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	Comments on: Open thread 8/12/22	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:09:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637635</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637635</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Richard - &quot;had only the book’s cover.&quot;
Sometimes that is indeed all you have; it&#039;s nice if there is time to &quot;read&quot; more, but we don&#039;t always get that opportunity. 

I think that there is a disconnect in communication regarding whether one is talking about a cover-aka-dust-jacket (clothes, hair-do, and other transitory accessories) and the actual cover of heavy cardboard, flimsy paper, leather, or some other durable material (feet, hands, general physique, facial expressions, and other features of the body).

Neither one is necessarily an accurate preview of the contents (character and ability), but that&#039;s all we have until we really get to know someone, and even then we can be wrong -- as witnessed by the number of people who have been cast off by their close friends, relatives, buddies, even spouses, because of voting Republican or (gasp!!) supporting President Trump -- an action that so often comes out of nowhere based on the characteristics they thought they knew.

And let&#039;s don&#039;t even talk about the bookshelves holding the sociopaths and such who deliberately flourish fake covers, inaccurate blurbs, and misleading text.

Ammo Grrrll&#039;s latest column has an interesting anecdote - sometimes the cover is just a &quot;new! improved! more fashionable!&quot; dust jacket, and the contents are pretty much the same
Speaking of her BFF  since middle school or before -- 
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/08/thoughts-from-the-ammo-line-441.php
&lt;blockquote&gt;We had the same sense of humor and were Mad Magazine fanatics. We were both crazy obsessive readers. And of an analytical bent. I’ll give you an example of our Sherlock Holmesian analysis at the tender age of 14:

Ladiehawke: So did you see Brian at his locker?

Susan: Yes! I casually lurked in the vicinity of his locker from 6:30 a.m. until class started at 8:00 and I ran into him!

Ladiehawke: Did he say hi?

Susan: Yes! Wait til you hear! He said hi AND today for the first time he also said, “Susan.” Do you think this means he likes me? “Hi, Susan!” my heart is still racing.

Ladiehawke: Hi AND your name? Oh, yeah, that’s a very good sign.

Susan: Do you think we will get married?

Ladiehawke: Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Maybe a date first?

Susan: Okay, you’re probably right. So who would you rather go out with – Dr. Kildare or Ben Casey? (This, of course was decades before we learned that Dr. Kildare was gay.)

And so on. We were all about “analysis.” In the same way the Climatistas are all about “Science,” just not the Scientific Method where you have reproducible results.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Skip forward 30, 40 years:
&lt;blockquote&gt;...once when I was working nightshift in a printshop, a couple of us went out for “lunch” at an Uptown Minneapolis Dunkin’ Donuts at 3:30 a.m. (Now, you’d be killed, but this was the early ’80’s). I was seated in an uncomfortable plastic booth (to discourage lingering), having a nutritious lunch of several donuts, some of them chocolate frosted for the magnesium. As it happened, I was facing in the opposite direction from the teenagers behind us. I could not see them but I could hear them. And I swear there was almost an exact replica of the above conversation about stalking the fella I fancied.

