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	Comments on: Switzerland has frozen Russian assets	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610673</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2022 01:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610673</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om.   Very likely.  But, I have to believe, the history of catastrophic invasions and occupations must be part of the, if only subliminal, world view.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om.   Very likely.  But, I have to believe, the history of catastrophic invasions and occupations must be part of the, if only subliminal, world view.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 13:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[IMO the &quot;Russian&quot; view of their history is to use that history to justify whatever the current despot wants.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO the &#8220;Russian&#8221; view of their history is to use that history to justify whatever the current despot wants.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610559</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 12:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610559</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om
I&#039;ve read about the subject.  Tempted some time back but didn&#039;t think I had the stomach for a concentrated application.e
But my point about the Russian view of things doesn&#039;t require being mixed in with what they&#039;ve done to others. There&#039;s no discount here.
The Russians look at nations which have invaded them and done horrible things to them.  And any corporal with a map could have told....whomever it couldn&#039;t possibly work. So if the Russian planners war game the next invasion and are satisfied it couldn&#039;t possibly work, do the go off to vodka in the calm sense that it won&#039;t be tried since the thing is so obviously nuts?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om<br />
I&#8217;ve read about the subject.  Tempted some time back but didn&#8217;t think I had the stomach for a concentrated application.e<br />
But my point about the Russian view of things doesn&#8217;t require being mixed in with what they&#8217;ve done to others. There&#8217;s no discount here.<br />
The Russians look at nations which have invaded them and done horrible things to them.  And any corporal with a map could have told&#8230;.whomever it couldn&#8217;t possibly work. So if the Russian planners war game the next invasion and are satisfied it couldn&#8217;t possibly work, do the go off to vodka in the calm sense that it won&#8217;t be tried since the thing is so obviously nuts?</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610520</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 06:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610520</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey:

A little light reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Bloodlands-Europe-Between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0465031471

Buy it from anyone except Bezos.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Aubrey:</p>
<p>A little light reading:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Bloodlands-Europe-Between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0465031471" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.amazon.com/Bloodlands-Europe-Between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0465031471</a></p>
<p>Buy it from anyone except Bezos.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610518</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 06:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610518</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, yeah, war is hell, no two ways about it (W.T. Sherman).  

How did the Russian Empire become an empire, gentle persuasion?  That was how the Soviet&#039;s persuaded the Hungarians to remain where they belonged in 1956.  Gently.  Or keep East Germans in their place, behind that wall or the border, gently with Stassi.

But this is supposed to be a happy occasion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yeah, war is hell, no two ways about it (W.T. Sherman).  </p>
<p>How did the Russian Empire become an empire, gentle persuasion?  That was how the Soviet&#8217;s persuaded the Hungarians to remain where they belonged in 1956.  Gently.  Or keep East Germans in their place, behind that wall or the border, gently with Stassi.</p>
<p>But this is supposed to be a happy occasion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: FOAF		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610517</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOAF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 05:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610517</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;But getting overrun by an invading army is a whole ‘nother kettle of awful.&quot;

