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	Comments on: Who is rioting in Kenosha, Wisconsin?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2020 01:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DNW,

I&#039;m thinking of how David referred to his enemies in the Psalms. There are different categories therein, I guess one could say. One interesting point is that it&#039;s infrequent for him to threaten these enemies with death by his own hand. More often, he puts his trust in the Lord instead to be delivered from them and/or to exact the vengeance. I haven&#039;t done a comprehensive breakdown of all instances, but this is my impression.

(We use the Septuagint text in the Orthodox Church, btw. The translation from Holy Transfiguration in the Boston area has proven itself as an English-language standard, so I&#039;ll use that - it&#039;s also my personal favorite so far.)

Here are a couple of examples:
Ps VI - &quot;Let all mine enemies be greatly put to shame and be troubled, let them be turned back, and speedily be greatly put to shame.&quot;
XXXVI - &quot;Let their sword enter into their own hearts and let their bows be broken.&quot; (which, btw, is one of the many examples of the most common prayer being that his enemies should fall victim to &lt;i&gt;their own&lt;/i&gt; devices, not so much that they should be beaten down by someone else&#039;s superiority - this is so that the enemies can&#039;t blame anyone else for what happens to them, I think)

In some cases, he is more definitely speaking of spiritual enemies, not necessarily physical ones merely, meaning the demons especially.

Well, as I said, it&#039;s a long list and I don&#039;t have time right now to go through the entire text, though it would be a worthwhile project. It would take me a few days, I imagine.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DNW,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking of how David referred to his enemies in the Psalms. There are different categories therein, I guess one could say. One interesting point is that it&#8217;s infrequent for him to threaten these enemies with death by his own hand. More often, he puts his trust in the Lord instead to be delivered from them and/or to exact the vengeance. I haven&#8217;t done a comprehensive breakdown of all instances, but this is my impression.</p>
<p>(We use the Septuagint text in the Orthodox Church, btw. The translation from Holy Transfiguration in the Boston area has proven itself as an English-language standard, so I&#8217;ll use that &#8211; it&#8217;s also my personal favorite so far.)</p>
<p>Here are a couple of examples:<br />
Ps VI &#8211; &#8220;Let all mine enemies be greatly put to shame and be troubled, let them be turned back, and speedily be greatly put to shame.&#8221;<br />
XXXVI &#8211; &#8220;Let their sword enter into their own hearts and let their bows be broken.&#8221; (which, btw, is one of the many examples of the most common prayer being that his enemies should fall victim to <i>their own</i> devices, not so much that they should be beaten down by someone else&#8217;s superiority &#8211; this is so that the enemies can&#8217;t blame anyone else for what happens to them, I think)</p>
<p>In some cases, he is more definitely speaking of spiritual enemies, not necessarily physical ones merely, meaning the demons especially.</p>
<p>Well, as I said, it&#8217;s a long list and I don&#8217;t have time right now to go through the entire text, though it would be a worthwhile project. It would take me a few days, I imagine.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DNW		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512364</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DNW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 22:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512364</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot; I also said I don’t compare human actions to animals. Humans are humans, and they have plenty of evil in them without invoking animals.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, good. That is a nice stance to take, and admirably idealistic. Truly.

But, again: is the candle worth the game?: Specifically, this impossible, and lately unrewarding project played out so laboriously, and so hopelessly, with such uncongenial, antagonistic, and morally vicious &quot;fellow&quot; players who never relent, never back off, and are never satisfied??

1. Man is an animal: 2. a rational animal being the specific difference; and 3. with the capacity for right reason being the attribute that entitles examples of the kind to moral/peer respect and possibly even intra-specific consideration. The rest is just emotionalism masquerading as &quot;morals&quot; ... or morally content-less taxonomy.

Without the second, the first affiliation is morally meaningless, and the imperatives concerning the last,  are contingent upon its actual presence as an active faculty.

Now, of course, some persons may have a religious view they wish to advance - something about all men being &quot;made in the image and likeness ...&quot; regardless of their manifest depravity or animality; or, maybe about their having immortal souls which have an eternal fate or some such characteristic commanding our consideration and respect. 

And those views are, in my opinion, worth a hearing. If, that is, the one advancing them is clear and forthright about his premisses and what he views as the logical and moral entailments.

