As far as charging this 15 year old as an adult, in Pennsylvania a minor is automatically charged as an adult if the charge is first-degree murder. His attorney can make a pre-trial motion asking to remove the case from adult court and remand to the juvenile court system by showing, basically, that the accused doesn’t need to be tried as an adult but instead is “amenable” to the different treatment offered in the juvenile system.

“Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another WITHOUT malice and unintentionally, but in doing some UNLAWFUL ACT not amounting to a felony nor naturally tending to cause death or great bodily harm, or in NEGLIGENTLY doing some act lawful in itself, or by the NEGLIGENT omission to perform a legal duty.” People v Ryczek, 224 Mich 106, 110; 194 NW 609 (1923).

There is no defining statute in Michigan.

I am a lawyyer but not a Michigan lawyer. I doubt that “mere” negligence is sufficient. More likely a higher degree such as “culpable” negligence is required.

Leaving property which can be used to harm another is NOT negligence at common law. THAT is why many states have carefully drafted access to firearms laws with low penalties to encourage not penalize.

I’ve got a friend I talked with last night who kept insisting that this was true, his evidence was that he’d heard it on some conservative talk radio in addition to the MSM. I found it hard to refute except to say I’d seen no real evidence that it was true. Big lie effect in action, just keep repeating the assertion until it becomes conventional wisdom.

Not sure my doodles got that detailed, but with a few horizontal strokes of a pencil, you could work up a silhouette of a small deck gun, maybe ca WW I.

I don’t think I’d have drawn a picture of a bleeding body.

I sympathize with the math issue. My wife and I tutored some refugees through their junior year. We could handle everything but the math. Trig scattered into the plane. “go to the math lab”. Didn’t have/need one when I was in school,

Motto of common core, “Leave No Teacher Standing”

Yes, that “troubled child” reference caught my attention, too. I listened to the whole thing, waiting for more details, but they never offered a single one. My guess is that they are not up to speed on the details of this. For example, they never mentioned the video game excuse, which is a big part of the story in my opinion. My guess is that Frei and Barnes uncharacteristically succumbed to media hype. I’ve noticed that almost all the MSM stories frame the thing as “the parents knew prior to the shooting that there were emotional problems,” but the only evidence the articles offer is about the drawings on the very day of the shootings. Nothing prior to that. It’s a subtle move on the part of the MSM to indicate knowledge prior to that day, although I’ve never seen a single indication of any such knowledge.

I think that’s what Frei and Barnes were influenced by.

That said, I get neo’s point. The school does fear liability after various other school shootings. While I think there can be an innocent explanation to the drawings, such as “making a video game”; I don’t have any issues with a kid missing a day or two to explain this to a counselor, such that everybody is comfortable with the associated mind at work. I do wonder if there is a law about this in Michigan, yet I also think unless the law or school demands it, there is no reason for parents to just take their kid home because they were asked.

I was once accused of being suicidal in HS. I was pulled from class and spoke with two teachers and counselor about it. I only missed a little bit of class time, but my situation was a bit different. I was part of a district wide “peer-counselor” program, in which kids that had gone a psychological assessment were asked to help other students through depression (theory being they might tell a fellow student before an adult, but that we would then direct them to an adult). The school already knew I wasn’t likely to commit suicide, but they still checked nothing was bothering me that day. The accusation was from a guy trying to get me away from a girl he wanted to date. It backfired on him (no pun intended) and was stupid because I was not interested in dating the girl, but she was fun to talk to at lunch. I don’t recall my parents really even talking to me about it, but I know the school contacted them.

I’m curious from the Frei and Barnes video why they keep speaking of a “troubled child”. I can see that the shooting itself suggests trouble, but I don’t see evidence that this was understood by the parents or school prior to the day of the event. If the parents knew their child had emotional issues, that might provide a different context to the parent’s actions and comments. But without something more than the few hours before the shooting; I’m still not seeing anything worthy of criminal charges to the parent. Frei’s use of the term suggests prior knowledge, as I hear him use it.

We have a friend about eleven or twelve. When he was in third grade, he was missing from class. After a search, he was found playing pokemon in the restroom because, as he said, the teacher was boring. Should say he shows signs of genius and sociability. But you NEVER skip class because the teacher is boring. Wonder what went into his file.
At one point, I was having a beer and he had a plastic wine glass with grape juice. “Want some?” he asked. I declined. “Never mix the grain with the grape,” he said.
He could harmlessly get crossways with the ed biz and get something on his file that he doesn’t deserve. I expect some educators could be reluctant to go big and go hard based on a drawing something like they’d seen so many times before. Point is whether the case is so clear cut that responsibility is diamond nd sharp. Failing the backpack is another issue.

neo on December 6, 2021 at 5:22 pm said:

DNW:

Probably half the parents in the country are mad at Common Core. That’s an academic problem – from 5 years ago – and no indication whatsoever of the sort of behavioral red flag we’re talking about here.

She even mentions that the teachers hate teaching Common Core. As I said, this is garden variety stuff and no indication of any propensity to violence or disturbance on the part of the kid, or any particular mental health issues at all.

I think this kid was a sociopath who presented as very together and yet was extremely disturbed in the way of sociopaths. I have seen nothing to indicate otherwise, although I’m open to revising my opinion if I see reason to do so.

Click on some of the links. Apparently they habitually enjoyed a night out at the bar as the kid was growing up; relying on the slogan that “Eight is Enough” … old enough that is, for a kid to take care of himself home alone.

Now, that is not evidence that they committed a proximate crime in this shooting, but it goes to their character and his development.

And given privacy laws for department of social services interventions and minors in school, there is damn little chance we will ever get a indubitable picture of the motivations and actions of these parents … apart from what cash register receipts and time stamps might tell us.

Not necessarily unbiased, but a friend of the mother called child protective service on her too.

They might not be guilty of any obvious statutory violations, but they will sure as hell have a hard time finding unimpeachable character witnesses, should they require them.

“James Crumbley’s ex-girlfriend says Ethan’s dad is ‘piece of s**t’ who abandoned her family and Jennifer is a ‘monster’

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4212204/crumbley-neighbor-warned-child-abuse-authorities-parents/