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	Comments on: For Memorial Day: on nationalism and patriotism	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 08:19:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556777</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 08:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556777</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;...why the term ‘Judeo-Christian’ pretty much did not exist prior to late 1930s.&quot;

An interesting question. 

And yet, the founding fathers certainly knew---and appreciated---their Old Testament. And quoted from it. And developed their views on Liberty from it. Ditto for Lincoln and no doubt for numerous others. Keeping in mind that the OT was revered by the Puritans and that (Biblical) Hebrew was one of the three Classical languages taught and studied at elite colleges/universities from their inception in the late 18th C., for most of the 19th C. and perhaps even a bit after that. (E.g., the word for &quot;Truth&quot;, in Hebrew, appears on the seal of Yale U., which seems like a bit of a sick joke these days, but is still historically relevant.)

Perhaps one reason why the actual term is of relatively recent vintage is because the Jewish connection to Christianity was fully understood and recognized implicitly; and/or the BELIEF that the dominant religion---i.e., Christianity (though itself beset by intramural divisions, competition and, even, hostility)---had developed from Judaism, built on it, added to Judaism and improved upon it (and that this was so obvious) such that it was NOT necessary to even mention Judaism. Perhaps.... Added to which was a not uncommon, if related, view that Judaism, qua religion, was itself degraded and incomplete, stale, legalistic and lacking a future. A relic from another age...(which, parenthetically, was a major reason why the establishment of the Jewish State in 1948 came as such a shock to those who were absolutely certain that such an occurrence was a theological anomaly, a religious impossibility...)

Which views began to evolve in the 20th C., at least in some places and among some people...which evolving views were motivated, perhaps in part, by the wholesale jettisoning of ALL religion, generally, by the radicals of the 19th and 20th centuries....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;why the term ‘Judeo-Christian’ pretty much did not exist prior to late 1930s.&#8221;</p>
<p>An interesting question. </p>
<p>And yet, the founding fathers certainly knew&#8212;and appreciated&#8212;their Old Testament. And quoted from it. And developed their views on Liberty from it. Ditto for Lincoln and no doubt for numerous others. Keeping in mind that the OT was revered by the Puritans and that (Biblical) Hebrew was one of the three Classical languages taught and studied at elite colleges/universities from their inception in the late 18th C., for most of the 19th C. and perhaps even a bit after that. (E.g., the word for &#8220;Truth&#8221;, in Hebrew, appears on the seal of Yale U., which seems like a bit of a sick joke these days, but is still historically relevant.)</p>
<p>Perhaps one reason why the actual term is of relatively recent vintage is because the Jewish connection to Christianity was fully understood and recognized implicitly; and/or the BELIEF that the dominant religion&#8212;i.e., Christianity (though itself beset by intramural divisions, competition and, even, hostility)&#8212;had developed from Judaism, built on it, added to Judaism and improved upon it (and that this was so obvious) such that it was NOT necessary to even mention Judaism. Perhaps&#8230;. Added to which was a not uncommon, if related, view that Judaism, qua religion, was itself degraded and incomplete, stale, legalistic and lacking a future. A relic from another age&#8230;(which, parenthetically, was a major reason why the establishment of the Jewish State in 1948 came as such a shock to those who were absolutely certain that such an occurrence was a theological anomaly, a religious impossibility&#8230;)</p>
<p>Which views began to evolve in the 20th C., at least in some places and among some people&#8230;which evolving views were motivated, perhaps in part, by the wholesale jettisoning of ALL religion, generally, by the radicals of the 19th and 20th centuries&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556768</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 05:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556768</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yep Mecca, Medina, and Istanbul have been the three pillars of intellectual development for the last 1200 years. So much so that all the advances of worldwide civilization are in their debt; even the Chinese are awed.  After all, the industrial revolution and modern economic systems are totally dependent on the knowledge that came from the Arab/Turkic nexus.  Even Africa, that modern wonder, owes its magnificence to the gentle prodding and  encouragement of the Islamic culture.  Right, Zaphod?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep Mecca, Medina, and Istanbul have been the three pillars of intellectual development for the last 1200 years. So much so that all the advances of worldwide civilization are in their debt; even the Chinese are awed.  After all, the industrial revolution and modern economic systems are totally dependent on the knowledge that came from the Arab/Turkic nexus.  Even Africa, that modern wonder, owes its magnificence to the gentle prodding and  encouragement of the Islamic culture.  Right, Zaphod?</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556766</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 05:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556766</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I see BPS Black Pidgeon Speaks as a fellow traveller. I guess that you don’t tells me about your self-limitations more than about Felix Rex.

