Watts would have no trouble describing himself as a rogue. As you pointed out, he also referred to himself as an entertainer.

It’s common practice in some Zendos for the head assistant to whack students across the shoulders with a stick, should their steely erect meditation posture start to droop. Leonard Cohen attended one of those.

In Zen parables the teacher often instructs students harshly to guide them. A classic is Gutei cutting off a boy’s finger:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juzhi_Yizhi

However, the Training deals with people’s emotions and stories much more than Zen does. Nor do Zen teachers resort to crude name-calling as est Trainers did. (That’s moderated in the Landmark Forum.)

As to It: In NLP that would come under the heading of Trance Language — vague, confusing language that mystifies more than specifies with the intention of bypassing the conscious mind.

The Landmark Forum, with its large Heidegger infusion, has taken that to a whole ‘nother level.
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It’s your choice whether you have taken the stand that you are the stand you take or merely living in the concept of it.

We are standing in the possibility of being our Word.

Always interested to hear your takes on these matters since you’ve been there, done that, and got the t-shirt!

When he gets to Erhard, he just smiles and says, “You rogue, you.”

Mutual Recognition FTW.

Would it be fair to say that one big difference between est training and following a Zen master in the traditional way is that in est the humiliations are more public?

Re the Watts quote, are there enough its in it to make your NLP whiskers twitch?

You’re welcome!

BTW, that’s from my secret stash. As far as I know, I’m the only person in the world who has put together that quote and The est Training. (Pats self on back.)

Also, note the emphasis on “It.” “Getting It,” as you may be aware, is the climax of the Training.

Erhard and Watts were friends. Erhard enjoys telling the story of being invited to a big spiritual meeting of various luminaries. Watts is also present. Watts greets the exalted participants with appropriate addresses. When he gets to Erhard, he just smiles and says, “You rogue, you.”

Thanks! And this time it let me make the purchase. Bezos can live another day.

I dug up my material on the Alan Watts / Werner Erhard link. Erhard claims Zen was crucial to his creation of The est Training. Some, if not all, of his knowledge of Zen certainly came from Watts. Erhard attended lectures Watts gave on his houseboat in Sausalito.

I believe the Watts quotes below came from those lectures. If one has taken the Training, it is easy to see the blueprint Erhard used for the Training — including “assholes.”
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All humane people admit they are assholes.

–Alan Watts, “Out of Your Mind”
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“Out of Your Mind” is an excellent set of Watts lectures. Available on Audiobook, if the Oligarchs don’t mind.

https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2021/11/texas-isnt-stopping-illegal-aliens-its.html

If true, just one more case of Not a Serious Country. Not a Serious People.

The story broke over three hours ago. See Instapundit or Zerohedge or elsewhere for further information.

UPDATE
The FIB has leaked contents to the vile NYTimes.Sean Davis condemns … SEE Instapundit

https://asiatimes.com/2021/11/south-asian-gene-affects-covid-severity-study/

YouTube Algo’s Gift of the Day:

All of Paradise Lost. Wait until you hear who plays Satan. Perfect casting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GINzUBvQ5nw

Satan kicks in at the 5:20 mark for those impatient to know.