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	<title>
	Comments on: Open thread 2/25/22	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 18:28:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609730</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 18:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609730</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;There were almost always wars, so a lot of women lacked suitors when they reached maturity.&lt;/i&gt;

Where?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There were almost always wars, so a lot of women lacked suitors when they reached maturity.</i></p>
<p>Where?</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609723</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 17:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609723</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: &quot;Third Man&quot; allusion

Zaphod:

I just re-viewed &quot;The Third Man&quot; a few weeks ago and even looked up Welles&#039; famous cuckoo clock speech. He added it to Graham Greene&#039;s script and took a flack because the cuckoo clock is more German than Swiss.
_________________________________

&lt;i&gt;The lines became lodged in the mind because they encapsulated an uncomfortable and at the same time compelling idea. His history may not have been factually accurate - the Swiss were a major military power in Renaissance times and the cuckoo clock originated some time later in Bavaria - but the idea that culture thrives in conditions of war and tyranny has an undeniable basis in fact.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19202527&lt;/i&gt;
_________________________________

The challenge of our current discussion is that it&#039;s not a binary choice, but where does a society draw the line and how, when it comes to creativity, dissent and chaos. Not simple.

BTW, the Harry Lime villain was sufficiently popular with audiences that Welles did a  radio show in which the episodes were prequels to &quot;The Third Man.&quot; I listened to a couple dozen of them with enjoyment during Covid.

https://www.oldradioworld.com/shows/Lives_of_Harry_Lime.php]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;Third Man&#8221; allusion</p>
<p>Zaphod:</p>
<p>I just re-viewed &#8220;The Third Man&#8221; a few weeks ago and even looked up Welles&#8217; famous cuckoo clock speech. He added it to Graham Greene&#8217;s script and took a flack because the cuckoo clock is more German than Swiss.<br />
_________________________________</p>
<p><i>The lines became lodged in the mind because they encapsulated an uncomfortable and at the same time compelling idea. His history may not have been factually accurate &#8211; the Swiss were a major military power in Renaissance times and the cuckoo clock originated some time later in Bavaria &#8211; but the idea that culture thrives in conditions of war and tyranny has an undeniable basis in fact.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19202527" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19202527</a></i><br />
_________________________________</p>
<p>The challenge of our current discussion is that it&#8217;s not a binary choice, but where does a society draw the line and how, when it comes to creativity, dissent and chaos. Not simple.</p>
<p>BTW, the Harry Lime villain was sufficiently popular with audiences that Welles did a  radio show in which the episodes were prequels to &#8220;The Third Man.&#8221; I listened to a couple dozen of them with enjoyment during Covid.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.oldradioworld.com/shows/Lives_of_Harry_Lime.php" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.oldradioworld.com/shows/Lives_of_Harry_Lime.php</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Rufus T. Firefly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609719</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rufus T. Firefly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609719</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Zaphod @ 12:15am,

I think the myth of barefoot and pregnant women chained to a stove is overblown, at least in America&#039;s past. Truly bold and adventurous women had outlets and American history is full of them and their stories. My own mother was no shrinking violet. She always worked and even ran her own business for awhile. She graduated High School in 1955, the very pinnacle of the &#039;50s that are so often caricatured as forcing folks into boxes.

There were almost always wars, so a lot of women lacked suitors when they reached maturity. Some went to the frontier as schoolmarms. Some went to the big city to work in industry. Madam C.J. Walker, a black, American woman born in 1867, made millions founding her own cosmetics company.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zaphod @ 12:15am,</p>
<p>I think the myth of barefoot and pregnant women chained to a stove is overblown, at least in America&#8217;s past. Truly bold and adventurous women had outlets and American history is full of them and their stories. My own mother was no shrinking violet. She always worked and even ran her own business for awhile. She graduated High School in 1955, the very pinnacle of the &#8217;50s that are so often caricatured as forcing folks into boxes.</p>
<p>There were almost always wars, so a lot of women lacked suitors when they reached maturity. Some went to the frontier as schoolmarms. Some went to the big city to work in industry. Madam C.J. Walker, a black, American woman born in 1867, made millions founding her own cosmetics company.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609688</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 12:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609688</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;There seems to be a common denominator in these situations and it ain’t NATO.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, recapitulating what the moderatrix has said, the complaint is that NATO is a cartel inhibiting VP from bullying Europe&#039;s small countries one-by-one.  

