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	Comments on: Were the lockdowns the worst public health decision in 100 years?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546801</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2021 01:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546801</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;If we are just considering America, the decision to close down mental health institutions and let their patients fend for themselves as homeless street residents has to rank up at the top. &lt;/i&gt;

AesopFan:

That&#039;s good competition for the lockdown! Not a day goes by when I&#039;m sitting in my cafe, watching the homeless crazies on Central Ave. -- called &quot;ravers&quot; here for the loud conversations they have themselves -- that I don&#039;t think about it.

It wouldn&#039;t surprise me if there were some bad science behind deinstitutionalization. But there were already several forces at work, including the lobotomies and harsh electroshock treatments which were way out of control at the time and damaging people.

Perhaps you were thinking of Thomas Szasz, author of &quot;The Myth of Mental Illness&quot; who played an important part. He didn&#039;t fake any research so far as I know. 

There was the hope then that the mentally ill might be peculiar for whatever reasons but that institutions made them worse. Which might be true to a point, but the real problem is there are no great solutions for mental illness. Today&#039;s meds are as good as it gets for the seriously ill, but they are unpleasant and tend to make people gain weight or worse.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If we are just considering America, the decision to close down mental health institutions and let their patients fend for themselves as homeless street residents has to rank up at the top. </i></p>
<p>AesopFan:</p>
<p>That&#8217;s good competition for the lockdown! Not a day goes by when I&#8217;m sitting in my cafe, watching the homeless crazies on Central Ave. &#8212; called &#8220;ravers&#8221; here for the loud conversations they have themselves &#8212; that I don&#8217;t think about it.</p>
<p>It wouldn&#8217;t surprise me if there were some bad science behind deinstitutionalization. But there were already several forces at work, including the lobotomies and harsh electroshock treatments which were way out of control at the time and damaging people.</p>
<p>Perhaps you were thinking of Thomas Szasz, author of &#8220;The Myth of Mental Illness&#8221; who played an important part. He didn&#8217;t fake any research so far as I know. </p>
<p>There was the hope then that the mentally ill might be peculiar for whatever reasons but that institutions made them worse. Which might be true to a point, but the real problem is there are no great solutions for mental illness. Today&#8217;s meds are as good as it gets for the seriously ill, but they are unpleasant and tend to make people gain weight or worse.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546793</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2021 00:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546793</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Susanamantha - I read about that story also, although it was not the one with the bad &quot;study&quot; that I referred to.
I suspect they worked together in moving governments (at all levels) to the point of closing the facilities without doing due diligence to see if there was any real scientific or public policy basis.  There were budget considerations as well, with the feds and states and local and private levels all tossing the hot potato from one to the other.

Another case of jumping off the cliff because somebody with pull had an emotional (not logical or rational) ax to grind.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susanamantha &#8211; I read about that story also, although it was not the one with the bad &#8220;study&#8221; that I referred to.<br />
I suspect they worked together in moving governments (at all levels) to the point of closing the facilities without doing due diligence to see if there was any real scientific or public policy basis.  There were budget considerations as well, with the feds and states and local and private levels all tossing the hot potato from one to the other.</p>
<p>Another case of jumping off the cliff because somebody with pull had an emotional (not logical or rational) ax to grind.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Susanamantha		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susanamantha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan, I read a book a year or two ago connecting JFK&#039;s family&#039;s abhorrence of the pater familias&#039; treatment of his daughter Rosemary who was mentally ill in some way or another. Her lobotomy and eventual institutionalization so revolted her siblings that they lobbied against the existence of mental facilities. As you said, this resulted in the closure of many and the release of many who were incapable of, or in some cases unwilling to, continuing therapy, drugs or otherwise, in hastily organized clinics. This must be considered as you said one of the worst public health decisions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan, I read a book a year or two ago connecting JFK&#8217;s family&#8217;s abhorrence of the pater familias&#8217; treatment of his daughter Rosemary who was mentally ill in some way or another. Her lobotomy and eventual institutionalization so revolted her siblings that they lobbied against the existence of mental facilities. As you said, this resulted in the closure of many and the release of many who were incapable of, or in some cases unwilling to, continuing therapy, drugs or otherwise, in hastily organized clinics. This must be considered as you said one of the worst public health decisions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546674</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546674</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If we are just considering America, the decision to close down mental health institutions and let their patients fend for themselves as homeless street residents has to rank up at the top. It was also precipitated by fraudulent &quot;science.&quot;

