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	<title>
	Comments on: Jordan Peterson and Rod Dreher have a talk	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2022 04:03:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: MBunge		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2647002</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MBunge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2022 04:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2647002</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dreher is a great example of the “elite adjacent” phenomenon.  He’s never been a part of the elite.  He doesn’t even live in the NY/DC/LA environs any more.  He constantly complains and criticizes the establishment…

BUT THOSE ARE STILL THE PEOPLE WITH WHOM HE IDENTIFIES.

Dreher isn’t a grifter and he does actually care about and believe in things but his self-absorption and class loyalty render him incapable of ever not reflexively being anti-Trump.

Mike]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dreher is a great example of the “elite adjacent” phenomenon.  He’s never been a part of the elite.  He doesn’t even live in the NY/DC/LA environs any more.  He constantly complains and criticizes the establishment…</p>
<p>BUT THOSE ARE STILL THE PEOPLE WITH WHOM HE IDENTIFIES.</p>
<p>Dreher isn’t a grifter and he does actually care about and believe in things but his self-absorption and class loyalty render him incapable of ever not reflexively being anti-Trump.</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646971</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2022 01:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646971</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The latter does have a problem &#039;joining the side you&#039;re on&#039; and this isnt a recent thing he fell for the whole zimmerman subterfuge 10 years ago 

Of course dreher is moving to orbans hungary who makes trump look like q tabbby cat

Ill forgive petersens &#039;modest proposal&#039; about kavanaugh because that was a one off]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The latter does have a problem &#8216;joining the side you&#8217;re on&#8217; and this isnt a recent thing he fell for the whole zimmerman subterfuge 10 years ago </p>
<p>Of course dreher is moving to orbans hungary who makes trump look like q tabbby cat</p>
<p>Ill forgive petersens &#8216;modest proposal&#8217; about kavanaugh because that was a one off</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646969</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2022 01:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646969</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Joshua S:

&quot;Not ordinarily a big fan&quot; is a more tepid lack of enthusiasm than &quot;don&#039;t like.&quot;  I know that I&#039;ve read things he&#039;s written that strike me as wrong, but I don&#039;t read enough of him to be able to say off the top of my head exactly what they&#039;re been. However, for example, just looking at &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.theamericanconservative.com/trump-our-late-roman-moment/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;this recent piece of his&lt;/a&gt; from two months ago, several things immediately leap out at me.  One is that when the MAL raid happened, Dreher&#039;s immediate assumption was that the FBI/DOJ must have a really enormous justification for it.  I think that was extraordinarily naive of Dreher. Another is in the phrase, &quot;I think Donald Trump is capable of doing just about anything.&quot; Really, Rod?  Why?  And he doesn&#039;t mean &quot;anything&quot; in a good way. Or this, &quot;There was Russiagate, which turned out to be nothing, but consumed a massive amount of time and resources, and damaged the Trump administration. &quot;  &quot;Nothing&quot; is a euphemism for &quot;a massive propaganda lie concocted to destroy Trump.&quot;  He writes as though its effects were an accident.  In that same essay, he spouts the Tucker Carlsonish paleocon &quot;the Ukraine war is just a proxy war we&#039;re supporting for no good reason&quot; argument that I&#039;ve spent a lot of time arguing against on my blog.

Then a few weeks later, Dreher backtracks and decides that &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.theamericanconservative.com/tired-of-the-trump-drama/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;there were really good reasons for the raid&lt;/a&gt; and that Trump is at fault, based on what? Leaks, as far as I can see, and a lack of understanding of the law involved - as well as Dreher&#039;s own dislike of Trump. 

