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	Comments on: Open thread 9/5/22	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2022 13:34:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Hubert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641468</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hubert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2022 13:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641468</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the link, Neo. He&#039;s still alive--amazing.

I grew up in a university town in New England and knew a number of German- or Austrian-Jewish professors who had similar experiences in the U.S. Army or the British Army during the war. One of them founded the design program at UMass:

http://scua.library.umass.edu/friedmann-arnold/

Another was a longtime professor in the political science department:

https://polsci.umass.edu/news/remembering-gerard-braunthal

They were family friends. Great guys with great stories. All gone now.

Huxley: thanks for bringing up Salinger&#039;s U.S. Army Counterintelligence Corps connection. Salinger picked up German and French while learning the family business in Europe before the war, hence his assignment to the CIC. As the Brits say, he had a nasty war. I believe he did another stint at the VA hospital in White River Junction, Vermont but may be misremembering.

Other CIC alumni:

J. Glenn Gray, author of &quot;The Warriors: Reflections on Men in Battle&quot;. Gray earned a PhD in Philosophy from Columbia in 1941. He was drafted almost immediately after graduating and was assigned to the CIC because of his knowledge of German. He was a professor of philosophy at Colorado College for many years. Wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Glenn_Gray

George Bailey, the Chicago-born author of &quot;Germans: The Biography of an Obsession&quot; and a journalist (or perhaps &quot;journalist&quot;) in Europe during the Cold War. I knew Bailey slightly in Munich in the 1980s. I assumed he was a spook or at least an asset. His book describes his wartime experiences in some detail. Since the CIC detachments followed immediately behind the frontline combat units (as Brombert said), they saw the worst of the carnage. Bailey&#039;s Wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bailey_(journalist)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Neo. He&#8217;s still alive&#8211;amazing.</p>
<p>I grew up in a university town in New England and knew a number of German- or Austrian-Jewish professors who had similar experiences in the U.S. Army or the British Army during the war. One of them founded the design program at UMass:</p>
<p><a href="http://scua.library.umass.edu/friedmann-arnold/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://scua.library.umass.edu/friedmann-arnold/</a></p>
<p>Another was a longtime professor in the political science department:</p>
<p><a href="https://polsci.umass.edu/news/remembering-gerard-braunthal" rel="nofollow ugc">https://polsci.umass.edu/news/remembering-gerard-braunthal</a></p>
<p>They were family friends. Great guys with great stories. All gone now.</p>
<p>Huxley: thanks for bringing up Salinger&#8217;s U.S. Army Counterintelligence Corps connection. Salinger picked up German and French while learning the family business in Europe before the war, hence his assignment to the CIC. As the Brits say, he had a nasty war. I believe he did another stint at the VA hospital in White River Junction, Vermont but may be misremembering.</p>
<p>Other CIC alumni:</p>
<p>J. Glenn Gray, author of &#8220;The Warriors: Reflections on Men in Battle&#8221;. Gray earned a PhD in Philosophy from Columbia in 1941. He was drafted almost immediately after graduating and was assigned to the CIC because of his knowledge of German. He was a professor of philosophy at Colorado College for many years. Wikipedia entry:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Glenn_Gray" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Glenn_Gray</a></p>
<p>George Bailey, the Chicago-born author of &#8220;Germans: The Biography of an Obsession&#8221; and a journalist (or perhaps &#8220;journalist&#8221;) in Europe during the Cold War. I knew Bailey slightly in Munich in the 1980s. I assumed he was a spook or at least an asset. His book describes his wartime experiences in some detail. Since the CIC detachments followed immediately behind the frontline combat units (as Brombert said), they saw the worst of the carnage. Bailey&#8217;s Wikipedia entry:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bailey_(journalist)" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bailey_(journalist)</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641439</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2022 05:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641439</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oops

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11183015/One-two-suspects-Canadian-stabbing-dead.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops</p>
<p><a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11183015/One-two-suspects-Canadian-stabbing-dead.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11183015/One-two-suspects-Canadian-stabbing-dead.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641413</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2022 00:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641413</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[the first link comes from this site,

https://www.energyintel.com/00000182-f9c0-d92d-a5b7-f9fcc5710000

that experience does put salinger&#039;s perspective in greater relief, william butterworth, the late web griffin, also was in the cic, but later in the war,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the first link comes from this site,</p>
<p><a href="https://www.energyintel.com/00000182-f9c0-d92d-a5b7-f9fcc5710000" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.energyintel.com/00000182-f9c0-d92d-a5b7-f9fcc5710000</a></p>
<p>that experience does put salinger&#8217;s perspective in greater relief, william butterworth, the late web griffin, also was in the cic, but later in the war,</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Brombert reminds me some of J.D. Salinger.