About the rest, you really ought to catch up with new scholarship outside your conspiracist wheelhouse.
https://www.nas.org/reports/the-lost-history-of-western-civilization

There really are alternative facts to be faced if you are ever to gain traction outside there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see BPS Black Pidgeon Speaks as a fellow traveller. I guess that you don’t tells me about your self-limitations more than about Felix Rex.</p>
<p>About the rest, you really ought to catch up with new scholarship outside your conspiracist wheelhouse.<br />
<a href="https://www.nas.org/reports/the-lost-history-of-western-civilization" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nas.org/reports/the-lost-history-of-western-civilization</a></p>
<p>There really are alternative facts to be faced if you are ever to gain traction outside there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556764</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 04:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556764</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@TJ:

For extra points, can you see if you can posit a reasonable theory as to why the term &#039;Judeo-Christian&#039; pretty much did not exist prior to late 1930s? I mean really Think. Agitate those neurons. It doesn&#039;t have to be nefarious conspiracy... but imagine what you would do if you were feeling just a bit insecure in other people&#039;s lands and had the very great gift of the literary gab: you&#039;d work overtime to retcon yourself into everything that made the West the Best. Hellooo Straussians! By the time you&#039;d half finished, you&#039;d be so goddam grafted-on that only the most perverse plant pathologist would feel comfortable mentioning it in polite company.

Islamic scholarship helped transmit some lost largeish bits of classical civilization to Christendom in the Middle Ages. So did Jewish Scholarship. For both we are grateful for at least those contributions. Both these civilizations also made their own intellectual contributions and some of that was transmitted to the West to our undoubted benefit. Very good.

However, we don&#039;t speak of Islamo-Christian Civilization. Do we now? Critical Thinking Cap, Old Chap.

Related Civilizations yes. Castor and Pollux? Think more Castor Oil and Lox: goes down very easily but systemic issues may ensue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TJ:</p>
<p>For extra points, can you see if you can posit a reasonable theory as to why the term &#8216;Judeo-Christian&#8217; pretty much did not exist prior to late 1930s? I mean really Think. Agitate those neurons. It doesn&#8217;t have to be nefarious conspiracy&#8230; but imagine what you would do if you were feeling just a bit insecure in other people&#8217;s lands and had the very great gift of the literary gab: you&#8217;d work overtime to retcon yourself into everything that made the West the Best. Hellooo Straussians! By the time you&#8217;d half finished, you&#8217;d be so goddam grafted-on that only the most perverse plant pathologist would feel comfortable mentioning it in polite company.</p>
<p>Islamic scholarship helped transmit some lost largeish bits of classical civilization to Christendom in the Middle Ages. So did Jewish Scholarship. For both we are grateful for at least those contributions. Both these civilizations also made their own intellectual contributions and some of that was transmitted to the West to our undoubted benefit. Very good.</p>
<p>However, we don&#8217;t speak of Islamo-Christian Civilization. Do we now? Critical Thinking Cap, Old Chap.</p>
<p>Related Civilizations yes. Castor and Pollux? Think more Castor Oil and Lox: goes down very easily but systemic issues may ensue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556760</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 04:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556760</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@TJ: Your heart is in the right place, but please, please try to dig a bit deeper sometimes and not be a Boy Scout.

Felix Rex walked down Takeshita-dori in Harajuku recently making one of his rambling videos and couldn&#039;t even pronounce it remotely right after however many years in Japan. He&#039;s got a nice ad-revenue thing going. Cool.

But Puhleeeese. The guy knows a bit about rescuing birds and appreciating YP and public cleanliness and manners... I don&#039;t think I&#039;d be looking to him for deeper insights into Japanese history and psyche.

If your other friend comes from Kumamoto then you better ask him about Saigo Takamori.

I&#039;m offensive, I get it. I&#039;m also shallow and ignorant about many things. But I tend to know what I don&#039;t know. &#060;--- this.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TJ: Your heart is in the right place, but please, please try to dig a bit deeper sometimes and not be a Boy Scout.</p>
<p>Felix Rex walked down Takeshita-dori in Harajuku recently making one of his rambling videos and couldn&#8217;t even pronounce it remotely right after however many years in Japan. He&#8217;s got a nice ad-revenue thing going. Cool.</p>
<p>But Puhleeeese. The guy knows a bit about rescuing birds and appreciating YP and public cleanliness and manners&#8230; I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d be looking to him for deeper insights into Japanese history and psyche.</p>
<p>If your other friend comes from Kumamoto then you better ask him about Saigo Takamori.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m offensive, I get it. I&#8217;m also shallow and ignorant about many things. But I tend to know what I don&#8217;t know. &lt;&#8212; this.</p>
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		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556757</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 04:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556757</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That’s not what Youtuber Felix Rex (“Black Pigeon Speaks”) says, a Canadian living in Tokyo for about a decade. Nor is it what my friend from Kumamoto, Japan.