Speaking of the latter, we have &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.theamericanconservative.com/donald-trump-eats-prays-hates-prayer-breakfast/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;this sort of thing from Dreher&lt;/a&gt;, which was written when Trump said mean things at a prayer breakfast:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Trump is a small, ugly, godless and graceless man. This is not news — but don’t you start with the whiny “but you’re still going to vote for him” stuff again. Maybe I will, but that’s because I would rather have a president who is all those things, but who in the end does what he can to protect the lives of the unborn than a president who is personally decent...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I could say a lot about that, but I&#039;ll just limit it right now to the fact that I don&#039;t think Dreher should be commenting on whether another person who professes to have religious faith actually has it or not, and also did Dreher really think that Trump&#039;s 2020 opponent would have a chance of being &quot;personally decent&quot;?  If not, why would he hesitate to vote for Trump in 2020?

Nope, I&#039;m not a Dreher fan.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua S:</p>
<p>&#8220;Not ordinarily a big fan&#8221; is a more tepid lack of enthusiasm than &#8220;don&#8217;t like.&#8221;  I know that I&#8217;ve read things he&#8217;s written that strike me as wrong, but I don&#8217;t read enough of him to be able to say off the top of my head exactly what they&#8217;re been. However, for example, just looking at <a href="https://www.theamericanconservative.com/trump-our-late-roman-moment/" rel="nofollow ugc">this recent piece of his</a> from two months ago, several things immediately leap out at me.  One is that when the MAL raid happened, Dreher&#8217;s immediate assumption was that the FBI/DOJ must have a really enormous justification for it.  I think that was extraordinarily naive of Dreher. Another is in the phrase, &#8220;I think Donald Trump is capable of doing just about anything.&#8221; Really, Rod?  Why?  And he doesn&#8217;t mean &#8220;anything&#8221; in a good way. Or this, &#8220;There was Russiagate, which turned out to be nothing, but consumed a massive amount of time and resources, and damaged the Trump administration. &#8221;  &#8220;Nothing&#8221; is a euphemism for &#8220;a massive propaganda lie concocted to destroy Trump.&#8221;  He writes as though its effects were an accident.  In that same essay, he spouts the Tucker Carlsonish paleocon &#8220;the Ukraine war is just a proxy war we&#8217;re supporting for no good reason&#8221; argument that I&#8217;ve spent a lot of time arguing against on my blog.</p>
<p>Then a few weeks later, Dreher backtracks and decides that <a href="https://www.theamericanconservative.com/tired-of-the-trump-drama/" rel="nofollow ugc">there were really good reasons for the raid</a> and that Trump is at fault, based on what? Leaks, as far as I can see, and a lack of understanding of the law involved &#8211; as well as Dreher&#8217;s own dislike of Trump. </p>
<p>Speaking of the latter, we have <a href="https://www.theamericanconservative.com/donald-trump-eats-prays-hates-prayer-breakfast/" rel="nofollow ugc">this sort of thing from Dreher</a>, which was written when Trump said mean things at a prayer breakfast:</p>
<blockquote><p>Trump is a small, ugly, godless and graceless man. This is not news — but don’t you start with the whiny “but you’re still going to vote for him” stuff again. Maybe I will, but that’s because I would rather have a president who is all those things, but who in the end does what he can to protect the lives of the unborn than a president who is personally decent&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>I could say a lot about that, but I&#8217;ll just limit it right now to the fact that I don&#8217;t think Dreher should be commenting on whether another person who professes to have religious faith actually has it or not, and also did Dreher really think that Trump&#8217;s 2020 opponent would have a chance of being &#8220;personally decent&#8221;?  If not, why would he hesitate to vote for Trump in 2020?</p>
<p>Nope, I&#8217;m not a Dreher fan.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646957</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2022 00:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646957</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Just curious: why don’t you like Dreher?&lt;/i&gt;

How long you got to listen?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Just curious: why don’t you like Dreher?</i></p>
<p>How long you got to listen?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Joshua S		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646956</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2022 00:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646956</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just curious: why don’t you like Dreher?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious: why don’t you like Dreher?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: MBunge		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MBunge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2022 18:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dreher is a lot like Andrew Sullivan.  His intelligence and insight is undermined by his terminal self-involvement.

