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	Comments on: Caring about truth, caring about liberty	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: David Foster		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518261</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Foster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2020 01:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518261</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[MBunge...&quot;But what is Miller’s opposition to Trump based on? It sure doesn’t seem to have anything to do with policy...No, Miller seems to oppose Trump solely because Miller is a self-consciously cosmopolitan New York pseudo-intellectual and Trump proudly is not.&quot;

Indeed,,,&quot;not our kind of people&quot; is a primary factor in Trump-hating, and not only among certain New Yorkers.

In the Holy Roman Empire (&#039;neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire&#039;, Bismarck summarized it), there was a small group of men called the Electors.  They, and only they, were allowed to vote on who would become the next Emperor.  In the US, we now have a group of people who consider themselves the Electors (a term I am using in a way that has nothing to do with the Electoral College)...while they may not get to make the final decision as to who becomes President, they believe they are entitled to vet who may and may not become a candidate.  Others need not apply.  Who are these people?...national journalists, Ivy League academics, senior government officials, and a few other categories.

The rage at Trump is largely about the fact that not only did he not have the approval of the Electors, he didn&#039;t and doesn&#039;t even particularly seek it.

If they succeed in destroying Trump, there may never again be a US president who achieves office without the approval of the Electors.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MBunge&#8230;&#8221;But what is Miller’s opposition to Trump based on? It sure doesn’t seem to have anything to do with policy&#8230;No, Miller seems to oppose Trump solely because Miller is a self-consciously cosmopolitan New York pseudo-intellectual and Trump proudly is not.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed,,,&#8221;not our kind of people&#8221; is a primary factor in Trump-hating, and not only among certain New Yorkers.</p>
<p>In the Holy Roman Empire (&#8216;neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire&#8217;, Bismarck summarized it), there was a small group of men called the Electors.  They, and only they, were allowed to vote on who would become the next Emperor.  In the US, we now have a group of people who consider themselves the Electors (a term I am using in a way that has nothing to do with the Electoral College)&#8230;while they may not get to make the final decision as to who becomes President, they believe they are entitled to vet who may and may not become a candidate.  Others need not apply.  Who are these people?&#8230;national journalists, Ivy League academics, senior government officials, and a few other categories.</p>
<p>The rage at Trump is largely about the fact that not only did he not have the approval of the Electors, he didn&#8217;t and doesn&#8217;t even particularly seek it.</p>
<p>If they succeed in destroying Trump, there may never again be a US president who achieves office without the approval of the Electors.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2020 15:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;One way I understand Democrats is that their programs since have been to proceed as though Roosevelt’s “Second Bill of Rights” was already in the Constitution because it should be. Hence, the legal decisions of judges who support the Democrats’ agenda.&quot; - huxley

You have that right, I think.
The discussions I&#039;ve seen about FDR&#039;s 2ndBR focus on its primary difference with the 1stBR: The original list consists of things that each person can claim without anyone else providing material support or even agreement (the Constitution only insists that the government, stay out of our way*); the Democrat wish-list entails co-opting someone else&#039;s money &#038; property and requires government intervention.

Liberty is a fundamental right; Democrats&#039; &quot;rights&quot; are entitlements.

https://nccs.net/blogs/americas-founding-documents/bill-of-rights-amendments-1-10

