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	Comments on: The Jewish New Year begins tonight	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: BenDavid		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BenDavid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2021 06:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kate:
BenDavid, I won’t argue your point #2; this isn’t the time and place, and this thread is about mutual respect, anyhow.
--------
Indeed the divinity of Jesus is the main point of difference. John Paul resolved this elegantly in Nostre Aetate by saying that G-d still honored the covenant with the Jews, and Jews could still relate to G-d through that covenant.

And i think John Paul saw that the shared portion - the moral and political conlusions of monotheism and the brotherhood of mankind, and the law of Moses that expresses them - were under prolonged, virulent  attack. If anything the battle has gotten fiercer since then. Religious Christians and Jews are very much in the same bunker in the current cultural/political/moral struggle for the soul of the West.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate:<br />
BenDavid, I won’t argue your point #2; this isn’t the time and place, and this thread is about mutual respect, anyhow.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Indeed the divinity of Jesus is the main point of difference. John Paul resolved this elegantly in Nostre Aetate by saying that G-d still honored the covenant with the Jews, and Jews could still relate to G-d through that covenant.</p>
<p>And i think John Paul saw that the shared portion &#8211; the moral and political conlusions of monotheism and the brotherhood of mankind, and the law of Moses that expresses them &#8211; were under prolonged, virulent  attack. If anything the battle has gotten fiercer since then. Religious Christians and Jews are very much in the same bunker in the current cultural/political/moral struggle for the soul of the West.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BenDavid		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575705</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BenDavid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2021 04:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575705</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Augmenting Barry Meislin:

Judaism always had an oral tradition alongside the written, received law. This tradition included details of observance, homiletical/philosophical material, and folk stories that complement the Biblical telling of events with personal experiences. It is mentioned obliquely when the Bible describes Moses sitting to judge the people all day (Exodus 18:13) and in other verses describing the lay leadership if the heads of the 12 tribes.

In Judaism&#039;s view prophecy waned after the 1st Temple. The return from Babylon is led by the last minor prophets and by men of lesser Divine inspiration such as Ezra and Nehemiah.  Without the monarchy, leadership passes to the descendants of Moses and the elders. The era of Rabbinical Judaism begins - those who preserve and learn both the written and oral traditions.

By the time of Jesus the continued lack of full sovereignty and an increasingly corrupt priesthood solidify the position of the Sanhedrin.

The zedukim/sadducees rejected the oral tradition and its laws. They are largely associated with the Hellenized, corrupt priestly class cultivated by the Romans.

So Pharisee means 2 things:
1. Those who uphold the oral tradition of interpretation (perush).
2. Those who remained separate (parash) from the general trend of Hellenic culture and assimilation into the Roman empire.

There are other sects at this time such as the Essenes.

Orthodox Jews are the direct descendants of the Pharisees. This has been mainstream Judaism for 2000 years. 

The modern era has seen new versions of the sadducee approach and other attempts by assimilating Jews to reduce Judaism to universal principles and shed its restrictions - so-called &quot;Reform Judaism&quot; and &quot;Reconstructionist Judaism&quot;.

Without insulting anyone else&#039;s understanding of Jesus: the Talmud&#039;s take on the man called Jesus is that he started out as a student of a Pharisee teacher, then became &quot;radicalized&quot; - both religiously and politically. He is one of tens of thousands of young scholar-soldiers who joined the revolt against Rome. There were many more than 3 crucifixes on the Jerusalem skyline in that era.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Augmenting Barry Meislin:</p>
<p>Judaism always had an oral tradition alongside the written, received law. This tradition included details of observance, homiletical/philosophical material, and folk stories that complement the Biblical telling of events with personal experiences. It is mentioned obliquely when the Bible describes Moses sitting to judge the people all day (Exodus 18:13) and in other verses describing the lay leadership if the heads of the 12 tribes.</p>
<p>In Judaism&#8217;s view prophecy waned after the 1st Temple. The return from Babylon is led by the last minor prophets and by men of lesser Divine inspiration such as Ezra and Nehemiah.  Without the monarchy, leadership passes to the descendants of Moses and the elders. The era of Rabbinical Judaism begins &#8211; those who preserve and learn both the written and oral traditions.</p>
<p>By the time of Jesus the continued lack of full sovereignty and an increasingly corrupt priesthood solidify the position of the Sanhedrin.</p>
<p>The zedukim/sadducees rejected the oral tradition and its laws. They are largely associated with the Hellenized, corrupt priestly class cultivated by the Romans.</p>
<p>So Pharisee means 2 things:<br />
1. Those who uphold the oral tradition of interpretation (perush).<br />
2. Those who remained separate (parash) from the general trend of Hellenic culture and assimilation into the Roman empire.</p>
<p>There are other sects at this time such as the Essenes.</p>
<p>Orthodox Jews are the direct descendants of the Pharisees. This has been mainstream Judaism for 2000 years. </p>
<p>The modern era has seen new versions of the sadducee approach and other attempts by assimilating Jews to reduce Judaism to universal principles and shed its restrictions &#8211; so-called &#8220;Reform Judaism&#8221; and &#8220;Reconstructionist Judaism&#8221;.</p>
<p>Without insulting anyone else&#8217;s understanding of Jesus: the Talmud&#8217;s take on the man called Jesus is that he started out as a student of a Pharisee teacher, then became &#8220;radicalized&#8221; &#8211; both religiously and politically. He is one of tens of thousands of young scholar-soldiers who joined the revolt against Rome. There were many more than 3 crucifixes on the Jerusalem skyline in that era.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575597</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 21:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575597</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They clearly did believe he&#039;d gone overboard. In fact, they thought him a blasphemer.