True to Google, I can&#039;t find the article I know I read about the doctor who simply made up his data to show what evil things mental hospitals were (they did have serious problems, but not the ones he cited), but at least people are now recognizing that maybe they didn&#039;t quite solve the problem the way they thought they had.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/02/28/closing-mental-institutions-made-us-vulnerable-mass-shootings/
https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/567477160/how-the-loss-of-u-s-psychiatric-hospitals-led-to-a-mental-health-crisis

Also, the US-led decision to quit using DDT, for the health of the environment and by extension its inhabitants, contributed directly to the deaths of millions of Africans from malaria.
It was also precipitated by fraudulent &quot;science.&quot;

https://www.straightdope.com/21343558/was-rachel-carson-a-fraud-and-is-ddt-actually-safe-for-humans

I&#039;m sure you are all surprised.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we are just considering America, the decision to close down mental health institutions and let their patients fend for themselves as homeless street residents has to rank up at the top. It was also precipitated by fraudulent &#8220;science.&#8221;</p>
<p>True to Google, I can&#8217;t find the article I know I read about the doctor who simply made up his data to show what evil things mental hospitals were (they did have serious problems, but not the ones he cited), but at least people are now recognizing that maybe they didn&#8217;t quite solve the problem the way they thought they had.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html</a><br />
<a href="https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/02/28/closing-mental-institutions-made-us-vulnerable-mass-shootings/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/02/28/closing-mental-institutions-made-us-vulnerable-mass-shootings/</a><br />
<a href="https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/567477160/how-the-loss-of-u-s-psychiatric-hospitals-led-to-a-mental-health-crisis" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/567477160/how-the-loss-of-u-s-psychiatric-hospitals-led-to-a-mental-health-crisis</a></p>
<p>Also, the US-led decision to quit using DDT, for the health of the environment and by extension its inhabitants, contributed directly to the deaths of millions of Africans from malaria.<br />
It was also precipitated by fraudulent &#8220;science.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="https://www.straightdope.com/21343558/was-rachel-carson-a-fraud-and-is-ddt-actually-safe-for-humans" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.straightdope.com/21343558/was-rachel-carson-a-fraud-and-is-ddt-actually-safe-for-humans</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you are all surprised.</p>
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		<title>
		By: A Life of Everlasting Lockdowns Under Biden? &#124; al fin next level		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546607</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Life of Everlasting Lockdowns Under Biden? &#124; al fin next level]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2021 20:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546607</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] The Decline and Collapse of Public Health Agencies [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] The Decline and Collapse of Public Health Agencies [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Micha Elyi		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546577</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Micha Elyi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546577</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Q. Were the lockdowns the worst public health decision in 100 years?
A. No.

The so-called lockdowns weren&#039;t really lockdowns at all. Generally, people had no enforced State enforced restrictions on their choices to move about and travel outside of their homes quite freely.

Should another much more dangerous pandemic disease strike, I expect that this pandemic&#039;s pooh-poohers will do their best to avoid, dodge, delay, block, and minimize every prudent response.

P.S. I remember the Democrats, especially of the hard-left persuasion, who have been openly vaccine-avoidant. Not gonna take no Trump vaccine, no siree! Particular examples are now-VP Kamala Harris and California Gov. Gavin Newsom. Now they&#039;re trying to steal credit for it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q. Were the lockdowns the worst public health decision in 100 years?<br />
A. No.</p>
<p>The so-called lockdowns weren&#8217;t really lockdowns at all. Generally, people had no enforced State enforced restrictions on their choices to move about and travel outside of their homes quite freely.</p>
<p>Should another much more dangerous pandemic disease strike, I expect that this pandemic&#8217;s pooh-poohers will do their best to avoid, dodge, delay, block, and minimize every prudent response.</p>
<p>P.S. I remember the Democrats, especially of the hard-left persuasion, who have been openly vaccine-avoidant. Not gonna take no Trump vaccine, no siree! Particular examples are now-VP Kamala Harris and California Gov. Gavin Newsom. Now they&#8217;re trying to steal credit for it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Atheist Conservative: &#187; Bad decisions		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546569</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Atheist Conservative: &#187; Bad decisions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2021 18:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546569</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Read it all here. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Read it all here. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dnaxy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dnaxy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2021 17:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Ro has to go down if the virus is coughed up from a patient, floats around in the air for awhile, and it finds no other human to land upon. This makes lockdowns sound worthwhile.  

