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	Comments on: The Republican Party reinvents itself	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512843</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2020 04:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512843</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[R2L, I agree that the real tangible evidence for it is still thin, as far as fiscal discipline goes. In fact, I think the GOP even now is still not really on board with the idea. What I meant to indicate is my hopeful feeling that indirectly, by dint of Trump&#039;s apparent focus on mid-America and by extension (again, one hopes) mid-American values such as fiscal discipline, and showing the rest of what remains of the GOP that we are at a point at which this focus can bear fruits of some electoral success, Trump can maybe perhaps drag the GOP kicking and screaming into this new (or new-old?) mindset, and then we might stand a chance. It&#039;s in the spirit of Friedman&#039;s statement about the way to get politics to work is not to elect the right people, but rather to convince the wrong people to do the right thing.

I would be more convinced of this if I thought Trump himself really took fiscal discipline seriously; I&#039;m not really sure that he does. But on the other hand, at least we can say that he has a tangible first-hand knowledge of what concepts like insolvency, budgets, payroll really mean. To the average Congressdweeb, who seems firmly convinced that 2 + 2 really can equal 7 if you just shout loudly enough, those must be such light and airy notions. But even that little bit of sense of reality that Trump must have is better than the pure fantasy that we get from most of those creatures.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R2L, I agree that the real tangible evidence for it is still thin, as far as fiscal discipline goes. In fact, I think the GOP even now is still not really on board with the idea. What I meant to indicate is my hopeful feeling that indirectly, by dint of Trump&#8217;s apparent focus on mid-America and by extension (again, one hopes) mid-American values such as fiscal discipline, and showing the rest of what remains of the GOP that we are at a point at which this focus can bear fruits of some electoral success, Trump can maybe perhaps drag the GOP kicking and screaming into this new (or new-old?) mindset, and then we might stand a chance. It&#8217;s in the spirit of Friedman&#8217;s statement about the way to get politics to work is not to elect the right people, but rather to convince the wrong people to do the right thing.</p>
<p>I would be more convinced of this if I thought Trump himself really took fiscal discipline seriously; I&#8217;m not really sure that he does. But on the other hand, at least we can say that he has a tangible first-hand knowledge of what concepts like insolvency, budgets, payroll really mean. To the average Congressdweeb, who seems firmly convinced that 2 + 2 really can equal 7 if you just shout loudly enough, those must be such light and airy notions. But even that little bit of sense of reality that Trump must have is better than the pure fantasy that we get from most of those creatures.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cicero		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512761</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cicero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 19:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512761</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[G.B.-
Surely you jest with your UN inviolability! I do not hold the UN in any regard whatsoever.It is a den of non-democracies, a den of tyrants and thieves.

As to conquest of one nation by another, does that extend to overthrow of one government and installation of another, more favorable one? Or restitution of the latter? If so, see Iraq, Afghanistan, Crimea, Grenada! Even Syria! We&#039;re not just talking of seizing and holding dirt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G.B.-<br />
Surely you jest with your UN inviolability! I do not hold the UN in any regard whatsoever.It is a den of non-democracies, a den of tyrants and thieves.</p>
<p>As to conquest of one nation by another, does that extend to overthrow of one government and installation of another, more favorable one? Or restitution of the latter? If so, see Iraq, Afghanistan, Crimea, Grenada! Even Syria! We&#8217;re not just talking of seizing and holding dirt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Britain		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512757</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Britain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 18:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512757</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cicero,

&lt;i&gt;&quot;So we rescued Kuwait for the Kuwaitis and for the EU, which needed their oil?&quot;&lt;/i&gt; 

Not at all. We rescued Kuwait to demonstrate our support for geopolitical stability. Conquest of one nation of another is no longer considered legitimate. Even the U.N. declares that to be an inviolable principle.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cicero,</p>
<p><i>&#8220;So we rescued Kuwait for the Kuwaitis and for the EU, which needed their oil?&#8221;</i> </p>
<p>Not at all. We rescued Kuwait to demonstrate our support for geopolitical stability. Conquest of one nation of another is no longer considered legitimate. Even the U.N. declares that to be an inviolable principle.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cicero		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512746</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cicero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512746</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[G.B.:
So we rescued Kuwait for the Kuwaitis and for the  EU, which needed their oil?
This predated fracking and our current oil independence, and I do not recall what % we imported at the time.
But, and a big but, GHW had made his fortune in the oil patch, and I wonder how his oilfield connections played into his decision to rescue Kuwait. Recall Tillerson, Exxon CEO who became SOS for Trump rather briefly and who was totally used to dealing with all manner of foreign dictators in oil deals.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G.B.:<br />
So we rescued Kuwait for the Kuwaitis and for the  EU, which needed their oil?<br />
This predated fracking and our current oil independence, and I do not recall what % we imported at the time.<br />
But, and a big but, GHW had made his fortune in the oil patch, and I wonder how his oilfield connections played into his decision to rescue Kuwait. Recall Tillerson, Exxon CEO who became SOS for Trump rather briefly and who was totally used to dealing with all manner of foreign dictators in oil deals.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oldflyer		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512745</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oldflyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512745</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cicero, you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is misbegotten.