Salinger was a young American Jew, raised Jewish. After the World War II began, he volunteered for the Army, was rejected, but after Pearl Harbor Salinger was reclassified and joined the Army for training. He landed at Utah Beach on D-Day. 

Salinger fought for 299 days ... through the hedgerows, the Battle of the Bulge, the Battle of Hurtgen Forest, to the liberation of Paris and the liberation of a Dauchau sub-camp. Of the last he said, “You never really get the smell of burning flesh out of your nose entirely&quot;

After V-E Day Salinger had a nervous breakdown and recuperated at a hospital. His well-known story, &quot;For Esme -- With Love and  Squalor,&quot; was based on that period.

As a member of the Counter-Intellingence Corps Salinger spent several months interrogating Germans for denazification --  ferreting out ex-Nazis, collaborators and black-marketeers. 

As a writer Salinger never stopped writing, even during the war and its aftermath. He carried several chapters of &quot;The Catcher in the Rye&quot; with him into Europe and worked on that novel and other stories whenever he had spare time.

Salinger became generally famous for &quot;The Catcher in the Rye,&quot; based on  his novel of young adult innocence betrayed. But it was the grim, adult, post-WW II short stories which earned his reputation in the &quot;New Yorker.&quot;

I understand why conservatives tend to decry Salinger, but I don&#039;t think they quite understand how complex the man was, as well as being a brilliant writer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brombert reminds me some of J.D. Salinger.</p>
<p>Salinger was a young American Jew, raised Jewish. After the World War II began, he volunteered for the Army, was rejected, but after Pearl Harbor Salinger was reclassified and joined the Army for training. He landed at Utah Beach on D-Day. </p>
<p>Salinger fought for 299 days &#8230; through the hedgerows, the Battle of the Bulge, the Battle of Hurtgen Forest, to the liberation of Paris and the liberation of a Dauchau sub-camp. Of the last he said, “You never really get the smell of burning flesh out of your nose entirely&#8221;</p>
<p>After V-E Day Salinger had a nervous breakdown and recuperated at a hospital. His well-known story, &#8220;For Esme &#8212; With Love and  Squalor,&#8221; was based on that period.</p>
<p>As a member of the Counter-Intellingence Corps Salinger spent several months interrogating Germans for denazification &#8212;  ferreting out ex-Nazis, collaborators and black-marketeers. </p>
<p>As a writer Salinger never stopped writing, even during the war and its aftermath. He carried several chapters of &#8220;The Catcher in the Rye&#8221; with him into Europe and worked on that novel and other stories whenever he had spare time.</p>
<p>Salinger became generally famous for &#8220;The Catcher in the Rye,&#8221; based on  his novel of young adult innocence betrayed. But it was the grim, adult, post-WW II short stories which earned his reputation in the &#8220;New Yorker.&#8221;</p>
<p>I understand why conservatives tend to decry Salinger, but I don&#8217;t think they quite understand how complex the man was, as well as being a brilliant writer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641410</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641410</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Barry Meislin is quite right to draw our attention to energy issues in Europe courtesy of ZeroHedge links.