As a matter of interest, Arabic-speaking Christians still call him &quot;Yeshua,&quot; not the Muslim &quot;Issa,&quot; who is quite a different character in their ideology.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They clearly did believe he&#8217;d gone overboard. In fact, they thought him a blasphemer.</p>
<p>As a matter of interest, Arabic-speaking Christians still call him &#8220;Yeshua,&#8221; not the Muslim &#8220;Issa,&#8221; who is quite a different character in their ideology.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575572</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575572</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Barry Meislin.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Barry Meislin.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jesus himself was a rabbi of the Pharisee school (or group)---the word &quot;pharisee&quot; coming from the Hebrew &quot;peh-rush&quot;, which means &quot;interpretation&quot; or &quot;meaning&quot;.

(Gosh, a Jew criticizing other Jews! Whodathunkit??)

The religio-ideological opponents of the Perusheem (i.e., Pharisees&quot;) were the Zadokim (or &quot;Sadducees&quot;) named after high priest called Zadok (pronounced Tzadok, a word related to &quot;Tzedek&quot; (justice) and &quot;Tzedakah&quot; (charity or justness). This was (or had become by Herodian times) an elitist, priestly class whose ideology and rulings were believed by the Perusheem  to be essentially counter to Jewish law and the spirit of that law (in the sense of being archaic, unevolved and politically motivated).

So, yes, it is rather ironic that the &quot;Pharisees&quot; have become the villains of the drama, though clearly, Yeshua&#039;s Pharisee colleagues may have believed that their fellow Pharisee had, in some of his interpretations, gone overboard...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus himself was a rabbi of the Pharisee school (or group)&#8212;the word &#8220;pharisee&#8221; coming from the Hebrew &#8220;peh-rush&#8221;, which means &#8220;interpretation&#8221; or &#8220;meaning&#8221;.</p>
<p>(Gosh, a Jew criticizing other Jews! Whodathunkit??)</p>
<p>The religio-ideological opponents of the Perusheem (i.e., Pharisees&#8221;) were the Zadokim (or &#8220;Sadducees&#8221;) named after high priest called Zadok (pronounced Tzadok, a word related to &#8220;Tzedek&#8221; (justice) and &#8220;Tzedakah&#8221; (charity or justness). This was (or had become by Herodian times) an elitist, priestly class whose ideology and rulings were believed by the Perusheem  to be essentially counter to Jewish law and the spirit of that law (in the sense of being archaic, unevolved and politically motivated).</p>
<p>So, yes, it is rather ironic that the &#8220;Pharisees&#8221; have become the villains of the drama, though clearly, Yeshua&#8217;s Pharisee colleagues may have believed that their fellow Pharisee had, in some of his interpretations, gone overboard&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575560</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 19:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575560</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BenDavid, I won&#039;t argue your point #2; this isn&#039;t the time and place, and this thread is about mutual respect, anyhow. But I do want to know whether what I&#039;ve been told is correct, that is, that of the various Jewish sects and ways of thinking in existence around the time of Jesus, the one that became the mainstream of the continuing Judaism following the destruction of the Second Temple was the Pharisees.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BenDavid, I won&#8217;t argue your point #2; this isn&#8217;t the time and place, and this thread is about mutual respect, anyhow. But I do want to know whether what I&#8217;ve been told is correct, that is, that of the various Jewish sects and ways of thinking in existence around the time of Jesus, the one that became the mainstream of the continuing Judaism following the destruction of the Second Temple was the Pharisees.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575545</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 19:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575545</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What I said originally.
__________________________________

&lt;i&gt;As I recall, Pope John Paul II once said that to be a good Catholic one must first be a good Jew. Which sounded like a woopsie to me.

