative maintenance, according to an official from the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen union.<br />
“The [Federal Railroad Adminstration (FRA)] has no regulations requiring the use or maintenance of hot boxes….”</p>
<p>…all of which, according to Sec. Pete, pins the blame squarely on Donald Trump….<br />
Figures…</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2666949</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2023 20:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2666949</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s hard to calculate how many items Trans has to keep in working order.  Some have been in place for decades, possibly, years certainly.  And how many are not functioning?
I had not heard of &quot;wayside&quot; detectors for hot boxes in years, but I do recall hearing of them when I was considerably younger.
My experience, seeing Infantry companies changing commanders, is limited in space here.
Still, one might look for...how long since the Thus&#038;Such system has been fully inspected.  That long?  Check it out now?  How many do we have?  How many are not functioning?
That sort of thing should be automatic upon taking command, so to speak.

Trains carry enormous kinetic energy,  cargo aside.  Keeping them on the rails should be a priority whose failure is hugely, monstrously expensive, and will happen.  How about switches and wayside detectors be looked at and if not recently, right the freak now?

This is not some kind of genius-level figuring, but simple enough to think of, to order, and to insist on its completion.  And the institution has people skilled enough in diagnosing whatever they&#039;re looking at.  

You&#039;ve probably seen railroad companies&#039; pickup trucks which can change from road wheels to track wheels.  Pretty neat.  No reason any of them should be sitting still in daylight hours.

Even if Pete inherited a slack outfit, did he make any efforts to tighten it up?  He&#039;s had time to, at least, initiate measures.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to calculate how many items Trans has to keep in working order.  Some have been in place for decades, possibly, years certainly.  And how many are not functioning?<br />
I had not heard of &#8220;wayside&#8221; detectors for hot boxes in years, but I do recall hearing of them when I was considerably younger.<br />
My experience, seeing Infantry companies changing commanders, is limited in space here.<br />
Still, one might look for&#8230;how long since the Thus&amp;Such system has been fully inspected.  That long?  Check it out now?  How many do we have?  How many are not functioning?<br />
That sort of thing should be automatic upon taking command, so to speak.</p>
<p>Trains carry enormous kinetic energy,  cargo aside.  Keeping them on the rails should be a priority whose failure is hugely, monstrously expensive, and will happen.  How about switches and wayside detectors be looked at and if not recently, right the freak now?</p>
<p>This is not some kind of genius-level figuring, but simple enough to think of, to order, and to insist on its completion.  And the institution has people skilled enough in diagnosing whatever they&#8217;re looking at.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;ve probably seen railroad companies&#8217; pickup trucks which can change from road wheels to track wheels.  Pretty neat.  No reason any of them should be sitting still in daylight hours.</p>
<p>Even if Pete inherited a slack outfit, did he make any efforts to tighten it up?  He&#8217;s had time to, at least, initiate measures.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/the-ohio-train-derailment/#comment-2666811</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=124133#comment-2666811</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A variant on Neo&#039;s remark, at the LI post:
JohnC &#124; February 14, 2023 at 4:30 pm
thebradfordfile:
&quot;Pete Buttigieg is so bad at his job people actually know who the Sec. of Transportation is.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A variant on Neo&#8217;s remark, at the LI post:<br />
JohnC | February 14, 2023 at 4:30 pm<br />
thebradfordfile:<br />
&#8220;Pete Buttigieg is so bad at his job people actually know who the Sec. of Transportation is.&#8221;</p>
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