You cite examples of weaknesses taken completely out of context.

None of those men were &quot;weak&quot; just because you do not agree with decisions that they made.  In the case of the two Bushes, I will never buy an argument that  they did not do what they thought was best for the country at the time the decisions were made.  Never!

As for McCain, there was much about him that I thought inexplicable, and characteristics that I did not care for.  But, weakness was not one of his failings.  Do not insult his memory with that label.  As a Vietnam era Naval Aviator  myself, I have tried to project how I would have behaved under the conditions that McCain and the others endured.  I cannot.  Nor can anyone else.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cicero, you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is misbegotten.</p>
<p>You cite examples of weaknesses taken completely out of context.</p>
<p>None of those men were &#8220;weak&#8221; just because you do not agree with decisions that they made.  In the case of the two Bushes, I will never buy an argument that  they did not do what they thought was best for the country at the time the decisions were made.  Never!</p>
<p>As for McCain, there was much about him that I thought inexplicable, and characteristics that I did not care for.  But, weakness was not one of his failings.  Do not insult his memory with that label.  As a Vietnam era Naval Aviator  myself, I have tried to project how I would have behaved under the conditions that McCain and the others endured.  I cannot.  Nor can anyone else.</p>
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		<title>
		By: R2L		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512742</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R2L]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512742</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Philip Sells on August 29, 2020 at 6:25 am said:  &quot;I like to think that the GOP is ... 
 being redefined away from just the same broken record of tax cuts and big business.&quot;
Given our current federal debt and entitlement position, I now cringe every time I hear the words &quot;tax cut&quot; when there is not even a hint of a whisper of a vague notion that there should be some associated spending cuts to go with it.  I need to see more and stronger evidence that the GOP is really reorienting itself before I join your optimism. 

I am not sure if we should welcome it or fear it, but eventually &quot;Stein&#039;s Law will intervene; ... if something cannot go on forever it will stop.&quot; 

Not all conservatives will agree, but I believe that if the Republicans were to gain the House, Senate, and Presidency, then the GOP should push for a Convention of the States, while our stars are ascending, to resurrect the Constitution we were meant to have.  Some risks with this, yes, but also probably our best opportunity (short of CW 2) to more fully shackle the progressives/ Leftists and their concept of a &quot;living Constitution&quot;, hopefully thereby regaining/ retaining liberty for our posterity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip Sells on August 29, 2020 at 6:25 am said:  &#8220;I like to think that the GOP is &#8230;<br />
 being redefined away from just the same broken record of tax cuts and big business.&#8221;<br />
Given our current federal debt and entitlement position, I now cringe every time I hear the words &#8220;tax cut&#8221; when there is not even a hint of a whisper of a vague notion that there should be some associated spending cuts to go with it.  I need to see more and stronger evidence that the GOP is really reorienting itself before I join your optimism. </p>
<p>I am not sure if we should welcome it or fear it, but eventually &#8220;Stein&#8217;s Law will intervene; &#8230; if something cannot go on forever it will stop.&#8221; </p>
<p>Not all conservatives will agree, but I believe that if the Republicans were to gain the House, Senate, and Presidency, then the GOP should push for a Convention of the States, while our stars are ascending, to resurrect the Constitution we were meant to have.  Some risks with this, yes, but also probably our best opportunity (short of CW 2) to more fully shackle the progressives/ Leftists and their concept of a &#8220;living Constitution&#8221;, hopefully thereby regaining/ retaining liberty for our posterity.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Britain		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512741</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Britain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512741</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Philip Sells,

Caca happens. Once again I prove that I&#039;m only human ;-)

Cicero,

I did indeed say that, which in no way is trying to have it both ways. There was reasonable suspicion that if successful with Kuwait, Saddam would at some future point look to Saudi Arabia next. There was also reasonable certainty that the Saudi&#039;s were extremely reluctant to allow a strong US military presence on S.A. soil. 