But most modern people people who go on about respect for &quot;hoomanity&quot; per se, are either incapable of doing such, or, they do not wish to embarrass themselves by &quot;appealing to superstition&quot;: when they have in fact nothing to offer as an alternative but an empty and laughable utilitarianism to replace it. &quot;If we want to save X we gotta do Y&quot;.  But what if we don&#039;t gotta save X? LOL

(That sagging faced piece of work Rorty was at least honest enough, or vainglorious enough, to admit as much.)

Now, when unlike a couple years ago when we first had this discussion, we see men actually dying in the streets in gun battles, and hooting as they enjoy the orgy of violence - which imparts a sense of meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives - and we see their alt sex harpy allies on the sidelines screeching out their bloodlust too, well, then, utilitarian cant about preserving society, or most especially the society which the hopeful find congenial or familiar, seems, sadly, risible.

Not that gratuitous insults are ever an admirable thing, or that we should ever call anyone a chimp except to their face and under such circumstances when one is willing to play that very hard and unpleasant hand out to the end, of course. I would prefer not to do it, but I admit that preference is emotional and not one I could convince a modern man as being wrong.

Imagine for instance that you are standing over that dying Antifa dude as he&#039;s lying there in what might very well be a puddle of his own piss (as anti-freeze), and he looks up at you moments before he winks out forever and you take the occasion to tell him his death now, as well as his life prior to it, is the meaningless, self-induced result, of him acting like a chimp rather than a man.

Now, to send him off to an eternity in Hell like that, would not appeal to most people - including myself. But for, say, a good, solid, convinced atheist and nominalist, who did not happen to be a leftist, I doubt many of us could assemble a convincing argument persuading him he was wrong to do so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8221; I also said I don’t compare human actions to animals. Humans are humans, and they have plenty of evil in them without invoking animals.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, good. That is a nice stance to take, and admirably idealistic. Truly.</p>
<p>But, again: is the candle worth the game?: Specifically, this impossible, and lately unrewarding project played out so laboriously, and so hopelessly, with such uncongenial, antagonistic, and morally vicious &#8220;fellow&#8221; players who never relent, never back off, and are never satisfied??</p>
<p>1. Man is an animal: 2. a rational animal being the specific difference; and 3. with the capacity for right reason being the attribute that entitles examples of the kind to moral/peer respect and possibly even intra-specific consideration. The rest is just emotionalism masquerading as &#8220;morals&#8221; &#8230; or morally content-less taxonomy.</p>
<p>Without the second, the first affiliation is morally meaningless, and the imperatives concerning the last,  are contingent upon its actual presence as an active faculty.</p>
<p>Now, of course, some persons may have a religious view they wish to advance &#8211; something about all men being &#8220;made in the image and likeness &#8230;&#8221; regardless of their manifest depravity or animality; or, maybe about their having immortal souls which have an eternal fate or some such characteristic commanding our consideration and respect. </p>
<p>And those views are, in my opinion, worth a hearing. If, that is, the one advancing them is clear and forthright about his premisses and what he views as the logical and moral entailments.</p>
<p>But most modern people people who go on about respect for &#8220;hoomanity&#8221; per se, are either incapable of doing such, or, they do not wish to embarrass themselves by &#8220;appealing to superstition&#8221;: when they have in fact nothing to offer as an alternative but an empty and laughable utilitarianism to replace it. &#8220;If we want to save X we gotta do Y&#8221;.  But what if we don&#8217;t gotta save X? LOL</p>
<p>(That sagging faced piece of work Rorty was at least honest enough, or vainglorious enough, to admit as much.)</p>
<p>Now, when unlike a couple years ago when we first had this discussion, we see men actually dying in the streets in gun battles, and hooting as they enjoy the orgy of violence &#8211; which imparts a sense of meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives &#8211; and we see their alt sex harpy allies on the sidelines screeching out their bloodlust too, well, then, utilitarian cant about preserving society, or most especially the society which the hopeful find congenial or familiar, seems, sadly, risible.</p>
<p>Not that gratuitous insults are ever an admirable thing, or that we should ever call anyone a chimp except to their face and under such circumstances when one is willing to play that very hard and unpleasant hand out to the end, of course. I would prefer not to do it, but I admit that preference is emotional and not one I could convince a modern man as being wrong.</p>
<p>Imagine for instance that you are standing over that dying Antifa dude as he&#8217;s lying there in what might very well be a puddle of his own piss (as anti-freeze), and he looks up at you moments before he winks out forever and you take the occasion to tell him his death now, as well as his life prior to it, is the meaningless, self-induced result, of him acting like a chimp rather than a man.</p>
<p>Now, to send him off to an eternity in Hell like that, would not appeal to most people &#8211; including myself. But for, say, a good, solid, convinced atheist and nominalist, who did not happen to be a leftist, I doubt many of us could assemble a convincing argument persuading him he was wrong to do so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512358</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 21:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512358</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Who would have thought Kenosha WI might become the 21st century Ft Sumter?&quot; - physicsguy

