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	<title>
	Comments on: Open thread 10/20/21	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584639</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Oct 2021 05:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584639</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Neo &#062; &quot;Each generation has its own major formative events that are particular to that generation, and I wouldn’t expect other generations to share the same feeling about the same events.&quot;

I have been a great fan of the British mystery writers Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers since middle school (and sometimes I still put a &quot;u&quot; in colour, regardless of its shade of teal).  Obviously, the major formative events of their generation had no personal relevance for me, not only because of the generation gap in time, but the cultural gap between America and England, but that did not detract from my reading pleasure. 
I am also a fan of the specifically-denominated historical fiction genre, whether set in Renaissance Europe, or ancient Egypt, or somewhere in between.

Quite a few years ago, I realized that I was implicitly putting the Christie &#038; Sayers books into the same &quot;bucket&quot; as the explicitly historical works, and thus was relating to them in much the same way.  

However, it does seem odd to realize, as Bryan did, that a story set within the nearer boundaries of our own lives, in both time and place, is still historical fiction.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Neo &gt; &#8220;Each generation has its own major formative events that are particular to that generation, and I wouldn’t expect other generations to share the same feeling about the same events.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have been a great fan of the British mystery writers Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers since middle school (and sometimes I still put a &#8220;u&#8221; in colour, regardless of its shade of teal).  Obviously, the major formative events of their generation had no personal relevance for me, not only because of the generation gap in time, but the cultural gap between America and England, but that did not detract from my reading pleasure.<br />
I am also a fan of the specifically-denominated historical fiction genre, whether set in Renaissance Europe, or ancient Egypt, or somewhere in between.</p>
<p>Quite a few years ago, I realized that I was implicitly putting the Christie &amp; Sayers books into the same &#8220;bucket&#8221; as the explicitly historical works, and thus was relating to them in much the same way.  </p>
<p>However, it does seem odd to realize, as Bryan did, that a story set within the nearer boundaries of our own lives, in both time and place, is still historical fiction.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584444</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Oct 2021 02:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584444</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Brian Lovely:

Each generation has its own major formative events that are particular to that generation, and I wouldn&#039;t expect other generations to share the same feeling about the same events.  The 60s were a time of tremendous cultural upheaval happening very fast, though, and they made a deep mark.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian Lovely:</p>
<p>Each generation has its own major formative events that are particular to that generation, and I wouldn&#8217;t expect other generations to share the same feeling about the same events.  The 60s were a time of tremendous cultural upheaval happening very fast, though, and they made a deep mark.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bryan Lovely		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584409</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bryan Lovely]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584409</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo --

Yeah, I had to be instructed in all the allusions: this one was Mick Jagger, that one was Kent State, etc. I get that all those were very meaningful to a certain set of people who happened to be the right age range during that period, but a mere nine years later it was completely dated.

It reminds me of when I read the &lt;i&gt;Illuminatus!&lt;/i&gt; trilogy ten years ago, and while a lot of it was fun esoteric-conspiracy stuff, a lot of it was very &#039;60s-specific cultural stuff that just fell flat for me. Like, I get that the Chicago &#039;68 DNC riots were a big deal, but the books read like the author thought they weren&#039;t the most important event in all world history up until then.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo &#8212;</p>
<p>Yeah, I had to be instructed in all the allusions: this one was Mick Jagger, that one was Kent State, etc. I get that all those were very meaningful to a certain set of people who happened to be the right age range during that period, but a mere nine years later it was completely dated.</p>
<p>It reminds me of when I read the <i>Illuminatus!</i> trilogy ten years ago, and while a lot of it was fun esoteric-conspiracy stuff, a lot of it was very &#8217;60s-specific cultural stuff that just fell flat for me. Like, I get that the Chicago &#8217;68 DNC riots were a big deal, but the books read like the author thought they weren&#8217;t the most important event in all world history up until then.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584269</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2021 16:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584269</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ David Riceman &#062; &quot;See Scott Alexander’s fictional take&quot;

The Internet Auditors didn&#039;t like the Hebrew letter in your URL.
Go to the book&#039;s table of contents and look for the interlude between chapters 36 and 37.
I am now going to have to burn the week-end reading the whole thing.

https://unsongbook.com/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ David Riceman &gt; &#8220;See Scott Alexander’s fictional take&#8221;</p>
<p>The Internet Auditors didn&#8217;t like the Hebrew letter in your URL.<br />
Go to the book&#8217;s table of contents and look for the interlude between chapters 36 and 37.<br />
I am now going to have to burn the week-end reading the whole thing.</p>
<p><a href="https://unsongbook.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://unsongbook.com/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584234</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2021 11:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584234</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Excellent review of Crazy Uncle Ted’s Manifesto here:

https://theworthyhouse.com/2021/10/22/industrial-society-and-its-future-theodore-john-kaczynski/

You might find the bit I highlighted with asterisks interesting. I know I did.