As I left, I turned to look at the young women – half expecting to see knee socks and penny loafers and white blouses and plaid skirts with a circle pin on the collar of the blouse. But they were Goths with all black clothing, Doc Marten boots, multiple piercings and white lipstick. And they STILL were mostly concerned about whether or not their current inamorata was interested in them. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Richard &#8211; &#8220;had only the book’s cover.&#8221;<br />
Sometimes that is indeed all you have; it&#8217;s nice if there is time to &#8220;read&#8221; more, but we don&#8217;t always get that opportunity. </p>
<p>I think that there is a disconnect in communication regarding whether one is talking about a cover-aka-dust-jacket (clothes, hair-do, and other transitory accessories) and the actual cover of heavy cardboard, flimsy paper, leather, or some other durable material (feet, hands, general physique, facial expressions, and other features of the body).</p>
<p>Neither one is necessarily an accurate preview of the contents (character and ability), but that&#8217;s all we have until we really get to know someone, and even then we can be wrong &#8212; as witnessed by the number of people who have been cast off by their close friends, relatives, buddies, even spouses, because of voting Republican or (gasp!!) supporting President Trump &#8212; an action that so often comes out of nowhere based on the characteristics they thought they knew.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s don&#8217;t even talk about the bookshelves holding the sociopaths and such who deliberately flourish fake covers, inaccurate blurbs, and misleading text.</p>
<p>Ammo Grrrll&#8217;s latest column has an interesting anecdote &#8211; sometimes the cover is just a &#8220;new! improved! more fashionable!&#8221; dust jacket, and the contents are pretty much the same<br />
Speaking of her BFF  since middle school or before &#8212;<br />
<a href="https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/08/thoughts-from-the-ammo-line-441.php" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/08/thoughts-from-the-ammo-line-441.php</a></p>
<blockquote><p>We had the same sense of humor and were Mad Magazine fanatics. We were both crazy obsessive readers. And of an analytical bent. I’ll give you an example of our Sherlock Holmesian analysis at the tender age of 14:</p>
<p>Ladiehawke: So did you see Brian at his locker?</p>
<p>Susan: Yes! I casually lurked in the vicinity of his locker from 6:30 a.m. until class started at 8:00 and I ran into him!</p>
<p>Ladiehawke: Did he say hi?</p>
<p>Susan: Yes! Wait til you hear! He said hi AND today for the first time he also said, “Susan.” Do you think this means he likes me? “Hi, Susan!” my heart is still racing.</p>
<p>Ladiehawke: Hi AND your name? Oh, yeah, that’s a very good sign.</p>
<p>Susan: Do you think we will get married?</p>
<p>Ladiehawke: Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Maybe a date first?</p>
<p>Susan: Okay, you’re probably right. So who would you rather go out with – Dr. Kildare or Ben Casey? (This, of course was decades before we learned that Dr. Kildare was gay.)</p>
<p>And so on. We were all about “analysis.” In the same way the Climatistas are all about “Science,” just not the Scientific Method where you have reproducible results.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Skip forward 30, 40 years:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;once when I was working nightshift in a printshop, a couple of us went out for “lunch” at an Uptown Minneapolis Dunkin’ Donuts at 3:30 a.m. (Now, you’d be killed, but this was the early ’80’s). I was seated in an uncomfortable plastic booth (to discourage lingering), having a nutritious lunch of several donuts, some of them chocolate frosted for the magnesium. As it happened, I was facing in the opposite direction from the teenagers behind us. I could not see them but I could hear them. And I swear there was almost an exact replica of the above conversation about stalking the fella I fancied.</p>
<p>As I left, I turned to look at the young women – half expecting to see knee socks and penny loafers and white blouses and plaid skirts with a circle pin on the collar of the blouse. But they were Goths with all black clothing, Doc Marten boots, multiple piercings and white lipstick. And they STILL were mostly concerned about whether or not their current inamorata was interested in them.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637572</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 10:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637572</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I started this with the intent of asking, in effect, are feet a tell when the stuff hits the fan and you have two seconds to decide who can help and who is going to have to be helped, or at least ignored until things settle down.
The flight attendants, trying to figure who they wanted near the cockpit door,  had only the book&#039;s cover.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started this with the intent of asking, in effect, are feet a tell when the stuff hits the fan and you have two seconds to decide who can help and who is going to have to be helped, or at least ignored until things settle down.<br />
The flight attendants, trying to figure who they wanted near the cockpit door,  had only the book&#8217;s cover.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637554</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 04:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637554</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ huxley &#062; &quot;But I try not to. I know how hard it is to be human and how little I truly know about the people I see and automatically judge.&quot;

I&#039;ve made mistakes about other people, and some have made mistakes about me.
On the other hand, sometimes what you see &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; what you get because of deliberate choices to make the cover represent the book.
But it&#039;s wise to read a few pages, or chapters, before deciding.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ huxley &gt; &#8220;But I try not to. I know how hard it is to be human and how little I truly know about the people I see and automatically judge.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve made mistakes about other people, and some have made mistakes about me.<br />
On the other hand, sometimes what you see <em>is</em> what you get because of deliberate choices to make the cover represent the book.<br />
But it&#8217;s wise to read a few pages, or chapters, before deciding.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637543</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 02:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637543</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, of course. And we all do it. My point is that it&#039;s best to be aware we are doing it and maybe think about that a bit. 

At my cafe I first showed up as a fat, old, brainy, white guy in glasses, who did college math for fun. I wore nice clothes, I drove a nice car, and it was obvious I had more money than most. Even worse, maybe, I voted for Trump. 