I can imagine why he would say that, but I’m not sure his Jewish friends would entirely appreciate it.

Still, JP II worked hard to mend fences with Jews. Due credit.&lt;/i&gt;
__________________________________

Which IMO covers much of the conversation since.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I said originally.<br />
__________________________________</p>
<p><i>As I recall, Pope John Paul II once said that to be a good Catholic one must first be a good Jew. Which sounded like a woopsie to me.</p>
<p>I can imagine why he would say that, but I’m not sure his Jewish friends would entirely appreciate it.</p>
<p>Still, JP II worked hard to mend fences with Jews. Due credit.</i><br />
__________________________________</p>
<p>Which IMO covers much of the conversation since.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BenDavid		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575541</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BenDavid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 19:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575541</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[1. To save a life it is definitely permitted to violate the Sabbath or suspend other observances. This is learned from Leviticus 18:5:

Keep My statutes and My ordinances, which if a man do, he shall live by them: I am the LORD.

The Talmud&#039;s gloss on this: (the commandments were given) that they shall live by them - and not that they should die from them.

2. Most New Testament stories of the Pharisees are axe-grinding and innaccurate, and often occur in the later books written by Gentiles who never set foot in Judea. They reflect a later period of Christian anger at Jewish rejection of the sect that had drifted too far from Judaism - in particular, the split caused by recasting Jesus from a flesh-and-blood messiah to a godhead. These stories are the first instances of Christian demonization of Jews.

3. Pope John Paul&#039;s rapprochement with Judaism stemmed from his up-close experiences of WW2 and communism. Like President Reagan he was one of the first to articulate the cultural and moral dangers facing the Judeo Christian West, and he attempted to cleanse the Church of 60s &quot;liberation theology&quot; radicalism. So statements like Nostre Aetate were a sort of warning that &quot;if we don&#039;t hang together we shall hang separately&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. To save a life it is definitely permitted to violate the Sabbath or suspend other observances. This is learned from Leviticus 18:5:</p>
<p>Keep My statutes and My ordinances, which if a man do, he shall live by them: I am the LORD.</p>
<p>The Talmud&#8217;s gloss on this: (the commandments were given) that they shall live by them &#8211; and not that they should die from them.</p>
<p>2. Most New Testament stories of the Pharisees are axe-grinding and innaccurate, and often occur in the later books written by Gentiles who never set foot in Judea. They reflect a later period of Christian anger at Jewish rejection of the sect that had drifted too far from Judaism &#8211; in particular, the split caused by recasting Jesus from a flesh-and-blood messiah to a godhead. These stories are the first instances of Christian demonization of Jews.</p>
<p>3. Pope John Paul&#8217;s rapprochement with Judaism stemmed from his up-close experiences of WW2 and communism. Like President Reagan he was one of the first to articulate the cultural and moral dangers facing the Judeo Christian West, and he attempted to cleanse the Church of 60s &#8220;liberation theology&#8221; radicalism. So statements like Nostre Aetate were a sort of warning that &#8220;if we don&#8217;t hang together we shall hang separately&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575537</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 18:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575537</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rufus T. Firefly:

You didn&#039;t aggravate or annoy me in the least.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rufus T. Firefly:</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t aggravate or annoy me in the least.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rufus T. Firefly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/09/06/the-jewish-new-year-begins-tonight/#comment-2575534</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rufus T. Firefly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2021 18:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=110268#comment-2575534</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes! My 2:16pm comment was absolutely meant in jest.

I seem to be having trouble communicating clearly today. You, huxley and Kate are all level headed folks and I&#039;ve seemed to aggravate all three of you. I best take a break, burn a few thousand calories exercising, and try to clear my muddled noggin&#039;.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams quoting God, &quot;I apologize for the inconvenience.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! My 2:16pm comment was absolutely meant in jest.</p>
<p>I seem to be having trouble communicating clearly today. You, huxley and Kate are all level headed folks and I&#8217;ve seemed to aggravate all three of you. I best take a break, burn a few thousand calories exercising, and try to clear my muddled noggin&#8217;.</p>
<p>To paraphrase Douglas Adams quoting God, &#8220;I apologize for the inconvenience.&#8221;</p>
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