It wasn&#039;t so great for the captive states of Eastern Europe either when they were under the control of the Soviet Union.  I would say the chances of them being invaded by Russia are a lot greater than Russia being invaded from the west.  I don&#039;t see any Napoleons or Hitlers among today&#039;s Western Eurpoean leaders.  And by the way isn&#039;t that exactly what is happening to Ukraine right now?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But getting overrun by an invading army is a whole ‘nother kettle of awful.&#8221;</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t so great for the captive states of Eastern Europe either when they were under the control of the Soviet Union.  I would say the chances of them being invaded by Russia are a lot greater than Russia being invaded from the west.  I don&#8217;t see any Napoleons or Hitlers among today&#8217;s Western Eurpoean leaders.  And by the way isn&#8217;t that exactly what is happening to Ukraine right now?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610513</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 05:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610513</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om.  Yeah, but the issue is different when you&#039;re looking across the border.  Things don&#039;t get better when French troops go over you, or German troops.
And fully ruined doesn&#039;t mean, Ukraine aside, millions starved on purpose.  Most folks could figure out a way to survive...Czars, Stalin, Putin...But getting overrun by an invading army is a whole &#039;nother kettle of awful.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om.  Yeah, but the issue is different when you&#8217;re looking across the border.  Things don&#8217;t get better when French troops go over you, or German troops.<br />
And fully ruined doesn&#8217;t mean, Ukraine aside, millions starved on purpose.  Most folks could figure out a way to survive&#8230;Czars, Stalin, Putin&#8230;But getting overrun by an invading army is a whole &#8216;nother kettle of awful.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610509</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 05:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610509</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well they were half ruined by the invaders and fully ruined by their own rulers?  When, after all, was the golden age of Russia or the USSR?  Maybe Hubert knows?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well they were half ruined by the invaders and fully ruined by their own rulers?  When, after all, was the golden age of Russia or the USSR?  Maybe Hubert knows?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610494</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 04:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610494</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om.
Lots of invasions fail, some succeed.  Keeping in mind Overlord, for example.  One might figure that it&#039;s logistics.

But Russian history includes invasions, failed though they were,  which covered huge amounts of territory, sometimes nearly to Moscow, while encircling Leningrad. But it&#039;s not the territory, it&#039;s the people on the land covered by the invaders.

Hell, Stalin was so awful to the Ukes--see Duranty on the subject--that they were prepared to throw in with the Germans until the Germans started Germaning and got themselves forty million or thereabouts pissed-off people to stay on top of while fighting the war.

Never been to Russia but I have a relation who studied there.  Says for all the western things like jeans and ties and so forth, they have a different culture internally.  Part may be a kind of paranoia built in by the horror, the unquantifiable horror, of the invasions.

Gallipoli and the Persians into Greece just killed a bunch of soldiers.  Napoleon&#039;s army survived on food taken from peasants--who starved in huge numbers.  Keegan said that, field bakeries not being efficient, a weight of firewood was required equal to the weight of flour used to make bread.  People get tired of being cold.  Unlikely there were many forests left in the vicinity of villages, so you take down the houses to feed the field bakeries. I recall reading of a traveler from NYC to Boston ca 1810 who wrote to some friends he didn&#039;t see a tree the whole way.  So what&#039;s left?

 Foul the wells on your way out just for grits and shins.  Young women....

Brest-Litovsk was supposedly more rigorous than Versailles.

If this is not in Russian DNA, Lamarck is a fraud.   No, wait......   But, anyway, I maintain the history of invasions of Russia are a factor we cannot grok. So we need to keep in mind the rational response to a move by NATO or the EU is not necessarily what we need to look at in our planning.

The various invasions look inevitably like losers from the get-go from our viewpoint.  But the issue is what they looked like to the guys with the hot idea. It is hard to know what they were thinking, but how on earth did they miss all the negative factors? How did they think their way to overcoming the obvious negative factors.