YMMV.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s not what Youtuber Felix Rex (“Black Pigeon Speaks”) says, a Canadian living in Tokyo for about a decade. Nor is it what my friend from Kumamoto, Japan.</p>
<p>YMMV.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556755</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 04:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556755</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@TJ:

&quot;Even the Japanese see theWest — until quite recently — as their moral teacher.&quot;

Nope. Not in this sorry node of the Quantum Multiverse they did not.

They saw the West as something they had better catch up with double quick fast in order to *not* lose their collective soul. As part of said catching up, two more outward-looking feudal domains with axes to grind rolled their Tokugawa overlords and picked a handy figurehead -- the Meiji Emperor. A biographical sketch of Fukuzawa Yukichi (who graces the 10,000 Yen banknote) will supply some nuance.

Eventually they got a bit side-tracked and bit off more than they could chew militarily and now they *have* lost their collective soul. Poor crazy genius Mishima lost his head over that tragedy.

But Moral Teacher? The West? It is to laugh.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TJ:</p>
<p>&#8220;Even the Japanese see theWest — until quite recently — as their moral teacher.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nope. Not in this sorry node of the Quantum Multiverse they did not.</p>
<p>They saw the West as something they had better catch up with double quick fast in order to *not* lose their collective soul. As part of said catching up, two more outward-looking feudal domains with axes to grind rolled their Tokugawa overlords and picked a handy figurehead &#8212; the Meiji Emperor. A biographical sketch of Fukuzawa Yukichi (who graces the 10,000 Yen banknote) will supply some nuance.</p>
<p>Eventually they got a bit side-tracked and bit off more than they could chew militarily and now they *have* lost their collective soul. Poor crazy genius Mishima lost his head over that tragedy.</p>
<p>But Moral Teacher? The West? It is to laugh.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556753</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 03:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556753</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[C’mon, Zaph — FREE WILL! Obey God!

Even the Japanese see theWest — until quite recently — as their moral teacher.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C’mon, Zaph — FREE WILL! Obey God!</p>
<p>Even the Japanese see theWest — until quite recently — as their moral teacher.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556752</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 03:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556752</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Europe wound up achieving something amazing and admirable and unprecedented after the Judeo-Christian, classical synthesis&quot;

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Judeo-Christian&#038;year_start=1800&#038;year_end=2019&#038;corpus=26&#038;smoothing=3&#038;direct_url=t1%3B%2CJudeo%20-%20Christian%3B%2Cc0

You don&#039;t say.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Europe wound up achieving something amazing and admirable and unprecedented after the Judeo-Christian, classical synthesis&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Judeo-Christian&#038;year_start=1800&#038;year_end=2019&#038;corpus=26&#038;smoothing=3&#038;direct_url=t1%3B%2CJudeo%20-%20Christian%3B%2Cc0" rel="nofollow ugc">https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Judeo-Christian&#038;year_start=1800&#038;year_end=2019&#038;corpus=26&#038;smoothing=3&#038;direct_url=t1%3B%2CJudeo%20-%20Christian%3B%2Cc0</a></p>
<p>You don&#8217;t say.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/05/24/for-memorial-day-on-nationalism-and-patriotism-5/#comment-2556751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2021 03:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=107405#comment-2556751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Europe wound up achieving something amazing and admirable and unprecedented after the Judeo-Christian, classical synthesis (ie, the Middle Ages and the Renaissance), simply by the Ruling Class competing and struggling to sustain themselves, resulting in the nation-state system that’s the norm today.

That’s one way to answer Hbdchick’s question. And it’s something neither understood by neoMarxists and PoMo’s nor taught to our corrupt and ignorant young.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Europe wound up achieving something amazing and admirable and unprecedented after the Judeo-Christian, classical synthesis (ie, the Middle Ages and the Renaissance), simply by the Ruling Class competing and struggling to sustain themselves, resulting in the nation-state system that’s the norm today.</p>
<p>That’s one way to answer Hbdchick’s question. And it’s something neither understood by neoMarxists and PoMo’s nor taught to our corrupt and ignorant young.</p>
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