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	<title>
	Comments on: Open thread 3/14/22	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: R2L		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2613256</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R2L]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2022 03:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2613256</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wendy, I believe Lane (or someone else?) covers some of the steps observed and/or created going from inorganic chemistry to organic chemistry (formaldehyde, fatty acids, hydrocarbons, possibly polysaccharide chains??, and amino acids, alcohols, sugars, etc.). The above wiki link also covers some of the ideas / observations of organic molecules being made in the stars/space, and then delivered to Earth.

So the real knowledge gap you rightly mention is between organic chemistry to biochemistry - forming proteins, RNA, DNA, etc.  And having versions that do in fact also replicate themselves - i.e., evolution via natural selection at the molecular level prior to evolution at the cellular level.   Thankyou for the reminder as to just how wide that knowledge gap really is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wendy, I believe Lane (or someone else?) covers some of the steps observed and/or created going from inorganic chemistry to organic chemistry (formaldehyde, fatty acids, hydrocarbons, possibly polysaccharide chains??, and amino acids, alcohols, sugars, etc.). The above wiki link also covers some of the ideas / observations of organic molecules being made in the stars/space, and then delivered to Earth.</p>
<p>So the real knowledge gap you rightly mention is between organic chemistry to biochemistry &#8211; forming proteins, RNA, DNA, etc.  And having versions that do in fact also replicate themselves &#8211; i.e., evolution via natural selection at the molecular level prior to evolution at the cellular level.   Thankyou for the reminder as to just how wide that knowledge gap really is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wendy Laubach		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2613123</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy Laubach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2022 17:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2613123</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I love Nick Lane and read all his books eagerly, but he does not really address abiogenesis, though he brilliantly addresses all kinds of other basic principles of life.  Once there is a mechanism that replicates with occasional variations, natural selection kicks in and it&#039;s not too hard to theorize about development in response to competitive pressure.  The problem is what kind of pressure we can posit to result in the process of replication to begin with, starting only with inorganic molecules.

Of special difficulty is the question how an abstract code could have developed in the earliest life, in which a sequence of bases came to be associated with a particular amino acid, thus allowing the construction of a protein made up of a particular sequence of amino acids.  All life on Earth, from bacteria to Sequoias to human beings, uses essentially the same abstract 3-letter code, suggesting that this innovation happened exactly once, billions of years ago.  No one yet has proposed a theory for how these first steps occurred.  That&#039;s not to say it&#039;s impossible, but it&#039;s a yawning gap in our theory to date.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Nick Lane and read all his books eagerly, but he does not really address abiogenesis, though he brilliantly addresses all kinds of other basic principles of life.  Once there is a mechanism that replicates with occasional variations, natural selection kicks in and it&#8217;s not too hard to theorize about development in response to competitive pressure.  The problem is what kind of pressure we can posit to result in the process of replication to begin with, starting only with inorganic molecules.</p>
<p>Of special difficulty is the question how an abstract code could have developed in the earliest life, in which a sequence of bases came to be associated with a particular amino acid, thus allowing the construction of a protein made up of a particular sequence of amino acids.  All life on Earth, from bacteria to Sequoias to human beings, uses essentially the same abstract 3-letter code, suggesting that this innovation happened exactly once, billions of years ago.  No one yet has proposed a theory for how these first steps occurred.  That&#8217;s not to say it&#8217;s impossible, but it&#8217;s a yawning gap in our theory to date.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2613038</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2022 04:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2613038</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just because this picture appeals to me.
Real Dads wear Texas Boots.

https://media.notthebee.com/articles/622bad4257b83622bad4257b84.jpg

Though, come to think of it, in Texas that could just as easily be a Real Mom.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because this picture appeals to me.<br />
Real Dads wear Texas Boots.</p>
<p><a href="https://media.notthebee.com/articles/622bad4257b83622bad4257b84.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">https://media.notthebee.com/articles/622bad4257b83622bad4257b84.jpg</a></p>
<p>Though, come to think of it, in Texas that could just as easily be a Real Mom.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2613036</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2022 04:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2613036</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Abiogenesis or autobiogenesis - it&#039;s time for an old joke.

An atheist scientist came to God and said, “We’ve figured out how to make a man without you.” God said, “OK, let me see you do it.” So the atheist bent down to the ground and scooped up a handful. But God stopped him and said, “No, no, no! Get your own dirt!”

http://www.charlesspecht.com/a-funny-christian-joke-or-two/

&quot;Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, you’ve been a wonderful audience. I’ll be here all week. Try the veal. And don’t forget to tip your servers” 

https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/ill_be_here_all_week_stand_up_comedian_joke]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abiogenesis or autobiogenesis &#8211; it&#8217;s time for an old joke.</p>
<p>An atheist scientist came to God and said, “We’ve figured out how to make a man without you.” God said, “OK, let me see you do it.” So the atheist bent down to the ground and scooped up a handful. But God stopped him and said, “No, no, no! Get your own dirt!”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.charlesspecht.com/a-funny-christian-joke-or-two/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.charlesspecht.com/a-funny-christian-joke-or-two/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, you’ve been a wonderful audience. I’ll be here all week. Try the veal. And don’t forget to tip your servers” </p>
<p><a href="https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/ill_be_here_all_week_stand_up_comedian_joke" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/ill_be_here_all_week_stand_up_comedian_joke</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: R2L		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2613028</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R2L]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2022 03:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2613028</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Abiogenesis (I prefer autobiogenesis, since the leading &quot;a&quot; can mean &quot;not&quot; in some situations, which is confusing in this case): converting from inorganic chemistry to organic chemistry to biochemistry, while also supplying a mode of molecular scale replication and source of energy.  That wiki link says way more than I know about it, but something that needs further emphasis is the role of catalytic substrates in reducing the chemical free energy barrier for particular reactions that might not otherwise occur in a free water/ocean environment.  Clays, diamond, and FeS have been mentioned, plus the microscopic (cell sized) holes in undersea rocks at/ near the thermal vents.  And RNA is also self catalyzing, allowing creation of a variety of other RNA molecules.

