Comments on: Failure is an orphan: the generals testify on the Afghanistan withdrawal https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/ A blog about political change, among other things Thu, 30 Sep 2021 22:03:41 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0 By: Richard Aubrey https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579894 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 22:03:41 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579894 My question about limits was related to Operation Kayla Mueller. Massive assets. Delta operators, 75th Ranger Regiment, 160th Special ops Aviation Regiment, MC130 aerial refueling ships, fighter cover, and Navy ships in the Persian Gulf (presumably spinning up their missiles just in case). Did Trump cut down the planned resources? Why would he?
I doubt FDR told Marshall prior to D-Day that they didn’t need that many battleships for gunfire support. Or anything else.
Question more broadly is it true that Biden cut down the number of troops? It seems so nuts that it’s hard to believe.
It’s the sort of thing one would not think of in reviewing the plan. ” Troop numbers…? Got to rethink that one. What were the generals thinking? No, only need seven hundred.”
How did the subject arise? Did the generals object?
It would be like me telling the guy making the omelets that he’s cracking the eggs wrong and should have his wrist looser. Otherwise I’m leaving the restaurant.

I’m having trouble describing the idea of how unlikely it seems to me that any presentation of the plan would even be involving the numbers. Present the numbers almost by-the-way. “We’ve got eleven hundred at Bagram, fourteen hundred in Kabul securing the airport.”
Biden’s eyes light up?
Not. Getting. It.

]]> By: neo https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579860 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:57:39 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579860 Richard Aubrey:

Was WHO limited by Trump’s diktats? The generals advised him, after he set the general policy, on how best to go about it, whether it was a good idea, what the pitfalls might be, and how many troops it would take. He could take or leave their advice. From what I’ve read about Trump, he tended to do what they recommended in terms of troops, although he set the goals.

Biden wasn’t limited by anything Trump agreed to.

I’ve read that LBJ tried to fine-tune things, even to the extent of choosing bombing targets, and that that was a problem. However, I don’t know whether it’s true.

Biden seems to have ignored his generals’ recommendations for troop numbers (and quite a bit else) and overriden them. As CIC he is allowed to do that, but most presidents haven’t done that as far as I know. They have respected the idea that generals probably know better than they how many troops it takes to accomplish a certain stated task.

I suppose Eisenhower could have been an exception, because he knew at least as well as his generals and probably better.

]]> By: Richard Aubrey https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579858 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:46:11 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579858 neo
Is there a history of POTUS fixing the troop limit for an operation? See “Operation Kayla Mueller” on youtube. Massive resources. Were they limited by Trump’s diktats?

Why would anybody involved in the planning even ask. Isn’t it, “Mr. President, this is the plan.” POTUS. “More details, please.” Generals give details. POTUS says, “knock off two thirds of the troops”

Whoever it was who did whichever, it seems pretty unlikely.

The thing about a plan is that whoever reduces the commander’s requirements is taking responsibility for catastrophe which may well follow. Hierarchially, it may still be possible to blame the commander, but everybody knows anyway. But mostly you can’t duck it if you unilaterally pull requirements.

]]> By: neo https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579856 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:32:32 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579856 bob sykes:

Trump’s agreement committed us to nothing unless the Taliban fulfilled their side of the bargain. He also says he would have kept Bagram and the 2500 the generals recommended.

Trump considers such agreements things which he has no trouble walking away from if the other side violates them.

To say it would have been “messy” is to say something pretty meaningless. Everything in war is at least somewhat “messy.” What happened under Biden wasn’t just “messy”: it was a stupid, senseless debacle, easily prevented by following the dictates of common sense.

]]> By: Richard Aubrey https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579849 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 16:58:07 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579849 We have abandoned a theater in a fourteen hundred year war. The benefit is…some people who know nothing think this is a good thing, leading to a greater peace.
Other than that, and the certainty of more casualties in the immediate future, nothing’s changed.

One of the generals mentioned Pakistan as a “sanctuary”. Post war history shows the usefulness of a sanctuary, from Yugoslavia in the Greek civil war to Pakistan. Including the Yalu River, off again, on again target restrictions in North Viet Nam, and China off limits altogether. You can’t win against a movement with a sanctuary.
Running an experiment with a variable; back in the day, Tito closed off the commie’s sanctuary and their movement in Greece collapsed.

]]> By: bob sykes https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579836 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:04:33 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579836 We were going to leave at some point, and it was going to be a mess.

Trump’s negotiations with the Taliban committed us to leave by May 1, and in return the Taliban agreed not to attack the US/NATO forces. Biden pushed that back to September 1, and the Taliban agreed to the extension, but insisted it was a hard deadline. If the US/NATO were still in country after 9/1, the war against them would be back on. We would be in the midst of heavy fighting right now if we had stayed.

A bigger issue is the claim by witnesses at the airport that after the bomb went off, guards at the airport gunned down dozens of people in the crowd. The claim is that most of the 200 dead were shot dead by guards.

]]> By: Grandpagrumble https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579828 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:24:24 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579828 But let us never forget that 13 of our finest and 10 innocent Afghans (at least) died because of these people’s actions. I’m sure their loved ones won’t so neither should all of us.

]]> By: Barry Meislin https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579818 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:16:16 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579818 “We don’t admint nuthin'”
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-administration-denies-entry-chartered-rescue-flight-carrying-american-citizens

The coverup continues apace…

Plus:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/generals-confess-pentagon-knew-within-hours-drone-strike-killed-afghan-civilians

]]> By: Barry Meislin https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579814 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:32:52 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579814 “He couldn’t ‘recall’ contrary advice….”

Ah yes, the tried and true “James Comey” defense! (Works every time!!)

OTOH, that Afghanistan “business” WAS indeed such a long time ago….

Shorter version: Let’s put that behind us for the GOOD OF THE NATION…. Can’t see the point of those Republicans (and those Trumpists who support them) POUNCING on the government of OUR GREAT COUNTRY, picking at that scab. WHAT FOR? Except to weaken OUR GREAT COUNTRY and denigrate our BRAVE ARMED FORCES… Simply DEPLORABLE, indefensible, anti-American behavior…..

]]> By: Barry Meislin https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/29/failure-is-an-orphan-the-generals-testify-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal/#comment-2579813 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:22:48 +0000 https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110923#comment-2579813 “…why hasn’t that advisor been fired?”

Because to fire someone would be to admit failure and responsibility, fecklessness and incompetence.

THAT simply can’t be done because of, well, THE GOAL.

And so that gang hangs together, accuses together, prevaricates together, DESTROYS TOGETHER.

That is, when your overarching goal is to full-steam “transform” (IOW destroy) your country, then you blame everyone else but yourselves. You hang together. You lie about EVERYTHING. (Palestinian Rules.)

And no, you CANNOT admit failure.

Keeping in mind:
“The Afghanistan operation [i.e., strategic and tactical catastrophe] was a great strategic and tactical success.”…
…and “It was ALL Trump’s fault.”…
…and “We don’t admit nuthin’.”

We are through the looking glass (and a most sinister one at that) where everything is FALSE, where NOTHING makes sense because EVERYTHING HAS TO be true and EVERYTHING HAS TO make sense…

…in order to achieve the OVERARCHING, GLORIOUS goal…

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