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	<title>
	Comments on: Open thread 3/10/21	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2021 04:27:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Grey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545763</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Grey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2021 04:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545763</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes Paul in Boston, thanks.

Here&#039;s a Leonard Cohen song not on his Greatest Hits albums.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nceRfJJZcP4&#038;list=RDJTTC_fD598A&#038;index=20 
It&#039;s live.
At the end he gives HIS answer to the mysteries.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Paul in Boston, thanks.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a Leonard Cohen song not on his Greatest Hits albums.<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nceRfJJZcP4&#038;list=RDJTTC_fD598A&#038;index=20" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nceRfJJZcP4&#038;list=RDJTTC_fD598A&#038;index=20</a><br />
It&#8217;s live.<br />
At the end he gives HIS answer to the mysteries.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545730</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2021 02:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545730</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is a report by an ex-Military guy who had a run-in with Antifa in Portland.

https://www.americanpartisan.org/2020/09/antifa-reality-check/

It&#039;s worth reading to get an idea of what Antifa tactics look like. Very sobering.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a report by an ex-Military guy who had a run-in with Antifa in Portland.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.americanpartisan.org/2020/09/antifa-reality-check/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.americanpartisan.org/2020/09/antifa-reality-check/</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth reading to get an idea of what Antifa tactics look like. Very sobering.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zaphod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545708</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaphod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2021 01:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545708</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Paul in Boston:

Very clear thanks!

I&#039;ve lost &#039;friends&#039; by pointing out that solar flux is not constant and said variations might make mockery of the puny efforts of Man. These would be the same people who quote all kinds of statistics on solar power being a no-brainer. Go figure.

I&#039;d like to see the carbon footprint figures for volcano eruptions in any given year vs. human contributions, too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul in Boston:</p>
<p>Very clear thanks!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lost &#8216;friends&#8217; by pointing out that solar flux is not constant and said variations might make mockery of the puny efforts of Man. These would be the same people who quote all kinds of statistics on solar power being a no-brainer. Go figure.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see the carbon footprint figures for volcano eruptions in any given year vs. human contributions, too.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Britain		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545702</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Britain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2021 01:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545702</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jackson Browne... such early promise. What a great disappointment. Far more often than not, celebrity draws the recipient into an echo chamber and strangles further growth.

He turned out to be just another liberal useful idiot. Sad.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jackson Browne&#8230; such early promise. What a great disappointment. Far more often than not, celebrity draws the recipient into an echo chamber and strangles further growth.</p>
<p>He turned out to be just another liberal useful idiot. Sad.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Britain		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545701</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Britain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2021 01:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545701</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Paul in Boston, thank you for the clearest explanation, that I have yet read, on the issue of global warming.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul in Boston, thank you for the clearest explanation, that I have yet read, on the issue of global warming.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul in Boston		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul in Boston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2021 23:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Xylourgos,, Phyicsguy, et. al.  Re: Global Warming and CO2.  

I’m a retired professional physicist like physicsguy. I’ve even released several Ph.D. students into the wild.  The smartest one became a Physics Prof. at U. Florida who gave it up to become a rich banker instead of chasing grants.

I once spent about six months looking into the whole CO2/Global Warming problem.  My conclusions are quite heretical:  the atmosphere is naturally quite hot and the so called greenhouse gases are just weak coolants.  They do nothing to heat the Earth’s surface.  The fatal flaw is that the models treat all the atmospheric heating as due to radiation and ignore the very large role played by conduction and convection.  They also violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics

You can do a simple experiment to understand the convection argument.  Light a candle and bring your open palm as close as possible to the side of the flame.  You’ll feel the heat coming off the flame via radiation, just as you do under a heat lamp or sunlight on your face.  Note how close you got to the flame.  

Next place your open palm over the top of the flame.  Be careful! It’s easy to burn your skin doing this.  Notice that you can’t come nearly as close to the flame this way compared to approaching from the side.  The heat you feel this way is air heated by contact with the flame which then rises by convection to your palm.  This is exactly how a hot air ballon works.