It took me a while to realize some of the regulars rather resented me. One of them even asked me to agree about how privileged I was because I was white. They had no idea about what I fought through, growing up with little support in a family of alcoholics, drug addicts, and suicides.

Now I&#039;m no longer fat and you can see the veins in my forearms from working out. I can tell the cafe crowd is confused. But I&#039;m still the same guy.

Perhaps twelve months ago you might have seen me and assumed I was just some fat loser.

God knows I judge people on their looks. But I try not to. I know how hard it is to be human and how little I truly know about the people I see and automatically judge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, of course. And we all do it. My point is that it&#8217;s best to be aware we are doing it and maybe think about that a bit. </p>
<p>At my cafe I first showed up as a fat, old, brainy, white guy in glasses, who did college math for fun. I wore nice clothes, I drove a nice car, and it was obvious I had more money than most. Even worse, maybe, I voted for Trump. </p>
<p>It took me a while to realize some of the regulars rather resented me. One of them even asked me to agree about how privileged I was because I was white. They had no idea about what I fought through, growing up with little support in a family of alcoholics, drug addicts, and suicides.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m no longer fat and you can see the veins in my forearms from working out. I can tell the cafe crowd is confused. But I&#8217;m still the same guy.</p>
<p>Perhaps twelve months ago you might have seen me and assumed I was just some fat loser.</p>
<p>God knows I judge people on their looks. But I try not to. I know how hard it is to be human and how little I truly know about the people I see and automatically judge.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637522</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 00:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637522</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I get that, but if all you have is a cover....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get that, but if all you have is a cover&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637472</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2022 19:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637472</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey:

I&#039;m aware &quot;Jaws&quot; is a work of fiction. Nonetheless, there are real-world lessons one may sometimes learn from fiction. Back in real life:

My favorite high school anecdote was the time Jimmy S. provoked one of the Stambaugh twins into a fight. Jimmy was the quarterback of our award-winning football team. He was damn talented. He went all-state. He had about 30 lbs of muscle on the small Stambaugh boy, who wasn&#039;t bright nor well-liked, but he was an inner-city kid from New Jersey.

Stambaugh took Jimmy S. to pieces, street-fighter style. That was a contingency Jimmy wasn&#039;t prepared for. The following Monday at school Jimmy was covered in cuts and bruises he didn&#039;t want to talk about.