“Industrial Society and Its Future contains one primary theme and one secondary theme. The primary theme is that industrial-technological civilization, that is, what we live in today and have since the Industrial Revolution, is very bad for mankind and therefore must be ended. That’s no surprise if you know any of Kaczynski‘s story. But the secondary theme is that leftism is the biggest obstacle to accomplishing this goal, and to human flourishing generally. That is a surprise. I must admit that before I read this book, ******I had no idea that Kaczynski regarded leftism as the driver of evil. (It’s amusing that a thinker as different as René Girard came to the same conclusion through a totally unrelated chain of reasoning.) This largely ignored fact no doubt explains much of the animosity of the regime against him—after all, the very many leftist bombers of the 1970s were lionized then and rarely, if ever punished, and after were in fact often rewarded, most notably the execrable Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. Kaczynski got life in the Supermax, where he is today.******”]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent review of Crazy Uncle Ted’s Manifesto here:</p>
<p><a href="https://theworthyhouse.com/2021/10/22/industrial-society-and-its-future-theodore-john-kaczynski/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://theworthyhouse.com/2021/10/22/industrial-society-and-its-future-theodore-john-kaczynski/</a></p>
<p>You might find the bit I highlighted with asterisks interesting. I know I did.</p>
<p>“Industrial Society and Its Future contains one primary theme and one secondary theme. The primary theme is that industrial-technological civilization, that is, what we live in today and have since the Industrial Revolution, is very bad for mankind and therefore must be ended. That’s no surprise if you know any of Kaczynski‘s story. But the secondary theme is that leftism is the biggest obstacle to accomplishing this goal, and to human flourishing generally. That is a surprise. I must admit that before I read this book, ******I had no idea that Kaczynski regarded leftism as the driver of evil. (It’s amusing that a thinker as different as René Girard came to the same conclusion through a totally unrelated chain of reasoning.) This largely ignored fact no doubt explains much of the animosity of the regime against him—after all, the very many leftist bombers of the 1970s were lionized then and rarely, if ever punished, and after were in fact often rewarded, most notably the execrable Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. Kaczynski got life in the Supermax, where he is today.******”</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584229</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2021 09:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584229</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Walter &#062; &quot;Fabulous new rendition of American Pie by Don McLean and the acapella group Home Free:&quot;

I gave it a try. 
It is fabulous.
Don McLean sounds wonderful still (at 75ish), and unaccompanied voices are my favorite of all vocal ensembles. Plus great visuals.

Also, brought up on the sidebar of suggestions, last year from Australia:
Don McLean On The Meaning Of ‘American Pie’ &#124; Studio 10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwRuInx6fSU

&quot;The whole thing came in one piece, like a genie out of a bottle.&quot;

Not much more than that, so the speculations are not resolved here, but there are some nice clips from his concerts 50 years ago, and his feelings about writing music.
Teases a 2021 documentary, which may be out by now.

Trivia from the host: the hit &quot;Killing me softly with his song&quot; was written about McLean&#039;s voice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Walter &gt; &#8220;Fabulous new rendition of American Pie by Don McLean and the acapella group Home Free:&#8221;</p>
<p>I gave it a try.<br />
It is fabulous.<br />
Don McLean sounds wonderful still (at 75ish), and unaccompanied voices are my favorite of all vocal ensembles. Plus great visuals.</p>
<p>Also, brought up on the sidebar of suggestions, last year from Australia:<br />
Don McLean On The Meaning Of ‘American Pie’ | Studio 10<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwRuInx6fSU" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwRuInx6fSU</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The whole thing came in one piece, like a genie out of a bottle.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not much more than that, so the speculations are not resolved here, but there are some nice clips from his concerts 50 years ago, and his feelings about writing music.<br />
Teases a 2021 documentary, which may be out by now.</p>
<p>Trivia from the host: the hit &#8220;Killing me softly with his song&#8221; was written about McLean&#8217;s voice.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584220</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2021 07:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584220</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Affirmative Action in Action:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2019/12/19/pilot-of-doomed-amazon-air-flight-had-poor-training-record-seemed-confused-before-crash-ntsb-report-suggests/

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=conrad+aska&#038;t=newext&#038;atb=v237-1&#038;iax=images&#038;ia=images]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Affirmative Action in Action:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2019/12/19/pilot-of-doomed-amazon-air-flight-had-poor-training-record-seemed-confused-before-crash-ntsb-report-suggests/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2019/12/19/pilot-of-doomed-amazon-air-flight-had-poor-training-record-seemed-confused-before-crash-ntsb-report-suggests/</a></p>
<p><a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=conrad+aska&#038;t=newext&#038;atb=v237-1&#038;iax=images&#038;ia=images" rel="nofollow ugc">https://duckduckgo.com/?q=conrad+aska&#038;t=newext&#038;atb=v237-1&#038;iax=images&#038;ia=images</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584219</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2021 07:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584219</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Back in the day, I did not &quot;get&quot; many of the musical or historical allusions from hearing the song, because I was not a &quot;fan&quot; of popular music growing up in the sixties (b. 1952, to be properly placed along the Salon&#039;s age axis).
I knew some references from hearing the radio occasionally, but did not play it often myself nor did the rest of my family, and never went to dances or pop/rock concerts.  (However, I was a fan of DNW&#039;s &quot;excreable twerp duo&quot; FWIW.)

