He says the jury’s still out, but that clinical practice, rather than clinical trials, should always be the final arbiter. He has a point, but it also sounds to me as if he’s drifting dangerously close to a simple argument from authority — his own.

Of course, I still hope that the treatment works. If I ever have the misfortune to develop sepsis, then I’d want my doctor to give it a shot. But, for the time being, I have the luxury of reading clinical trials from the comfort of home. So far, I’m unconvinced.

Link to article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7156299/

Marik’s conclusion:
“Shortly, the results of multi-center RCTs will be available[23-25]. Many will consider these trials to be the definitive evidence on which to judge the benefit of HAT Rx and to make a jury decision. However, while RCT’s are considered the gold standard, it is important to realize that most RCT’s do not replicate real world experience; mainly, due to the numerous exclusion criteria, enormous patient heterogeneity, non-standardized co-interventions and delays in instituting therapy. In the end, the thoughtful juror (clinician) must weigh the totality of the evidence before rendering a verdict.”

Marik critiqued one study (I don’t think it was the one you cited, Cornflour) for not following his protocol in terms of timing, which he says is all-important. If it’s not begun almost immediately, the damage is done and it will not help, he says. The study you cite, Cornflour (I read the abstract for it) just says that the ARDS and sepsis was present in the patients studied for “less than 24 hours.” That’s not even remotely close to the much narrower window of time Marik says is necessary for it to work.

Neo’s response to your comment rang a bell, so I looked back at her post on Marik’s vitamin C protocol for sepsis.

I added a comment to Neo’s earlier post from about two years ago. Included in my comment was a list of clinical trials undertaken to test Marik’s hypothesis. I didn’t check them all, but the second clinical trial has been completed, and a paper describing the results has been published.

Unfortunately, the conclusion isn’t encouraging:

“In this preliminary study of patients with sepsis and ARDS, a 96-hour infusion of vitamin C compared with placebo did not significantly improve organ dysfunction scores or alter markers of inflammation and vascular injury. Further research is needed to evaluate the potential role of vitamin C for other outcomes in sepsis and ARDS.”

Here’s a full citation for the paper:

Effect of Vitamin C Infusion on Organ Failure and Biomarkers of Inflammation and Vascular Injury in Patients With Sepsis and Severe Acute Respiratory Failure: The CITRIS-ALI Randomized Clinical Trial.
Fowler AA 3rd, Truwit JD, Hite RD, Morris PE, DeWilde C, Priday A, Fisher B, Thacker LR 2nd, Natarajan R, Brophy DF, Sculthorpe R, Nanchal R, Syed A, Sturgill J, Martin GS, Sevransky J, Kashiouris M, Hamman S, Egan KF, Hastings A, Spencer W, Tench S, Mehkri O, Bindas J, Duggal A, Graf J, Zellner S, Yanny L, McPolin C, Hollrith T, Kramer D, Ojielo C, Damm T, Cassity E, Wieliczko A, Halquist M.
JAMA. 2019 Oct 1;322(13):1261-1270. doi: 10.1001/jama.2019.11825. Erratum in: JAMA. 2020 Jan 28;323(4):379.

If you’re interested in checking out the results of other clinical trials, go to clinicaltrials.gov and search for the following trial identification numbers:

NCT03338569,NCT02106975, NCT02734147, ACTRN12617000793314,ACTRN12617001184369,ACTRN12617001392358p) and in combination with hydrocortisone and thiamine NCT03333278, NCT03335124, NCT03258684, NCT 03380507,NCT03422159, NCT03389555).

Of course, a sepsis study isn’t equivalent to a COVID-19 study, but some of the symptoms are similar, so maybe it isn’t a leap to expect that these trials could shed some light on the question of a broader efficacy for Marik’s vitamin C protocol.

I wrote a post two years ago about Marik’s vitamin C protocol, which was used for sepsis.

It is Dr Paul Marik’s vitaminC protocol.

Here is another bargain basement regimen that has become controversial. However, there are people surviving and walking out of ICUs who would normally have died. At least that’s what one ICU doc keeps telling me. He tells me with a look of absolute awe on his face which is most of the time stoic or cynical.

Remdisivir if adopted as treatment plan is going to make some folks, beginning with Gilead CEO and shareholders, it’s going to make them very, very wealthy.