Book. Cover. Don&#039;t judge. I suggest.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Aubrey:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m aware &#8220;Jaws&#8221; is a work of fiction. Nonetheless, there are real-world lessons one may sometimes learn from fiction. Back in real life:</p>
<p>My favorite high school anecdote was the time Jimmy S. provoked one of the Stambaugh twins into a fight. Jimmy was the quarterback of our award-winning football team. He was damn talented. He went all-state. He had about 30 lbs of muscle on the small Stambaugh boy, who wasn&#8217;t bright nor well-liked, but he was an inner-city kid from New Jersey.</p>
<p>Stambaugh took Jimmy S. to pieces, street-fighter style. That was a contingency Jimmy wasn&#8217;t prepared for. The following Monday at school Jimmy was covered in cuts and bruises he didn&#8217;t want to talk about.</p>
<p>Book. Cover. Don&#8217;t judge. I suggest.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637431</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637431</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Huxley
I read &quot;Jaws&quot; when if came out.  Liked it better than the movie for its sub plots and other characters plus some stuff on Megalodon.  But if it referenced the USS Indianapolis, I missed it.  Quint had something to say about that in the movie.
If I get my math right, sharks took more guys in that case than were KIA in the Spanish American War--not counting the usual multiple for disease.  That would give a guy an attitude.
Recently lost an elderly guy in our congregation who was detached from the ship before it departed.
I was reminded of the eminently boring, assigned reading &quot;An Enemy of The People&quot; by Ibsen where a tourist town depended on its hot springs for its revenues and the establishment was trying to hide the fact that the springs were full of cholera or typhoid or something.  In fact, I was so reminded that I wondered about plot-stealing plus the great white is more dramatic than a germ.
But Jaws was a story.  The author could make any character do anything he wanted.
My son graduated college in 2000.  Wanted to enlist after 9-11.  We&#039;d paid our dues in various time zones so I talked him out of it in the belief everything would be taken care of before he finished his training.  I&#039;m so smart....
He flew frequently on business and was almost always upgraded to first class.  The attendants picked him, I presume, not for his sense of humor but because he looked like he could be useful.  Six-five, benching three hundred, all conference linebacker or tight end--can never recall which--his senior year in high school.
An author could make the corresponding secretary of the chess club into a hero, but the f[ight attendants were in the real world.
So, subliminally or liminally, one looks for tells.
Does that include feet?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huxley<br />
I read &#8220;Jaws&#8221; when if came out.  Liked it better than the movie for its sub plots and other characters plus some stuff on Megalodon.  But if it referenced the USS Indianapolis, I missed it.  Quint had something to say about that in the movie.<br />
If I get my math right, sharks took more guys in that case than were KIA in the Spanish American War&#8211;not counting the usual multiple for disease.  That would give a guy an attitude.<br />
Recently lost an elderly guy in our congregation who was detached from the ship before it departed.<br />
I was reminded of the eminently boring, assigned reading &#8220;An Enemy of The People&#8221; by Ibsen where a tourist town depended on its hot springs for its revenues and the establishment was trying to hide the fact that the springs were full of cholera or typhoid or something.  In fact, I was so reminded that I wondered about plot-stealing plus the great white is more dramatic than a germ.<br />
But Jaws was a story.  The author could make any character do anything he wanted.<br />
My son graduated college in 2000.  Wanted to enlist after 9-11.  We&#8217;d paid our dues in various time zones so I talked him out of it in the belief everything would be taken care of before he finished his training.  I&#8217;m so smart&#8230;.<br />
He flew frequently on business and was almost always upgraded to first class.  The attendants picked him, I presume, not for his sense of humor but because he looked like he could be useful.  Six-five, benching three hundred, all conference linebacker or tight end&#8211;can never recall which&#8211;his senior year in high school.<br />
An author could make the corresponding secretary of the chess club into a hero, but the f[ight attendants were in the real world.<br />
So, subliminally or liminally, one looks for tells.<br />
Does that include feet?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637427</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2022 12:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637427</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan, thanks for the link about Houston-area Methodists. I&#039;m watching this process with interest, trying to figure out if any Methodist churches here will leave. There&#039;s a large one I drive past whose sign used to say &quot;Asbury UMC&quot; and now just says &quot;Asbury Church,&quot; as does its website.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan, thanks for the link about Houston-area Methodists. I&#8217;m watching this process with interest, trying to figure out if any Methodist churches here will leave. There&#8217;s a large one I drive past whose sign used to say &#8220;Asbury UMC&#8221; and now just says &#8220;Asbury Church,&#8221; as does its website.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637426</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2022 10:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637426</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry for the spoilers. 

But &quot;Jaws&quot; is a grand classic, almost fifty years old. I kinda assume everyone has seen it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the spoilers. </p>
<p>But &#8220;Jaws&#8221; is a grand classic, almost fifty years old. I kinda assume everyone has seen it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/08/12/open-thread-8-12-22/#comment-2637425</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2022 10:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=119552#comment-2637425</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I suspect it’s something like the “city hands” Huxley referenced.&lt;/i&gt;

Richard Aubrey:

Hooper had &quot;city hands.&quot; He was a short fella with glasses and a high nasal voice. But he was the sane, brave, competent guy on deck, always trying to do the right thing. He almost died trying to kill the shark while in a scuba suit from a shark cage.

Quint was the mad, hyper-masculine, Ahab figure with a beat-up body, so obsessed that he had no compunctions about smashing the radio which meant they couldn&#039;t get help and driving the boat engine so hard it burned up and they were dead in the water waiting for the shark to  attack.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I suspect it’s something like the “city hands” Huxley referenced.</i></p>
<p>Richard Aubrey:</p>
<p>Hooper had &#8220;city hands.&#8221; He was a short fella with glasses and a high nasal voice. But he was the sane, brave, competent guy on deck, always trying to do the right thing. He almost died trying to kill the shark while in a scuba suit from a shark cage.</p>
<p>Quint was the mad, hyper-masculine, Ahab figure with a beat-up body, so obsessed that he had no compunctions about smashing the radio which meant they couldn&#8217;t get help and driving the boat engine so hard it burned up and they were dead in the water waiting for the shark to  attack.</p>
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