That said, from just listening to the lyrics in the abstract, my first impression of the contested phrase &quot;but the levee was dry&quot; meant that the driver, in despair, had intended to commit suicide and was foiled in the attempt.

YMMV.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the day, I did not &#8220;get&#8221; many of the musical or historical allusions from hearing the song, because I was not a &#8220;fan&#8221; of popular music growing up in the sixties (b. 1952, to be properly placed along the Salon&#8217;s age axis).<br />
I knew some references from hearing the radio occasionally, but did not play it often myself nor did the rest of my family, and never went to dances or pop/rock concerts.  (However, I was a fan of DNW&#8217;s &#8220;excreable twerp duo&#8221; FWIW.)</p>
<p>That said, from just listening to the lyrics in the abstract, my first impression of the contested phrase &#8220;but the levee was dry&#8221; meant that the driver, in despair, had intended to commit suicide and was foiled in the attempt.</p>
<p>YMMV.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584153</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2021 23:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584153</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Left mob of violence and persecution is hounding Senator Sinema, as the progborg - mightily funded by billionaires, I&#039;m sure - polices heresy.

Sinema joins Senator Manchin in becoming an object of hatred for the far Left. As Neo notes elsewhere, the far Left deserves it&#039;s hegemony. They believe. 

Thus, they act accordingly.

I&#039;m sure there are other roundups of the mayhem and threats. Here&#039;s the one I&#039;ve encountered.

Apparently, True Believers on her staff have quit in sympathy either the righteous cultists.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/5-sinema-advisors-quit-accuse-her-selling-out-big-donors-left-wing-backlash-intensifies]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Left mob of violence and persecution is hounding Senator Sinema, as the progborg &#8211; mightily funded by billionaires, I&#8217;m sure &#8211; polices heresy.</p>
<p>Sinema joins Senator Manchin in becoming an object of hatred for the far Left. As Neo notes elsewhere, the far Left deserves it&#8217;s hegemony. They believe. </p>
<p>Thus, they act accordingly.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are other roundups of the mayhem and threats. Here&#8217;s the one I&#8217;ve encountered.</p>
<p>Apparently, True Believers on her staff have quit in sympathy either the righteous cultists.<br />
<a href="https://www.zerohedge.com/political/5-sinema-advisors-quit-accuse-her-selling-out-big-donors-left-wing-backlash-intensifies" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.zerohedge.com/political/5-sinema-advisors-quit-accuse-her-selling-out-big-donors-left-wing-backlash-intensifies</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/10/20/open-thread-10-20-21/#comment-2584150</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2021 23:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=111463#comment-2584150</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bryan Lovely:

A couple of things.

First of all, the levee was dry because it rhymes with pie, rye, and die.  And because it&#039;s part of what drives the earworm quality of the song.  We can perceive an earworm as annoying, but it&#039;s also often a reflection of the part of the song that&#039;s the &quot;hook,&quot; and hooks are part of what makes hits.

Secondly, although the &quot;day the music died&quot; does indeed refer to Buddy Holly&#039;s death, that&#039;s only a symbol of a transition (IMHO) that occurred in the mid-20th Century.  The song is about the transition from the 50s to the 60s to the 70s for the generation that grew up in that time.  Popular music both symbolized and reflected those times.  The song deals with Vietnam and the assassinations of the 1960s, and also the change from the seemingly innocent &quot;sock hop&quot; 50s to the flower-power protest (and relatively idealistic) 60s to Altamont and the Manson murders, all of which are referenced in the song lyrics.  To me, the song&#039;s poignancy has to do with the cultural whiplash and disillusionment experienced by many in my generation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryan Lovely:</p>
<p>A couple of things.</p>
<p>First of all, the levee was dry because it rhymes with pie, rye, and die.  And because it&#8217;s part of what drives the earworm quality of the song.  We can perceive an earworm as annoying, but it&#8217;s also often a reflection of the part of the song that&#8217;s the &#8220;hook,&#8221; and hooks are part of what makes hits.</p>
<p>Secondly, although the &#8220;day the music died&#8221; does indeed refer to Buddy Holly&#8217;s death, that&#8217;s only a symbol of a transition (IMHO) that occurred in the mid-20th Century.  The song is about the transition from the 50s to the 60s to the 70s for the generation that grew up in that time.  Popular music both symbolized and reflected those times.  The song deals with Vietnam and the assassinations of the 1960s, and also the change from the seemingly innocent &#8220;sock hop&#8221; 50s to the flower-power protest (and relatively idealistic) 60s to Altamont and the Manson murders, all of which are referenced in the song lyrics.  To me, the song&#8217;s poignancy has to do with the cultural whiplash and disillusionment experienced by many in my generation.</p>
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