Peterson is a genuine intellectual but I worry he thinks that means he can talk politics like he does the subjects about which he’s actually knowledgeable.    I’m also starting to suspect his emphasis on individualism blinds him to the importance of societal change.

MBunge]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dreher is a lot like Andrew Sullivan.  His intelligence and insight is undermined by his terminal self-involvement.</p>
<p>Peterson is a genuine intellectual but I worry he thinks that means he can talk politics like he does the subjects about which he’s actually knowledgeable.    I’m also starting to suspect his emphasis on individualism blinds him to the importance of societal change.</p>
<p>MBunge</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray Van Dune		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646850</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray Van Dune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2022 16:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646850</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I found most of the video stimulating, but I got irritated later on with Peterson&#039;s constant interruptions and mic-hogging. I thought he was supposed to be interviewing Dreher, not himself!

Ps. I don&#039;t waste my time with the &quot;thoughts&quot; of Obama, the Preener-in-Chief.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found most of the video stimulating, but I got irritated later on with Peterson&#8217;s constant interruptions and mic-hogging. I thought he was supposed to be interviewing Dreher, not himself!</p>
<p>Ps. I don&#8217;t waste my time with the &#8220;thoughts&#8221; of Obama, the Preener-in-Chief.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646827</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2022 09:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646827</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hear you, ma&#039;am.  I&#039;m recalling a reminder issued by Carly Fiorina to Hillary partisans, &quot;Activity is not accomplishment&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you, ma&#8217;am.  I&#8217;m recalling a reminder issued by Carly Fiorina to Hillary partisans, &#8220;Activity is not accomplishment&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646826</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2022 09:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646826</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;His most key element was pushing the lawsuit that forced citigroup to go in big with subprime by applying alinskyite organizing principles&lt;/i&gt;

He went &#039;of counsel&#039; at his law firm in 1996, and allowed his license to practice lapse in 2002.  It wasn&#039;t until 2003 that Freddie Mac slashed underwriting standards.  Nearly all of the underwater mortgages in 2009 were on loans extended after 2003.


&lt;i&gt;Frank davis had much greater influence on his youth than say his grandfather&lt;/i&gt;

Likely peer cultures were most influential. His granddad was a goof who&#039;d largely failed in his work life.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>His most key element was pushing the lawsuit that forced citigroup to go in big with subprime by applying alinskyite organizing principles</i></p>
<p>He went &#8216;of counsel&#8217; at his law firm in 1996, and allowed his license to practice lapse in 2002.  It wasn&#8217;t until 2003 that Freddie Mac slashed underwriting standards.  Nearly all of the underwater mortgages in 2009 were on loans extended after 2003.</p>
<p><i>Frank davis had much greater influence on his youth than say his grandfather</i></p>
<p>Likely peer cultures were most influential. His granddad was a goof who&#8217;d largely failed in his work life.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/10/07/jordan-peterson-and-rod-dreher-have-a-talk/#comment-2646817</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2022 04:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120849#comment-2646817</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Art Deco:

&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Education&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Obama&#039;s career as community organizer&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Two years after graduating from Columbia, Obama moved from New York to Chicago when he was hired as director of the Developing Communities Project, a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale on Chicago&#039;s South Side. He worked there as a community organizer from June 1985 to May 1988. He helped set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants&#039; rights organization in Altgeld Gardens. Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It probably helped him get into Harvard Law, too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art Deco:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Education" rel="nofollow ugc">Obama&#8217;s career as community organizer</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Two years after graduating from Columbia, Obama moved from New York to Chicago when he was hired as director of the Developing Communities Project, a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale on Chicago&#8217;s South Side. He worked there as a community organizer from June 1985 to May 1988. He helped set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants&#8217; rights organization in Altgeld Gardens. Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.</p></blockquote>
<p>It probably helped him get into Harvard Law, too.</p>
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