However, I would enjoy a bit more exposition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry Meislin is quite right to draw our attention to energy issues in Europe courtesy of ZeroHedge links.</p>
<p>However, I would enjoy a bit more exposition.</p>
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		<title>
		By: M Smith		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641407</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641407</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Victor Brombert was/is one of the big names in French literary studies.
One of my professors was, like Brombert, one of the &quot;Ritchie Boys,&quot; refugees who joined the US Army and interrogated German prisoners of war.  Another one of my professors had been a German prisoner of war.  I wonder how they got along.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victor Brombert was/is one of the big names in French literary studies.<br />
One of my professors was, like Brombert, one of the &#8220;Ritchie Boys,&#8221; refugees who joined the US Army and interrogated German prisoners of war.  Another one of my professors had been a German prisoner of war.  I wonder how they got along.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641403</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641403</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Downing an aircraft with small arms fire.  It happened in Vietnam, but very infrequently and was mostly small FAC airplanes like the Cessna O-1 Bird Dog that were hit. The VC would hang out in the jungle around the airbases. The aircraft were vulnerable when at low altitude during takeoff and landing.  Most pilots made steep approaches and take offs to minimize the danger.

My first landing at Than Son Nhut near Sagon was at night. It looked like many lighters being lit on the ground during approach. I asked the tower what the lights were.  &quot;Oh, that&#039;s just Charlie welcoming you to Vietnam,&quot; was the reply.   It was a tad scary, but they missed. :-)

The ARVN soldiers tried to sweep the perimeters regularly, but individual snipers could sneak in under darkness of night.
It was mostly a waste of ammo by Charlie. We found some bullet holes occasionally, but it takes great luck to place a rifle bullet in just the right place to down a military aircraft.  If a Ukrainian did it, all I can say is WOW - a once-in-a-lifetime shot!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Downing an aircraft with small arms fire.  It happened in Vietnam, but very infrequently and was mostly small FAC airplanes like the Cessna O-1 Bird Dog that were hit. The VC would hang out in the jungle around the airbases. The aircraft were vulnerable when at low altitude during takeoff and landing.  Most pilots made steep approaches and take offs to minimize the danger.</p>
<p>My first landing at Than Son Nhut near Sagon was at night. It looked like many lighters being lit on the ground during approach. I asked the tower what the lights were.  &#8220;Oh, that&#8217;s just Charlie welcoming you to Vietnam,&#8221; was the reply.   It was a tad scary, but they missed. 🙂</p>
<p>The ARVN soldiers tried to sweep the perimeters regularly, but individual snipers could sneak in under darkness of night.<br />
It was mostly a waste of ammo by Charlie. We found some bullet holes occasionally, but it takes great luck to place a rifle bullet in just the right place to down a military aircraft.  If a Ukrainian did it, all I can say is WOW &#8211; a once-in-a-lifetime shot!</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641397</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2022 22:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641397</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[William B. Allen critiques Brandon&#039;s vomitus

https://youtu.be/MYP-aAC-xrM


Impressive!

h/t powerlineblog.com]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William B. Allen critiques Brandon&#8217;s vomitus</p>
<p><a href="https://youtu.be/MYP-aAC-xrM" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/MYP-aAC-xrM</a></p>
<p>Impressive!</p>
<p>h/t powerlineblog.com</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2022 22:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641393</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[miguel   As Yeager said of the Foxbat&#039;s altitude and speed, &quot;You can&#039;t hurt anybody up there.&quot;
So if the 34 is doing something other than demo-ing the manufacturer&#039;s brochure to a potential sale, he might be vulnerable to ground fire.
When there are turbine blades going a bazillion rpm, it doesn&#039;t take much of a hit for them to tear themselves up.  Like a couple of sea gulls.  See &quot;Sully&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>miguel   As Yeager said of the Foxbat&#8217;s altitude and speed, &#8220;You can&#8217;t hurt anybody up there.&#8221;<br />
So if the 34 is doing something other than demo-ing the manufacturer&#8217;s brochure to a potential sale, he might be vulnerable to ground fire.<br />
When there are turbine blades going a bazillion rpm, it doesn&#8217;t take much of a hit for them to tear themselves up.  Like a couple of sea gulls.  See &#8220;Sully&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/09/05/open-thread-9-5-22/#comment-2641390</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=120254#comment-2641390</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Fog of war.  

In the Viet Nam war many US jets were downed by ground fire, &quot;golden BBs&quot; they were called.

Could have been a fienting spell.  Or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fog of war.  </p>
<p>In the Viet Nam war many US jets were downed by ground fire, &#8220;golden BBs&#8221; they were called.</p>
<p>Could have been a fienting spell.  Or not.</p>
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