*Amendment 3, constraining the quartering troops in private homes, is a specific refutation of FDR, whose list of &quot;rights&quot; is analogous to quartering the rest of the world in your living room. Unfortunately, its loopholes of consent and provision of law are big enough for the &#039;Rats to crawl in, despite the shakiness of any attempted justification (which I don&#039;t think anyone has tried, but it&#039;s there).
Look what they did with the Commerce Clause!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One way I understand Democrats is that their programs since have been to proceed as though Roosevelt’s “Second Bill of Rights” was already in the Constitution because it should be. Hence, the legal decisions of judges who support the Democrats’ agenda.&#8221; &#8211; huxley</p>
<p>You have that right, I think.<br />
The discussions I&#8217;ve seen about FDR&#8217;s 2ndBR focus on its primary difference with the 1stBR: The original list consists of things that each person can claim without anyone else providing material support or even agreement (the Constitution only insists that the government, stay out of our way*); the Democrat wish-list entails co-opting someone else&#8217;s money &amp; property and requires government intervention.</p>
<p>Liberty is a fundamental right; Democrats&#8217; &#8220;rights&#8221; are entitlements.</p>
<p><a href="https://nccs.net/blogs/americas-founding-documents/bill-of-rights-amendments-1-10" rel="nofollow ugc">https://nccs.net/blogs/americas-founding-documents/bill-of-rights-amendments-1-10</a></p>
<p>*Amendment 3, constraining the quartering troops in private homes, is a specific refutation of FDR, whose list of &#8220;rights&#8221; is analogous to quartering the rest of the world in your living room. Unfortunately, its loopholes of consent and provision of law are big enough for the &#8216;Rats to crawl in, despite the shakiness of any attempted justification (which I don&#8217;t think anyone has tried, but it&#8217;s there).<br />
Look what they did with the Commerce Clause!</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518185</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2020 14:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518185</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The story of the undercover reporter is scary, but also encouraging.
Conservatives now include a transwoman - who used to be a tug boat captain! - with courage and commitment. Constitutional values and rational economics &#038; politics transcend the oddness of our current social, racial, and gender constructs.

Orwell’s “He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” 

But what about people who not only don&#039;t know about the past, but don&#039;t care?
One factor in Hillary&#039;s defeat is IMO that younger voters may have checked off her name, but they weren&#039;t voting FOR Hillary in the same way that our own generation of Democrats were.
The youth don&#039;t have an internalized investment in the Clintons or the Bidens, or the Congressional gerontocracy of both parties (including Pence and Harris, I suspect).
They may be more willing to judge candidates on present policy rather than a re-invented past.

https://libertyunyielding.com/2020/10/04/rasmussen-voters-under-40-say-trump-won-debate-and-even-changed-their-vote/

As for the younger Democrat candidates, I think Ilhan Omar is a local deal only (because of election fraud in the Somali community), but AOC is of their generation; maybe some voters are smart enough to see that she is not really helping them with their personal concerns.

I am very encouraged by the upcoming Republican cohort (Crenshaw et al) and hope they sweep the polls.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story of the undercover reporter is scary, but also encouraging.<br />
Conservatives now include a transwoman &#8211; who used to be a tug boat captain! &#8211; with courage and commitment. Constitutional values and rational economics &amp; politics transcend the oddness of our current social, racial, and gender constructs.</p>
<p>Orwell’s “He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” </p>
<p>But what about people who not only don&#8217;t know about the past, but don&#8217;t care?<br />
One factor in Hillary&#8217;s defeat is IMO that younger voters may have checked off her name, but they weren&#8217;t voting FOR Hillary in the same way that our own generation of Democrats were.<br />
The youth don&#8217;t have an internalized investment in the Clintons or the Bidens, or the Congressional gerontocracy of both parties (including Pence and Harris, I suspect).<br />
They may be more willing to judge candidates on present policy rather than a re-invented past.</p>
<p><a href="https://libertyunyielding.com/2020/10/04/rasmussen-voters-under-40-say-trump-won-debate-and-even-changed-their-vote/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://libertyunyielding.com/2020/10/04/rasmussen-voters-under-40-say-trump-won-debate-and-even-changed-their-vote/</a></p>
<p>As for the younger Democrat candidates, I think Ilhan Omar is a local deal only (because of election fraud in the Somali community), but AOC is of their generation; maybe some voters are smart enough to see that she is not really helping them with their personal concerns.</p>
<p>I am very encouraged by the upcoming Republican cohort (Crenshaw et al) and hope they sweep the polls.</p>
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		By: OBloodyHell		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518164</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OBloodyHell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2020 03:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518164</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Somewhat OT. This is scary:

&lt;b&gt;The Conservative Trans Woman Who Went Undercover With Antifa in Portland&lt;/b&gt;
https://reason.com/2020/10/02/the-conservative-trans-woman-who-went-undercover-with-antifa-in-portland/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat OT. This is scary:</p>
<p><b>The Conservative Trans Woman Who Went Undercover With Antifa in Portland</b><br />
<a href="https://reason.com/2020/10/02/the-conservative-trans-woman-who-went-undercover-with-antifa-in-portland/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://reason.com/2020/10/02/the-conservative-trans-woman-who-went-undercover-with-antifa-in-portland/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Grey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518158</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Grey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2020 03:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518158</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Truth is politically incorrect.