Note, from 1902 to 1934, the U.S. government had treaties with Cuba and Panama the provisions of which included a promise by the governments of each to refrain from ratifying treaties with other countries absent the approval of the U.S. government.  One of the Roosevelt Administration&#039;s policy initiatives was abrogating these treaties.  You&#039;ll notice that VP is asserting the Russian government has similar authority over comparatively populous and affluent countries over which it has never heretofore had such discretion.  We can check the text of the Treaty of Co-operation that Finland concluded with Soviet Russia in 1948; it may have had some similar provisions or it may not have.  The effrontery is rather arresting.  (I&#039;m going to wager the Chinese autocrat will be making similar demands in the Far East).  


One other thing you likely won&#039;t hear from Geoffrey Britain or MBunge is that the number of American troops deployed abroad has since 1963 declined by 75%. We have about 60,000 troops in Europe.  Putin&#039;s objection is to the presence of tripwire forces.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There seems to be a common denominator in these situations and it ain’t NATO.</i></p>
<p>Well, recapitulating what the moderatrix has said, the complaint is that NATO is a cartel inhibiting VP from bullying Europe&#8217;s small countries one-by-one.  </p>
<p>Note, from 1902 to 1934, the U.S. government had treaties with Cuba and Panama the provisions of which included a promise by the governments of each to refrain from ratifying treaties with other countries absent the approval of the U.S. government.  One of the Roosevelt Administration&#8217;s policy initiatives was abrogating these treaties.  You&#8217;ll notice that VP is asserting the Russian government has similar authority over comparatively populous and affluent countries over which it has never heretofore had such discretion.  We can check the text of the Treaty of Co-operation that Finland concluded with Soviet Russia in 1948; it may have had some similar provisions or it may not have.  The effrontery is rather arresting.  (I&#8217;m going to wager the Chinese autocrat will be making similar demands in the Far East).  </p>
<p>One other thing you likely won&#8217;t hear from Geoffrey Britain or MBunge is that the number of American troops deployed abroad has since 1963 declined by 75%. We have about 60,000 troops in Europe.  Putin&#8217;s objection is to the presence of tripwire forces.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609677</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 06:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609677</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Z, Geoffrey, Bunge:

As reported earlier by Tim Pool here is a link to Vlad&#039;s threats against Finland and Sweden:

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/02/25/russia-threatens-two-more-countries-with-military-and-political-consequences-n528213

There seems to be a common denominator in these situations and it ain&#039;t NATO.  Finland mentioned something about being a sovereign  nation in it&#039;s negative response to Vlad.  Funny that, eh, Bunge and Z.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z, Geoffrey, Bunge:</p>
<p>As reported earlier by Tim Pool here is a link to Vlad&#8217;s threats against Finland and Sweden:</p>
<p><a href="https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/02/25/russia-threatens-two-more-countries-with-military-and-political-consequences-n528213" rel="nofollow ugc">https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/02/25/russia-threatens-two-more-countries-with-military-and-political-consequences-n528213</a></p>
<p>There seems to be a common denominator in these situations and it ain&#8217;t NATO.  Finland mentioned something about being a sovereign  nation in it&#8217;s negative response to Vlad.  Funny that, eh, Bunge and Z.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609675</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 06:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609675</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Z:

Here&#039;s a link for you about the Russians killed trying to invade Ukraine:

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/02/25/ukraine-scores-a-major-hit-proves-a-big-putin-claim-false-n528153 

Sucks to be a soldier for Vlad.