In the case of the Earth, sunlight heats the oceans(80% of the Earth’s surface), the water evaporates and rises via convection to the top of the atmosphere where the water vapor condenses into clouds, rain, and snow that in turn fall back to the Earth’s.  When the water vapor condenses it dumps large amounts of heat via radiation to outer space.  The net effect is to cool the earth.  None of this involves any greenhouse gas except water vapor and its radiative properties are irrelevant.  It works because water can change phases from solid to liquid to gas all at natural atmospheric temperatures.

The chemical engineers who design and build electric power plants that use steam driven generators, all the fossil fuel and nuclear plants, recognize this instantly as the Rankine thermodynamic cycle that governs the operation of such generators.  It was first developed by the engineer Rankine to understand and improve the operation of steam locomotives.

Without the condensation of the water vapor, the only way for the atmosphere to get rid of its heat would be via radiation of CO2, H2O vapor, and the other minor greenhouse gases.  That’s very inefficient resulting in a hot atmosphere.  I’ve debated this with a few people.  Everyone agrees that the temperature of the atmosphere at the surface would be well above the boiling point of water if the water vapor cycle didn’t exist.  I think that the atmosphere would have a constant temperature independent of height, the other guys think that the temperature would drop with altitude.  In any case, the atmosphere near the ground would be extremely hot, well above the boiling point of water, and make life impossible.

Next, the modelers also get the issue of back radiation wrong, claiming the CO2 radiates energy back to the Earth’s surface to heat it.  The back radiation is there alright but it can’t cause extra heating of the Earth’s surface, that would violate the Second Law of thermodynamics.  The Second Law says that heat naturally flows from a hotter body to a colder body.  If you put a hot pan on a kitchen counter, the pan will cool off and the counter will warm up.  The heats flows from the pan to the counter.  

Violation of the Second Law can be demonstrated with another experiment.  It’s easy to get cylinders of a pure gas such as nitrogen, oxygen, or argon, the three main constituents of the air, none of them a greenhouse gas.  You may have noticed one in your dentist’s office or in a hospital.  They’re very common for many uses.  If you place a thermometer inside the tank to measure the temperature of the gas, its temperature will be identical to the temperature of the tank’s surface which in turn will equal room temperature.  If room temperature changes the temperature of the gas will adjust to match.  

Suppose the cylinder is filled with carbon dioxide, the dreaded greenhouse gas.  Its temperature will track the surface of the tank that in turn will be equal to room temperature.  Unlike nitrogen, oxygen, or argon, it can absorb blackbody radiation emitted by the interior surface of the tank and then re-emit it to be reabsorbed by the  interior walls of the cylinder.  If you follow the modeler’s logic the reabsorption will be extra energy that should raise the temperature of the cylinder’s surface above room temperature.  Viola, by filling the tank with CO2 you created a heater that would throw off heat perpetually without using any fuel or electricity.  This is a violation of the Second Law.