There are a number of YouTube videos on the the RNA world issue and other aspects of early life theories/hypotheses that do a great job helping to visualize what is thought to be going on.  The ones showing the generation of bio-energy via ATP or other chemical cascades across a cell barrier are really fascinating. 

I gather the real not-yet-solved issue (aka &quot;gap&quot;) is the detailed understanding of the transition from organic molecules to biomolecules, even if it occurs inside a spherical vesicle made of hydrophile/phobic hydrocarbon molecules to increase concentration of the active participating molecules.  Still, not a subject that can be mastered without years of study, so what we learn from layman oriented books (such as the good ones from Nick Lane and other authors) provide only a top level summary understanding.  Not enough to overcome the questions from a determined skeptic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abiogenesis (I prefer autobiogenesis, since the leading &#8220;a&#8221; can mean &#8220;not&#8221; in some situations, which is confusing in this case): converting from inorganic chemistry to organic chemistry to biochemistry, while also supplying a mode of molecular scale replication and source of energy.  That wiki link says way more than I know about it, but something that needs further emphasis is the role of catalytic substrates in reducing the chemical free energy barrier for particular reactions that might not otherwise occur in a free water/ocean environment.  Clays, diamond, and FeS have been mentioned, plus the microscopic (cell sized) holes in undersea rocks at/ near the thermal vents.  And RNA is also self catalyzing, allowing creation of a variety of other RNA molecules.</p>
<p>There are a number of YouTube videos on the the RNA world issue and other aspects of early life theories/hypotheses that do a great job helping to visualize what is thought to be going on.  The ones showing the generation of bio-energy via ATP or other chemical cascades across a cell barrier are really fascinating. </p>
<p>I gather the real not-yet-solved issue (aka &#8220;gap&#8221;) is the detailed understanding of the transition from organic molecules to biomolecules, even if it occurs inside a spherical vesicle made of hydrophile/phobic hydrocarbon molecules to increase concentration of the active participating molecules.  Still, not a subject that can be mastered without years of study, so what we learn from layman oriented books (such as the good ones from Nick Lane and other authors) provide only a top level summary understanding.  Not enough to overcome the questions from a determined skeptic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: agimarc		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2612999</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[agimarc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2612999</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting video.  Previous explanation of the Ordovician extinction event was a GRB.  The more we pretend to know, the less we actually do.  Happily, the hunt for knowledge continues (however poorly).  Cheers -]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting video.  Previous explanation of the Ordovician extinction event was a GRB.  The more we pretend to know, the less we actually do.  Happily, the hunt for knowledge continues (however poorly).  Cheers &#8211;</p>
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		<title>
		By: jon baker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2612988</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jon baker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2022 22:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2612988</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I drove a manual up until about two years ago on a 94 Chevy. One hang up for them is you need two good hands and two good legs to drive them. Break an arm or a leg, or break and dislocate a shoulder, as I did a few years ago,  and they become difficult to drive.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I drove a manual up until about two years ago on a 94 Chevy. One hang up for them is you need two good hands and two good legs to drive them. Break an arm or a leg, or break and dislocate a shoulder, as I did a few years ago,  and they become difficult to drive.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2612957</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2022 21:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2612957</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Grunt, the thing about pies for today is that they need to be perfectly circular, or nearly so. It would be unfortunate to get a pie whose dimensions are just a bit off, so that the circumference-to-diameter ratio makes it so that you need to hold onto it until St. Patrick&#039;s Day or something. 

(I&#039;m referring to slipshod baking - elliptically.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grunt, the thing about pies for today is that they need to be perfectly circular, or nearly so. It would be unfortunate to get a pie whose dimensions are just a bit off, so that the circumference-to-diameter ratio makes it so that you need to hold onto it until St. Patrick&#8217;s Day or something. </p>
<p>(I&#8217;m referring to slipshod baking &#8211; elliptically.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Britain		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2612954</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Britain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2022 21:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2612954</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On pleasant sunday drives on winding roads, I much prefer a manual transmission. 

Far too many years, on job related driving in LA stop and go traffic, convinced me that an automatic transmission can be a blessing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On pleasant sunday drives on winding roads, I much prefer a manual transmission. </p>
<p>Far too many years, on job related driving in LA stop and go traffic, convinced me that an automatic transmission can be a blessing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rufus T. Firefly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/03/14/open-thread-3-14-22/#comment-2612947</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rufus T. Firefly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2022 21:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115451#comment-2612947</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Grunt,

What a fun activity. I&#039;m sure your kids will enjoy that!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grunt,</p>
<p>What a fun activity. I&#8217;m sure your kids will enjoy that!</p>
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