And Z you must remember this incident

https://www.benzinga.com/news/22/02/25798721/airlines-advised-to-not-fly-over-all-of-ukraine-over-extreme-risk-russia-shuts-down-eastern-ukrainia]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z:</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link for you about the Russians killed trying to invade Ukraine:</p>
<p><a href="https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/02/25/ukraine-scores-a-major-hit-proves-a-big-putin-claim-false-n528153" rel="nofollow ugc">https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/02/25/ukraine-scores-a-major-hit-proves-a-big-putin-claim-false-n528153</a> </p>
<p>Sucks to be a soldier for Vlad.</p>
<p>And Z you must remember this incident</p>
<p><a href="https://www.benzinga.com/news/22/02/25798721/airlines-advised-to-not-fly-over-all-of-ukraine-over-extreme-risk-russia-shuts-down-eastern-ukrainia" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.benzinga.com/news/22/02/25798721/airlines-advised-to-not-fly-over-all-of-ukraine-over-extreme-risk-russia-shuts-down-eastern-ukrainia</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609666</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609666</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Z is troubled because Senator Rubio cheered that a Roosian plane carrying paratroops was shot down while attempting to invade Ukraine.  That stuff happens in war, soldiers die, and if you aren&#039;t allied with Vlad that is seen as consequence of Vlad&#039;s behavior.  For Z those paratroops should have been welcomed with flowers and nubile virgins.  For Z those 13 Ukrainian border guards on Snake Island should have drowned themselves and saved Roosia from expending ordnance.

But for Z, Senator Rubio must be denigrated and debased, after all, he questioned Vlad.  The shill for despots knows his spin.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z is troubled because Senator Rubio cheered that a Roosian plane carrying paratroops was shot down while attempting to invade Ukraine.  That stuff happens in war, soldiers die, and if you aren&#8217;t allied with Vlad that is seen as consequence of Vlad&#8217;s behavior.  For Z those paratroops should have been welcomed with flowers and nubile virgins.  For Z those 13 Ukrainian border guards on Snake Island should have drowned themselves and saved Roosia from expending ordnance.</p>
<p>But for Z, Senator Rubio must be denigrated and debased, after all, he questioned Vlad.  The shill for despots knows his spin.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609665</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609665</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[^--- Third Man allusion for those who didn&#039;t get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cydkTy6GmFA]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^&#8212; Third Man allusion for those who didn&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cydkTy6GmFA" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cydkTy6GmFA</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609663</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609663</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Huxley:

&quot;Careful. Us creative types might like that…&quot;

I can only take so many Cuckoo Clocks, too. There&#039;s an optimal balance between Cuckoo Clocks and Cuckoos in one&#039;s nest. Hard to get right. Maybe impossible... but usually quite apparent when the pendulum has swung too far either way.

It&#039;s gotta be real and not virtual. Otherwise no better than Wokesters LARPing that they&#039;re the Real Dissidents fighting the Big Scary Fascist Man.

&quot;Lucky Russian poets!&quot;

How they ever got by without grants and creative writing programs, we&#039;ll never know.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Huxley:</p>
<p>&#8220;Careful. Us creative types might like that…&#8221;</p>
<p>I can only take so many Cuckoo Clocks, too. There&#8217;s an optimal balance between Cuckoo Clocks and Cuckoos in one&#8217;s nest. Hard to get right. Maybe impossible&#8230; but usually quite apparent when the pendulum has swung too far either way.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s gotta be real and not virtual. Otherwise no better than Wokesters LARPing that they&#8217;re the Real Dissidents fighting the Big Scary Fascist Man.</p>
<p>&#8220;Lucky Russian poets!&#8221;</p>
<p>How they ever got by without grants and creative writing programs, we&#8217;ll never know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2022/02/25/open-thread-2-25-22/#comment-2609661</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=114943#comment-2609661</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;...just happen to think that creativity and dissent should carry some risk and not be too easy.&lt;/i&gt;

Zaphod:

Careful. Us creative types might like that...

I remember some poet in the 70s (Robert Bly?) complain that in America no one cares one way or another about poetry. 

But in Russia, poets are feared and persecuted. 

Lucky Russian poets!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;just happen to think that creativity and dissent should carry some risk and not be too easy.</i></p>
<p>Zaphod:</p>
<p>Careful. Us creative types might like that&#8230;</p>
<p>I remember some poet in the 70s (Robert Bly?) complain that in America no one cares one way or another about poetry. </p>
<p>But in Russia, poets are feared and persecuted. </p>
<p>Lucky Russian poets!</p>
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