Finally, there is another issue that I haven’t discussed:  the mathematics of solving the model equations precludes the ability to make meaningful predictions since the atmosphere is a chaotic system, i.e., the butterfly effect is in full force for the computations.  One small error and your predictions go off the rails after a short time.  The modelers even state that in one of the IPCC documents.  They then promptly ignore it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xylourgos,, Phyicsguy, et. al.  Re: Global Warming and CO2.  </p>
<p>I’m a retired professional physicist like physicsguy. I’ve even released several Ph.D. students into the wild.  The smartest one became a Physics Prof. at U. Florida who gave it up to become a rich banker instead of chasing grants.</p>
<p>I once spent about six months looking into the whole CO2/Global Warming problem.  My conclusions are quite heretical:  the atmosphere is naturally quite hot and the so called greenhouse gases are just weak coolants.  They do nothing to heat the Earth’s surface.  The fatal flaw is that the models treat all the atmospheric heating as due to radiation and ignore the very large role played by conduction and convection.  They also violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics</p>
<p>You can do a simple experiment to understand the convection argument.  Light a candle and bring your open palm as close as possible to the side of the flame.  You’ll feel the heat coming off the flame via radiation, just as you do under a heat lamp or sunlight on your face.  Note how close you got to the flame.  </p>
<p>Next place your open palm over the top of the flame.  Be careful! It’s easy to burn your skin doing this.  Notice that you can’t come nearly as close to the flame this way compared to approaching from the side.  The heat you feel this way is air heated by contact with the flame which then rises by convection to your palm.  This is exactly how a hot air ballon works.</p>
<p>In the case of the Earth, sunlight heats the oceans(80% of the Earth’s surface), the water evaporates and rises via convection to the top of the atmosphere where the water vapor condenses into clouds, rain, and snow that in turn fall back to the Earth’s.  When the water vapor condenses it dumps large amounts of heat via radiation to outer space.  The net effect is to cool the earth.  None of this involves any greenhouse gas except water vapor and its radiative properties are irrelevant.  It works because water can change phases from solid to liquid to gas all at natural atmospheric temperatures.</p>
<p>The chemical engineers who design and build electric power plants that use steam driven generators, all the fossil fuel and nuclear plants, recognize this instantly as the Rankine thermodynamic cycle that governs the operation of such generators.  It was first developed by the engineer Rankine to understand and improve the operation of steam locomotives.</p>
<p>Without the condensation of the water vapor, the only way for the atmosphere to get rid of its heat would be via radiation of CO2, H2O vapor, and the other minor greenhouse gases.  That’s very inefficient resulting in a hot atmosphere.  I’ve debated this with a few people.  Everyone agrees that the temperature of the atmosphere at the surface would be well above the boiling point of water if the water vapor cycle didn’t exist.  I think that the atmosphere would have a constant temperature independent of height, the other guys think that the temperature would drop with altitude.  In any case, the atmosphere near the ground would be extremely hot, well above the boiling point of water, and make life impossible.</p>
<p>Next, the modelers also get the issue of back radiation wrong, claiming the CO2 radiates energy back to the Earth’s surface to heat it.  The back radiation is there alright but it can’t cause extra heating of the Earth’s surface, that would violate the Second Law of thermodynamics.  The Second Law says that heat naturally flows from a hotter body to a colder body.  If you put a hot pan on a kitchen counter, the pan will cool off and the counter will warm up.  The heats flows from the pan to the counter.  </p>
<p>Violation of the Second Law can be demonstrated with another experiment.  It’s easy to get cylinders of a pure gas such as nitrogen, oxygen, or argon, the three main constituents of the air, none of them a greenhouse gas.  You may have noticed one in your dentist’s office or in a hospital.  They’re very common for many uses.  If you place a thermometer inside the tank to measure the temperature of the gas, its temperature will be identical to the temperature of the tank’s surface which in turn will equal room temperature.  If room temperature changes the temperature of the gas will adjust to match.  </p>
<p>Suppose the cylinder is filled with carbon dioxide, the dreaded greenhouse gas.  Its temperature will track the surface of the tank that in turn will be equal to room temperature.  Unlike nitrogen, oxygen, or argon, it can absorb blackbody radiation emitted by the interior surface of the tank and then re-emit it to be reabsorbed by the  interior walls of the cylinder.  If you follow the modeler’s logic the reabsorption will be extra energy that should raise the temperature of the cylinder’s surface above room temperature.  Viola, by filling the tank with CO2 you created a heater that would throw off heat perpetually without using any fuel or electricity.  This is a violation of the Second Law.</p>
<p>Finally, there is another issue that I haven’t discussed:  the mathematics of solving the model equations precludes the ability to make meaningful predictions since the atmosphere is a chaotic system, i.e., the butterfly effect is in full force for the computations.  One small error and your predictions go off the rails after a short time.  The modelers even state that in one of the IPCC documents.  They then promptly ignore it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545674</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2021 23:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545674</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[jack: &quot;Who bought all those migrants tee shirts at the southern border?&quot;

Those caravans are organized and financed by outfits like Pueblos Sin Fronteras. (A Soros backed  group?) These are not people  who just left Honduras or El Salvador with no outside help. It seems to be a plan to overrun our system and  break down all law and order. Until....El Supremo, whoever that may turn out to be, restores order with martial law.  At least that &#039;s what it appears to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jack: &#8220;Who bought all those migrants tee shirts at the southern border?&#8221;</p>
<p>Those caravans are organized and financed by outfits like Pueblos Sin Fronteras. (A Soros backed  group?) These are not people  who just left Honduras or El Salvador with no outside help. It seems to be a plan to overrun our system and  break down all law and order. Until&#8230;.El Supremo, whoever that may turn out to be, restores order with martial law.  At least that &#8216;s what it appears to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hubert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545666</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hubert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2021 23:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545666</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Found it:

https://www.thenewneo.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/

From 2009.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found it:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.thenewneo.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.thenewneo.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/</a></p>
<p>From 2009.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hubert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545664</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hubert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2021 22:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545664</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rufus,

Neo posted something years ago about John Updike&#039;s defense of LBJ against the sneers of the bien-pensants during the Vietnam War. Same thing: class disdain, but directed against a Democrat in that instance.