It hasn&#039;t, yet.
The thing about Ft Sumter IIRC is that it was known to be a possible flash-point in the secession controversy, and so the actual event precipitated the expected consequences.
Kenosha, in and of itself, has no such predicted significance, but is kind of a random, could-have-happened-anywhere, location.

It &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; become a tipping point into civil war, but it doesn&#039;t &lt;em&gt;have to&lt;/em&gt; - and Ft Sumter did.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Who would have thought Kenosha WI might become the 21st century Ft Sumter?&#8221; &#8211; physicsguy</p>
<p>It hasn&#8217;t, yet.<br />
The thing about Ft Sumter IIRC is that it was known to be a possible flash-point in the secession controversy, and so the actual event precipitated the expected consequences.<br />
Kenosha, in and of itself, has no such predicted significance, but is kind of a random, could-have-happened-anywhere, location.</p>
<p>It <em>could</em> become a tipping point into civil war, but it doesn&#8217;t <em>have to</em> &#8211; and Ft Sumter did.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512353</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 21:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512353</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mac on August 26, 2020 at 10:11 am links to Rod Dreher&#039;s long essay (repeated here). It is long because it covers a lot of very important territory, with the discussion on Baylor only as a kind of jumping-off point to discuss the entirety of why wokeness is a soft totalitarianism in practice (and a hard totalitarianism in theory). &quot;Live Not by Lies&quot; is the title of his newest book, which he quotes often.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/baylor-why-wokeness-is-a-big-deal-live-not-by-lies/

I quibble with only one part of his essay, which attributes the wokeyness of the flagship Southern Baptist University to &quot;the Baylor football sexual assault scandal, which ran from 2011 to 2016.&quot; 
That inflection point surprised me, because he has a long relationship with Baylor people and ought to know that the slide down the slippery slope began years before that.  In fact the scandal is the result of the slide, not the genesis of it.

My mother followed the insider-news of her beloved Southern Baptists for most of her life, and used to send me newspaper clippings (!!) detailing what the Board and administration were doing to water down the Christian principles and conservative policies of the college.
It came to the point where bedrock Baptists began to question the college&#039;s commitment not just to Baptist doctrine but also to basic Christian theology.
Some churches - which all operate independently -  also moved to disassociate and defund. 
I lost track of the situation when she passed away in 2010, and am rather glad she didn&#039;t live to hear about the scandal.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mac on August 26, 2020 at 10:11 am links to Rod Dreher&#8217;s long essay (repeated here). It is long because it covers a lot of very important territory, with the discussion on Baylor only as a kind of jumping-off point to discuss the entirety of why wokeness is a soft totalitarianism in practice (and a hard totalitarianism in theory). &#8220;Live Not by Lies&#8221; is the title of his newest book, which he quotes often.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/baylor-why-wokeness-is-a-big-deal-live-not-by-lies/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/baylor-why-wokeness-is-a-big-deal-live-not-by-lies/</a></p>
<p>I quibble with only one part of his essay, which attributes the wokeyness of the flagship Southern Baptist University to &#8220;the Baylor football sexual assault scandal, which ran from 2011 to 2016.&#8221;<br />
That inflection point surprised me, because he has a long relationship with Baylor people and ought to know that the slide down the slippery slope began years before that.  In fact the scandal is the result of the slide, not the genesis of it.</p>
<p>My mother followed the insider-news of her beloved Southern Baptists for most of her life, and used to send me newspaper clippings (!!) detailing what the Board and administration were doing to water down the Christian principles and conservative policies of the college.<br />
It came to the point where bedrock Baptists began to question the college&#8217;s commitment not just to Baptist doctrine but also to basic Christian theology.<br />
Some churches &#8211; which all operate independently &#8211;  also moved to disassociate and defund.<br />
I lost track of the situation when she passed away in 2010, and am rather glad she didn&#8217;t live to hear about the scandal.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512345</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512345</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;People letting themselves be intimidated by a bunch of 20 something thugs.&quot; - physicsguy