Blacks and Whites are different, 
men and women are different.
Americans and non-Americans are, legally, different.

Tho a great thing about America is that every legal immigrant into the US can become a Full American.

I can never become a Slovak, tho I can become a Slovak citizen (and my kids are Slovaks.)

Tribalism is bad, and the Dems are trying to create more of it in America - and the truth about the Dems is uncomfortable to those who want to hate Republicans.  Because they are tribal Democrats.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Truth is politically incorrect.</p>
<p>Blacks and Whites are different,<br />
men and women are different.<br />
Americans and non-Americans are, legally, different.</p>
<p>Tho a great thing about America is that every legal immigrant into the US can become a Full American.</p>
<p>I can never become a Slovak, tho I can become a Slovak citizen (and my kids are Slovaks.)</p>
<p>Tribalism is bad, and the Dems are trying to create more of it in America &#8211; and the truth about the Dems is uncomfortable to those who want to hate Republicans.  Because they are tribal Democrats.</p>
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		<title>
		By: OBloodyHell		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518144</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OBloodyHell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2020 00:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518144</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[}}} &lt;i&gt;“Right” is not exactly the same thing as “truth,” of course, because “be right” can be interpreted as “win arguments” &lt;/i&gt;

I won&#039;t say people don&#039;t misinterpret the term &quot;be right&quot; this way, but it&#039;s an invalid lefty kind of &quot;be right&quot;, not a valid one.

To be Right, you &lt;b&gt;must&lt;/b&gt; express the Truth. You can be right and still lose an argument, both by failing to make your case well, or by having the other person lack the intellectual honesty to ack your valid points.

The term &quot;Right&quot; in this context, is synonymous with &quot;Correct&quot;. How can you be &quot;correct&quot; if you aren&#039;t arguing The Truth, as best you know it?

I suspect the former is probably unusual for you (you seem to have a decent head on your shoulders for making valid points and  conclusions), but the latter is common these days, with the Left finding &lt;b&gt;Truthiness&lt;/b&gt; to be much more important -- aka, &quot;What I want to believe is True, facts be damned&quot;.

Mind you, especially with the left, I am put in mind of physicist Wolfgang Pauli&#039;s comment about a paper published by a colleague:
&lt;b&gt;&quot;This isn&#039;t right. It&#039;s not even wrong.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;
And yes, that is very much a valid statement in many cases. When they assert that Police are racist because they killed George Floyd, they aren&#039;t right. They aren&#039;t even wrong. Their argument is failing because it&#039;s based on invalid assumptions, not just because the internal reasoning is wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>}}} <i>“Right” is not exactly the same thing as “truth,” of course, because “be right” can be interpreted as “win arguments” </i></p>
<p>I won&#8217;t say people don&#8217;t misinterpret the term &#8220;be right&#8221; this way, but it&#8217;s an invalid lefty kind of &#8220;be right&#8221;, not a valid one.</p>
<p>To be Right, you <b>must</b> express the Truth. You can be right and still lose an argument, both by failing to make your case well, or by having the other person lack the intellectual honesty to ack your valid points.</p>
<p>The term &#8220;Right&#8221; in this context, is synonymous with &#8220;Correct&#8221;. How can you be &#8220;correct&#8221; if you aren&#8217;t arguing The Truth, as best you know it?</p>
<p>I suspect the former is probably unusual for you (you seem to have a decent head on your shoulders for making valid points and  conclusions), but the latter is common these days, with the Left finding <b>Truthiness</b> to be much more important &#8212; aka, &#8220;What I want to believe is True, facts be damned&#8221;.</p>
<p>Mind you, especially with the left, I am put in mind of physicist Wolfgang Pauli&#8217;s comment about a paper published by a colleague:<br />
<b>&#8220;This isn&#8217;t right. It&#8217;s not even wrong.&#8221;</b><br />
And yes, that is very much a valid statement in many cases. When they assert that Police are racist because they killed George Floyd, they aren&#8217;t right. They aren&#8217;t even wrong. Their argument is failing because it&#8217;s based on invalid assumptions, not just because the internal reasoning is wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518139</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2020 23:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518139</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[huxley, that&#039;s illuminating. I was reminded of the old saying that &quot;you can&#039;t eat democracy,&quot; which probably also plays into the modern conception somewhere.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huxley, that&#8217;s illuminating. I was reminded of the old saying that &#8220;you can&#8217;t eat democracy,&#8221; which probably also plays into the modern conception somewhere.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518135</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2020 21:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518135</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I think Paul in Boston’s note that Dems rarely talk about liberty is apropos. Maybe they’ve confused liberty with ‘rights’. Everybody pretty much talks about rights, but what, in comparison with those, is liberty?&lt;/i&gt;