For centuries, the standard road march/approach march for Infantry under load--maybe one third body weight, has been twenty miles per day.  El Paso to New Orleans is further than Berlin to Moscow but...not by a whole lot.  At twenty miles per day.....how long? And the wagons? Do you have enough spare wheels and axles?  Harness?  Horses?  The latter will eat as they go, no fodder brought forward for them, hardly possible to feed the troops.  So the horses run down.  Artillery?
The question is why the guys who tried it were so stupid.  And when the Russians look at the situation, the fact that it looks like a really stupid thing for the EU or NATO to do is meaningless.  They&#039;ve been half-ruined by other invasions which any corporal with a map could have guaranteed would fail. History tells them they can&#039;t count on the opposition being rational as to the prospects for invasion--guaranteed failure--and thus not even starting.  If I&#039;m right, I suspect this is the only place in the world where it&#039;s true.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om.<br />
Lots of invasions fail, some succeed.  Keeping in mind Overlord, for example.  One might figure that it&#8217;s logistics.</p>
<p>But Russian history includes invasions, failed though they were,  which covered huge amounts of territory, sometimes nearly to Moscow, while encircling Leningrad. But it&#8217;s not the territory, it&#8217;s the people on the land covered by the invaders.</p>
<p>Hell, Stalin was so awful to the Ukes&#8211;see Duranty on the subject&#8211;that they were prepared to throw in with the Germans until the Germans started Germaning and got themselves forty million or thereabouts pissed-off people to stay on top of while fighting the war.</p>
<p>Never been to Russia but I have a relation who studied there.  Says for all the western things like jeans and ties and so forth, they have a different culture internally.  Part may be a kind of paranoia built in by the horror, the unquantifiable horror, of the invasions.</p>
<p>Gallipoli and the Persians into Greece just killed a bunch of soldiers.  Napoleon&#8217;s army survived on food taken from peasants&#8211;who starved in huge numbers.  Keegan said that, field bakeries not being efficient, a weight of firewood was required equal to the weight of flour used to make bread.  People get tired of being cold.  Unlikely there were many forests left in the vicinity of villages, so you take down the houses to feed the field bakeries. I recall reading of a traveler from NYC to Boston ca 1810 who wrote to some friends he didn&#8217;t see a tree the whole way.  So what&#8217;s left?</p>
<p> Foul the wells on your way out just for grits and shins.  Young women&#8230;.</p>
<p>Brest-Litovsk was supposedly more rigorous than Versailles.</p>
<p>If this is not in Russian DNA, Lamarck is a fraud.   No, wait&#8230;&#8230;   But, anyway, I maintain the history of invasions of Russia are a factor we cannot grok. So we need to keep in mind the rational response to a move by NATO or the EU is not necessarily what we need to look at in our planning.</p>
<p>The various invasions look inevitably like losers from the get-go from our viewpoint.  But the issue is what they looked like to the guys with the hot idea. It is hard to know what they were thinking, but how on earth did they miss all the negative factors? How did they think their way to overcoming the obvious negative factors.</p>
<p>For centuries, the standard road march/approach march for Infantry under load&#8211;maybe one third body weight, has been twenty miles per day.  El Paso to New Orleans is further than Berlin to Moscow but&#8230;not by a whole lot.  At twenty miles per day&#8230;..how long? And the wagons? Do you have enough spare wheels and axles?  Harness?  Horses?  The latter will eat as they go, no fodder brought forward for them, hardly possible to feed the troops.  So the horses run down.  Artillery?<br />
The question is why the guys who tried it were so stupid.  And when the Russians look at the situation, the fact that it looks like a really stupid thing for the EU or NATO to do is meaningless.  They&#8217;ve been half-ruined by other invasions which any corporal with a map could have guaranteed would fail. History tells them they can&#8217;t count on the opposition being rational as to the prospects for invasion&#8211;guaranteed failure&#8211;and thus not even starting.  If I&#8217;m right, I suspect this is the only place in the world where it&#8217;s true.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/28/switzerland-has-frozen-russian-assets/#comment-2610482</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2022 03:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=115049#comment-2610482</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Speaking of Napoleon and Russia?  

Invasions don&#039;t work out sometimes; Barbarossa, Gallipoli, Napoleon and Russia, Athens and Syracuse, Persians and Greece, Vlad and Ukraine?

https://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/minard

https://thoughtbot.com/blog/analyzing-minards-visualization-of-napoleons-1812-march]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Napoleon and Russia?  </p>
<p>Invasions don&#8217;t work out sometimes; Barbarossa, Gallipoli, Napoleon and Russia, Athens and Syracuse, Persians and Greece, Vlad and Ukraine?</p>
<p><a href="https://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/minard" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/minard</a></p>
<p><a href="https://thoughtbot.com/blog/analyzing-minards-visualization-of-napoleons-1812-march" rel="nofollow ugc">https://thoughtbot.com/blog/analyzing-minards-visualization-of-napoleons-1812-march</a></p>
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