What we don&#039;t know is how many raised their fists because they actually agreed with the solidarity-unity agenda.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;People letting themselves be intimidated by a bunch of 20 something thugs.&#8221; &#8211; physicsguy</p>
<p>What we don&#8217;t know is how many raised their fists because they actually agreed with the solidarity-unity agenda.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512341</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512341</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Vanderleun:

Yes, I discussed that already in my addendum to my new post.  Take a look and you&#039;ll see.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vanderleun:</p>
<p>Yes, I discussed that already in my addendum to my new post.  Take a look and you&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gerard vanderleun		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512340</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerard vanderleun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512340</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you mean the shooting at the gas station there&#039;s also a video of the shooter first being pursued and attacked with a molotov cocktail.

In both cases, the shooter is the same.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you mean the shooting at the gas station there&#8217;s also a video of the shooter first being pursued and attacked with a molotov cocktail.</p>
<p>In both cases, the shooter is the same.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512333</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512333</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gerard Vanderleun:

See my most recent post on the matter.

I believe it&#039;s the first shooting that will be the bigger issue.  You are talking about the second.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerard Vanderleun:</p>
<p>See my most recent post on the matter.</p>
<p>I believe it&#8217;s the first shooting that will be the bigger issue.  You are talking about the second.</p>
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		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512332</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512332</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cicero:

 As you no doubt know - or perhaps you don&#039;t - according to evolution, humans did not descend from chimps or any ape today.  Humans and today&#039;s apes had a common ape ancestor; &lt;a href=&quot;https://humanorigins.si.edu/education/frequently-asked-questions&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;see this&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Humans and monkeys are both primates. But humans are not descended from monkeys or any other primate living today. We do share a common ape ancestor with chimpanzees. It lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. But humans and chimpanzees evolved differently from that same ancestor. All apes and monkeys share a more distant relative, which lived about 25 million years ago.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

All of which is of course irrelevant to whether humans should be compared to apes - or whether it is racist to do so. I wrote that the comparison has a racist history and tradition, which it does (something you also probably know).  I also said I don&#039;t compare human actions to animals.  Humans are humans, and they have plenty of evil in them without invoking animals.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cicero:</p>
<p> As you no doubt know &#8211; or perhaps you don&#8217;t &#8211; according to evolution, humans did not descend from chimps or any ape today.  Humans and today&#8217;s apes had a common ape ancestor; <a href="https://humanorigins.si.edu/education/frequently-asked-questions" rel="nofollow ugc">see this</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Humans and monkeys are both primates. But humans are not descended from monkeys or any other primate living today. We do share a common ape ancestor with chimpanzees. It lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. But humans and chimpanzees evolved differently from that same ancestor. All apes and monkeys share a more distant relative, which lived about 25 million years ago.</p></blockquote>
<p>All of which is of course irrelevant to whether humans should be compared to apes &#8211; or whether it is racist to do so. I wrote that the comparison has a racist history and tradition, which it does (something you also probably know).  I also said I don&#8217;t compare human actions to animals.  Humans are humans, and they have plenty of evil in them without invoking animals.</p>
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		By: Gerard vanderleun		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2020/08/25/who-is-rioting-in-kenosha-wisconsin/#comment-2512324</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerard vanderleun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2020 19:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=99206#comment-2512324</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s the complete video and it pretty clear that he&#039;s well within the self-defense defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRa3h7RHHvg

Benshapiro has cited the law that applies. I&#039;ll try to dig it up.

It&#039;s not what you can charge. It&#039;s what you can prove. And as we have seen of late the cops arrested in the George Floyd death will pretty much be found not guilty.

Here&#039;s the law clips from Ben Shapiro:

https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1298654245588279296]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the complete video and it pretty clear that he&#8217;s well within the self-defense defense.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRa3h7RHHvg" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRa3h7RHHvg</a></p>
<p>Benshapiro has cited the law that applies. I&#8217;ll try to dig it up.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not what you can charge. It&#8217;s what you can prove. And as we have seen of late the cops arrested in the George Floyd death will pretty much be found not guilty.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the law clips from Ben Shapiro:</p>
<p><a href="https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1298654245588279296" rel="nofollow ugc">https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1298654245588279296</a></p>
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