But if lockdowns empirically in fact do not work, that voids this theory. It doesn&#039;t make any difference if the theory makes sense and has perfect logic and that we want to believe it. It&#039;s wrong.

How could lockdowns not work?

Here is an idea: People in lockdowns do have leakages. They have to open the door and allow food and meds to be delivered. They have to occasionally go to the supermarket and go to the dentist and doctor or clinic. They once in awhile hug a grandkid or a relative or yell at a nearby neighbor. They have to get gas in their cars. They cannot wipe down everything perfectly.

If the Covid virus was exquisitely contagious, like measles or chickenpox, and if the virus did pass via fomites occasionally, these rare contacts between the lockdown-ees and the outside world would be enough to keep the Ro above one. One kid in a hospital with chickenpox gives everyone in the hospital chickenpox unless they have had it before. 

Another possibility: We are primates. As animals we are a mess. If you were walking a bunch of chimps as a volunteer in your local zoo, would the chimps stay together and follow your directions? Perhaps lockdowns are simply violated so much on the QT that they are just not effective?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Ro has to go down if the virus is coughed up from a patient, floats around in the air for awhile, and it finds no other human to land upon. This makes lockdowns sound worthwhile.  </p>
<p>But if lockdowns empirically in fact do not work, that voids this theory. It doesn&#8217;t make any difference if the theory makes sense and has perfect logic and that we want to believe it. It&#8217;s wrong.</p>
<p>How could lockdowns not work?</p>
<p>Here is an idea: People in lockdowns do have leakages. They have to open the door and allow food and meds to be delivered. They have to occasionally go to the supermarket and go to the dentist and doctor or clinic. They once in awhile hug a grandkid or a relative or yell at a nearby neighbor. They have to get gas in their cars. They cannot wipe down everything perfectly.</p>
<p>If the Covid virus was exquisitely contagious, like measles or chickenpox, and if the virus did pass via fomites occasionally, these rare contacts between the lockdown-ees and the outside world would be enough to keep the Ro above one. One kid in a hospital with chickenpox gives everyone in the hospital chickenpox unless they have had it before. </p>
<p>Another possibility: We are primates. As animals we are a mess. If you were walking a bunch of chimps as a volunteer in your local zoo, would the chimps stay together and follow your directions? Perhaps lockdowns are simply violated so much on the QT that they are just not effective?</p>
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		<title>
		By: JimNorCal		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546538</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JimNorCal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2021 15:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546538</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Frederick]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Frederick</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frederick		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/15/were-the-lockdowns-the-worst-public-health-decision-in-100-years/#comment-2546532</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frederick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105200#comment-2546532</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@R2l: &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.cms.gov/files/document/03092020-covid-19-faqs-508.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;FAQ from CMS on the COVID kicker.&lt;/a&gt; You&#039;re welcome for the 3 seconds I spent on Google.

Everyone in the health insurance industry knows about this...

Question: Are hospitals that are paid by Medicare through the Inpatient Prospective Payment System (IPPS) going to be paid using a special payment method during the COVID19 emergency? Is there a special DRG rate at which IPPS hospitals will be reimbursed for this situation?

Answer: There is no special DRG for COVID-19. Recent legislation in the CARES Act provides for increased IPPS payments during the emergency period for Medicare inpatients diagnosed with COVID-19. Further guidance on the implementation of this increased IPPS payment is forthcoming. Otherwise, normal prospective payment methodologies apply to hospitals’ discharges paid under the IPPS rate.
Posted: 3/6/20]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@R2l: <a href="https://www.cms.gov/files/document/03092020-covid-19-faqs-508.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">FAQ from CMS on the COVID kicker.</a> You&#8217;re welcome for the 3 seconds I spent on Google.</p>
<p>Everyone in the health insurance industry knows about this&#8230;</p>
<p>Question: Are hospitals that are paid by Medicare through the Inpatient Prospective Payment System (IPPS) going to be paid using a special payment method during the COVID19 emergency? Is there a special DRG rate at which IPPS hospitals will be reimbursed for this situation?</p>
<p>Answer: There is no special DRG for COVID-19. Recent legislation in the CARES Act provides for increased IPPS payments during the emergency period for Medicare inpatients diagnosed with COVID-19. Further guidance on the implementation of this increased IPPS payment is forthcoming. Otherwise, normal prospective payment methodologies apply to hospitals’ discharges paid under the IPPS rate.<br />
Posted: 3/6/20</p>
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