Hydroxychloroquine plus zinc plus z-pack plus Dr Maria’s vitamin C protocol, will not make anybody wealthy, but the combination is doing a hell of a lot of good with virus patients. And, not just early cases. What most people aren’t talking about is that very sick, ICU patients on ventilators have increased chances of surviving with this regimen.

Has become nauseating to see the double whammy of politics and corruption make doctors have to dither around to get it right. The bargain basement treatment, despised as it may be, is saving lives. And I had thought that that was our goal. Huh?

Here is a link to Association of American Physicians and Surgeons to Gov Ducey of Arizona explaining the efficacy of HCQ, yea. The doctors asking the politician to allow them to use a drug that saves patients. Complete insanity.

https://aapsonline.org/aaps-letter-asking-gov-ducey-to-rescind-executive-order-concerning-hydroxychloroquine-in-covid-19/

First, the trial is being conducted on people who are exhibiting frank symptoms, which is to say, some (relatively small) fraction of all people currently testing positive for the infection.

Second, the “statistically insignificant” change in the death rate might be an artifact of sample size, and a change from one in eight patients receiving the placebo dying to one in twelve patients receiving the experimental treatment is an improvement of about the same magnitude (thirty percent) as the reduction in days in care.

but thanks to obama changing patent law to remove first to invent and make us first to patent, the chinese with their government money that the US doesnt do for its lone inventors, means they get to take it all..

ie. we have a lot less inventing in the US given this… if you dont have the money to patent, you might as well not create anything new… only the rich and well connected can now play the patent game..

used to be that if you came up with a great idea, you could register it and protect your right to the patent as the first… but no more… so the economic engine was deflated… not that anyone gives a crap… i know as i stopped my inventing completely.. having never had the help, resources, or such to patent or do that, the chances of any technology i have in my kit, would be nil

or to quote my sister… i have about as much chance as a paper mache dog running to hell to catch a steel cat..

by aligning us with other states… which do not invent so much
he equalized us with those states, rather than have them reach higher

so… if your an inventor..
unless your rich… give up..
your wasting all your time and life as i did
and you will end up stuck wanting to not wake up any more old with no hope
as you cant patent… so you cant secure the idea as a real thing you can sell
and cause you have no such protection, you cant present it to anyone to patent
he put patent trolls on steroids – not cured them

excuse me while i go sit and look at the futility of my life.. 🙁

Methods
The study was performed at IHU Méditerranée Infection, Marseille, France.
A cohort of 1061 COVID-19 patients, treated for at least 3 days with the HCQ-AZ combination and a follow-up of at least 9 days was investigated. Endpoints were death, worsening and viral shedding persistence. Findings From March 3rd to April 9th, 2020, 59,655 specimens from 38,617 patients were tested for
COVID-19 by PCR. Of the 3,165 positive patients placed in the care of our institute, 1061 previously unpublished patients met our inclusion criteria. Their mean age was 43.6 years old and 492 were male (46.4%). No cardiac toxicity was observed. A good clinical outcome and virological cure was obtained in 973 patients within 10 days (91.7%).
Prolonged viral carriage at completion of treatment was observed in 47 patients (4.4%) and was associated to a higher viral load at diagnosis (p < 10-2) but viral culture was negative at day 10 and all but one were PCR-cleared at day 15. A poor outcome was observed for 46 patients (4.3%); 10 were transferred to intensive care units, 5 patients died (0.47%) (74-95 years old) and 31 required 10 days of hospitalization or more.

Among this group, 25 patients are now cured and 16 are still hospitalized (98% of patients cured so far). Poor clinical outcome was significantly associated to older age (OR 1.11), initial higher severity (OR 10.05) and low hydroxychloroquine serum concentration. In addition, both poor clinical and virological outcomes were associated to the use of selective beta-blocking agents and angiotensin II receptor blockers (P 3 days of HCQ-AZ than in patients treated with other regimens both at IHU and in all Marseille public hospitals (p< 10-2).

I’m wondering the News folk who claim HQ doesn’t work will subject to suits for doctors & hospitals NOT using it, and their patients then dying. Probably not, but they should be subjected to bad PR, at least.

The econ “magic wand” has long been tax cuts plus deregulation — leading to more economic activity and especially more attempts to sell more stuff on the market. With more successes. We need deregulation for more innovation, and more innovation for better solutions.