Thomas Jefferson (Virginia), Woodrow Wilson (Princeton), and Eisenhower (Columbia): the only college president presidents I can think of (rector, in Jefferson&#039;s case, and that was after he was president). Herbert Hoover graduated from Stanford, founded and took a lifelong interest in the Hoover Institution, and lived for many years in Palo Alto, but he was never a university administrator.

Robert E. Lee had a successful five-year term as president of Washington College (later Washington and Lee University) in Lexington, Virginia. More recently, David Boren served as the president of the University of Oklahoma.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rufus,</p>
<p>Neo posted something years ago about John Updike&#8217;s defense of LBJ against the sneers of the bien-pensants during the Vietnam War. Same thing: class disdain, but directed against a Democrat in that instance.</p>
<p>Thomas Jefferson (Virginia), Woodrow Wilson (Princeton), and Eisenhower (Columbia): the only college president presidents I can think of (rector, in Jefferson&#8217;s case, and that was after he was president). Herbert Hoover graduated from Stanford, founded and took a lifelong interest in the Hoover Institution, and lived for many years in Palo Alto, but he was never a university administrator.</p>
<p>Robert E. Lee had a successful five-year term as president of Washington College (later Washington and Lee University) in Lexington, Virginia. More recently, David Boren served as the president of the University of Oklahoma.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rufus T. Firefly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2021/03/10/open-thread-3-10-21/#comment-2545658</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rufus T. Firefly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2021 22:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=105005#comment-2545658</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This: https://thepostmillennial.com/french-schoolgirl-says-she-made-up-story-that-got-teacher-beheaded-by-muslim-radical
is awful. One man murdered and two to three other lives likely destroyed by a little girl&#039;s panicked lie to avoid punishment from her father.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The 13-year-old student who claimed that her teacher showed Muslim students a naked depiction of the prophet Muhammad has admitted that she was lying. This lie led to the beheading of that teacher.

The History and Geography teacher, Samuel Paty of Paris, France, was beheaded by a Muslim radical after the story the young girl told gained international attention.

&quot;She would not have dared to confess to her father the real reasons for her exclusion shortly before the tragedy, which was in fact linked to her bad behaviour,&quot; wrote Le Parisien.

Her father has now been arrested for &quot;complicity in a terrorist killing.&quot; Prosecutors say that the father&#039;s actions had a direct &quot;casual link&quot; to the teacher&#039;s death.

The 13-year-old faces slander charges.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This: <a href="https://thepostmillennial.com/french-schoolgirl-says-she-made-up-story-that-got-teacher-beheaded-by-muslim-radical" rel="nofollow ugc">https://thepostmillennial.com/french-schoolgirl-says-she-made-up-story-that-got-teacher-beheaded-by-muslim-radical</a><br />
is awful. One man murdered and two to three other lives likely destroyed by a little girl&#8217;s panicked lie to avoid punishment from her father.</p>
<blockquote><p>The 13-year-old student who claimed that her teacher showed Muslim students a naked depiction of the prophet Muhammad has admitted that she was lying. This lie led to the beheading of that teacher.</p>
<p>The History and Geography teacher, Samuel Paty of Paris, France, was beheaded by a Muslim radical after the story the young girl told gained international attention.</p>
<p>&#8220;She would not have dared to confess to her father the real reasons for her exclusion shortly before the tragedy, which was in fact linked to her bad behaviour,&#8221; wrote Le Parisien.</p>
<p>Her father has now been arrested for &#8220;complicity in a terrorist killing.&#8221; Prosecutors say that the father&#8217;s actions had a direct &#8220;casual link&#8221; to the teacher&#8217;s death.</p>
<p>The 13-year-old faces slander charges.</p></blockquote>
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