Philip Sells: I see this discussion going back (at least) to FDR&#039;s &quot;Second Bill of Rights&quot; (1944) in which he declared the &quot;Bill of Rights&quot; to be a catalog of &quot;political rights&quot; (we might call these liberty), which he argued had &quot;proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness&quot;. (Shades of &quot;equity.&quot;) To that end he recommended a &quot;Second Bill of Rights,&quot; such as rights to employment, housing, medical care, social security and education.

One way I understand Democrats is that their programs since have been to proceed as though Roosevelt&#039;s &quot;Second Bill of Rights&quot; was already in the Constitution because it should be. Hence, the legal decisions of judges who support the Democrats&#039; agenda.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think Paul in Boston’s note that Dems rarely talk about liberty is apropos. Maybe they’ve confused liberty with ‘rights’. Everybody pretty much talks about rights, but what, in comparison with those, is liberty?</i></p>
<p>Philip Sells: I see this discussion going back (at least) to FDR&#8217;s &#8220;Second Bill of Rights&#8221; (1944) in which he declared the &#8220;Bill of Rights&#8221; to be a catalog of &#8220;political rights&#8221; (we might call these liberty), which he argued had &#8220;proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness&#8221;. (Shades of &#8220;equity.&#8221;) To that end he recommended a &#8220;Second Bill of Rights,&#8221; such as rights to employment, housing, medical care, social security and education.</p>
<p>One way I understand Democrats is that their programs since have been to proceed as though Roosevelt&#8217;s &#8220;Second Bill of Rights&#8221; was already in the Constitution because it should be. Hence, the legal decisions of judges who support the Democrats&#8217; agenda.</p>
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		By: JimNorCal		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518124</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JimNorCal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2020 19:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518124</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Food for thought.
I did a cursory check and didn&#039;t see this link posted on other threads so far.
https://reason.com/2020/10/02/the-conservative-trans-woman-who-went-undercover-with-antifa-in-portland/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Food for thought.<br />
I did a cursory check and didn&#8217;t see this link posted on other threads so far.<br />
<a href="https://reason.com/2020/10/02/the-conservative-trans-woman-who-went-undercover-with-antifa-in-portland/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://reason.com/2020/10/02/the-conservative-trans-woman-who-went-undercover-with-antifa-in-portland/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Cicero		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/10/03/caring-about-truth-caring-about-liberty/#comment-2518118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cicero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2020 18:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=100409#comment-2518118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Philip:
As our Founders recognized, rights are part of Natural Law, They are not man-given but God-given. As such they are immutable by man and by government.

For many, perhaps most Americans today, liberty means license to do as you wish, the natural result of the emphasis on individuality. Even as we struggle in a political and legal environment that more and more resembles the USSR.

I see literal commitments to LBGT+...with the ending letters unmentioned because I cannot recall them. But it is a string! Gender self-selection is now a fluid and an official &quot;right&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip:<br />
As our Founders recognized, rights are part of Natural Law, They are not man-given but God-given. As such they are immutable by man and by government.</p>
<p>For many, perhaps most Americans today, liberty means license to do as you wish, the natural result of the emphasis on individuality. Even as we struggle in a political and legal environment that more and more resembles the USSR.</p>
<p>I see literal commitments to LBGT+&#8230;with the ending letters unmentioned because I cannot recall them. But it is a string! Gender self-selection is now a fluid and an official &#8220;right&#8221;.</p>
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