Bush Sr. concluded that the only way to reassure the Saudi&#039;s and get permission to use their bases was to impress upon the Saudis that America did not have territorial designs and that all we wished was to protect national borders from invasion. That pushing Saddam out of Kuwait and degrading his military capabilities enough that he couldn&#039;t repeat his aggression was all that we desired. That was a position that the Saudis could get on board with...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip Sells,</p>
<p>Caca happens. Once again I prove that I&#8217;m only human 😉</p>
<p>Cicero,</p>
<p>I did indeed say that, which in no way is trying to have it both ways. There was reasonable suspicion that if successful with Kuwait, Saddam would at some future point look to Saudi Arabia next. There was also reasonable certainty that the Saudi&#8217;s were extremely reluctant to allow a strong US military presence on S.A. soil. </p>
<p>Bush Sr. concluded that the only way to reassure the Saudi&#8217;s and get permission to use their bases was to impress upon the Saudis that America did not have territorial designs and that all we wished was to protect national borders from invasion. That pushing Saddam out of Kuwait and degrading his military capabilities enough that he couldn&#8217;t repeat his aggression was all that we desired. That was a position that the Saudis could get on board with&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: R2L		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512740</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R2L]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512740</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Geofrey Britain on August 29, 2020 at 2:25 am said: &quot;... removing Saddam would have ... definitely removed the Iraq’s Baathist bulwark against Iranian ambitions.&quot; 
 I recall from that time period a report that Bush 41 mentioned he understood the very long standing Sunni-Shiite rivalry and that was (part of?) why he did not do more. But it was never clear if he ever gave Bush 43 the benefit of his knowledge, trying to keep a hands off position relative to his son&#039;s presidency.
The post 911 &quot;Religion of Peace&quot; posture was a real misstep, or a purposeful deception to avoid some other geopolitical pain.

&quot;Other than the fanatical [Wahhabists], what other ‘assets’ were available to fill the power vacuum that a revolt against the Saudi rulers would have brought?&quot;
I agree, but have sometimes entertained the fantasy that the US et al. might set up the Hashemite regime in Jordan as rulers of SA.  I believe they lost out in some past conflict and thus would probably be happy to recover their previous ruling position.  But, again = pure fantasy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geofrey Britain on August 29, 2020 at 2:25 am said: &#8220;&#8230; removing Saddam would have &#8230; definitely removed the Iraq’s Baathist bulwark against Iranian ambitions.&#8221;<br />
 I recall from that time period a report that Bush 41 mentioned he understood the very long standing Sunni-Shiite rivalry and that was (part of?) why he did not do more. But it was never clear if he ever gave Bush 43 the benefit of his knowledge, trying to keep a hands off position relative to his son&#8217;s presidency.<br />
The post 911 &#8220;Religion of Peace&#8221; posture was a real misstep, or a purposeful deception to avoid some other geopolitical pain.</p>
<p>&#8220;Other than the fanatical [Wahhabists], what other ‘assets’ were available to fill the power vacuum that a revolt against the Saudi rulers would have brought?&#8221;<br />
I agree, but have sometimes entertained the fantasy that the US et al. might set up the Hashemite regime in Jordan as rulers of SA.  I believe they lost out in some past conflict and thus would probably be happy to recover their previous ruling position.  But, again = pure fantasy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cicero		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512739</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cicero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512739</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Geoffrey:
You cannot have it both ways when you counter my comments on GHW fighting Saddam.
After all, you did write &quot;which was vital to keeping Saddam out of Saudi Arabia, a commonly viewed strategic ambition of Saddam&quot;, did you not?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoffrey:<br />
You cannot have it both ways when you counter my comments on GHW fighting Saddam.<br />
After all, you did write &#8220;which was vital to keeping Saddam out of Saudi Arabia, a commonly viewed strategic ambition of Saddam&#8221;, did you not?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/28/the-republican-party-reinvents-itself/#comment-2512723</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2020 10:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99345#comment-2512723</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like to think that the GOP is, in all of this, to some meaningful degree being redefined away from just the same broken record of tax cuts and big business. It seems to me that part of the motivation for the selection of so many Midwestern speakers at the convention was to start to indicate a bit of a reorientation - by compulsion, to some extent - back toward Middle America. I say &#039;by compulsion&#039; because I get the feeling that the GOP elite still clings somewhat to the coastal way of looking at life and Trump (even though he&#039;s a NY-er) is trying in some way to prod the party the other way. This is part of why I like your post title.

Of course, there is also the fairly obvious play for the sentiments of Minnesotans as a factor.

Geoffrey, what happened that you lost a consonant?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like to think that the GOP is, in all of this, to some meaningful degree being redefined away from just the same broken record of tax cuts and big business. It seems to me that part of the motivation for the selection of so many Midwestern speakers at the convention was to start to indicate a bit of a reorientation &#8211; by compulsion, to some extent &#8211; back toward Middle America. I say &#8216;by compulsion&#8217; because I get the feeling that the GOP elite still clings somewhat to the coastal way of looking at life and Trump (even though he&#8217;s a NY-er) is trying in some way to prod the party the other way. This is part of why I like your post title.</p>
<p>Of course, there is also the fairly obvious play for the sentiments of Minnesotans as a factor.</p>
<p>Geoffrey, what happened that you lost a consonant?</p>
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