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	Comments on: Who is more disgraced, Trump or the Democrats in the House?	</title>
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	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: sdferr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471631</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sdferr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 13:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471631</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;. . . come to such radically different conclusions.&lt;/i&gt;

You have a temporal disorder in this expression Jamie, namely, there is no &quot;come to&quot; going on, for the conclusion is where of &lt;b&gt;necessity&lt;/b&gt; the political argument has begun, not ended. 

Once the end -- the conclusion -- has been determined, a search begins for apparent &quot;facts&quot;, particles designed, selected, to make a magical syllogistic seeming progression toward the needful (already determinate) conclusion.

&quot;Make it so&quot;, said Capt. Picard. There is no search for truth going on. Nope, it&#039;s the farthest thing from that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>. . . come to such radically different conclusions.</i></p>
<p>You have a temporal disorder in this expression Jamie, namely, there is no &#8220;come to&#8221; going on, for the conclusion is where of <b>necessity</b> the political argument has begun, not ended. </p>
<p>Once the end &#8212; the conclusion &#8212; has been determined, a search begins for apparent &#8220;facts&#8221;, particles designed, selected, to make a magical syllogistic seeming progression toward the needful (already determinate) conclusion.</p>
<p>&#8220;Make it so&#8221;, said Capt. Picard. There is no search for truth going on. Nope, it&#8217;s the farthest thing from that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jamie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471630</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471630</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But WRT the confirmation bias on the Left: two things. First, it scares me a little that I am also, of course, subject to confirmation bias. Throughout this goat-rope I&#039;ve been trying to be sure to go to original sources and make up my mind about what they &lt;i&gt;actually do or say&lt;/i&gt; rather than what I&#039;d like them to do or say, but it&#039;s still disconcerting to realize that I might be misreading things too.

Second, I suppose I should accept the fact (the &lt;i&gt;prima facie&lt;/i&gt; fact, since I&#039;m trying to avoid inference) that for reasons I don&#039;t understand, the American Left made up its mind about Trump at the same time that it made up its mind about, say, W. Bush - that is, before either one &lt;i&gt;actually did or said&lt;/i&gt; anything. I understand, in the political realm, making up your mind about your as-yet-unknown opponent&#039;s general political philosophy and perhaps his likely policy proscriptions based on his party. But the Leftist tendency to make up their minds about the personality, moral character, life goals, and probably recycling habits of their political opponents will never - never - make sense to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But WRT the confirmation bias on the Left: two things. First, it scares me a little that I am also, of course, subject to confirmation bias. Throughout this goat-rope I&#8217;ve been trying to be sure to go to original sources and make up my mind about what they <i>actually do or say</i> rather than what I&#8217;d like them to do or say, but it&#8217;s still disconcerting to realize that I might be misreading things too.</p>
<p>Second, I suppose I should accept the fact (the <i>prima facie</i> fact, since I&#8217;m trying to avoid inference) that for reasons I don&#8217;t understand, the American Left made up its mind about Trump at the same time that it made up its mind about, say, W. Bush &#8211; that is, before either one <i>actually did or said</i> anything. I understand, in the political realm, making up your mind about your as-yet-unknown opponent&#8217;s general political philosophy and perhaps his likely policy proscriptions based on his party. But the Leftist tendency to make up their minds about the personality, moral character, life goals, and probably recycling habits of their political opponents will never &#8211; never &#8211; make sense to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jamie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471628</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471628</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo - yes, confirmation bias, surely - but what in the transcript or witness testimony &lt;i&gt;confirms&lt;/i&gt; what they believe? Yet they&#039;ll cite both as &lt;i&gt;evidence&lt;/i&gt; of their opinion, apparently oblivious to the fact that their opinion (like the witness testimony) rests flatly and solely on their making suppositions about the President&#039;s state of mind and unspoken intent.

I think it&#039;s over at Althouse that there&#039;s a commenter who&#039;s constantly trying to get Althouse&#039;s goat about feminism. This commenter is forever saying things like, &quot;This is what you get when you let women vote/hold public office/whatever. It&#039;s all about the feelz.&quot; She doesn&#039;t rise to his (I assume &quot;his&quot;) bait, nor does anyone else any more. But my Lord, I&#039;m almost starting to agree with him. The entire American Left seems to be like me fighting with my now-husband when we were first dating, when I was always drawing bootless inferences about what he was &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; thinking, what he &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; meant by whatever comment or action, and attacking him on that basis. He&#039;d put up his hands in front of him as if to fend me off, his eyes would bug out, and he&#039;d exclaim, &quot;What are you &lt;i&gt;talking&lt;/i&gt; about? I got myself another beer but didn&#039;t get you one because you still had three-quarters of yours! Do you &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; another right now? Because I&#039;ll get you one - but you &lt;i&gt;still have three-quarters of yours.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

(It&#039;s a miracle we got married at all, much less have stayed that way for a quarter century. If he hadn&#039;t been as stupid and messed up as I was, only in complementary ways, it never would&#039;ve worked.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo &#8211; yes, confirmation bias, surely &#8211; but what in the transcript or witness testimony <i>confirms</i> what they believe? Yet they&#8217;ll cite both as <i>evidence</i> of their opinion, apparently oblivious to the fact that their opinion (like the witness testimony) rests flatly and solely on their making suppositions about the President&#8217;s state of mind and unspoken intent.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s over at Althouse that there&#8217;s a commenter who&#8217;s constantly trying to get Althouse&#8217;s goat about feminism. This commenter is forever saying things like, &#8220;This is what you get when you let women vote/hold public office/whatever. It&#8217;s all about the feelz.&#8221; She doesn&#8217;t rise to his (I assume &#8220;his&#8221;) bait, nor does anyone else any more. But my Lord, I&#8217;m almost starting to agree with him. The entire American Left seems to be like me fighting with my now-husband when we were first dating, when I was always drawing bootless inferences about what he was <i>really</i> thinking, what he <i>really</i> meant by whatever comment or action, and attacking him on that basis. He&#8217;d put up his hands in front of him as if to fend me off, his eyes would bug out, and he&#8217;d exclaim, &#8220;What are you <i>talking</i> about? I got myself another beer but didn&#8217;t get you one because you still had three-quarters of yours! Do you <i>want</i> another right now? Because I&#8217;ll get you one &#8211; but you <i>still have three-quarters of yours.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>(It&#8217;s a miracle we got married at all, much less have stayed that way for a quarter century. If he hadn&#8217;t been as stupid and messed up as I was, only in complementary ways, it never would&#8217;ve worked.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: eeyore		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471589</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eeyore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471589</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan,

Thank you for your addition as I couldn&#039;t figure out how to work that bit in. It enhanced my small work by quite a bit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan,</p>
<p>Thank you for your addition as I couldn&#8217;t figure out how to work that bit in. It enhanced my small work by quite a bit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471586</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471586</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[eeyore on December 19, 2019 at 5:42 pm said:
An impeachment parody of A Man For All Seasons. (Or is it?)
* * *
Bravo.

I would add:
Trump: “When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties, they lead their country by a short route to chaos.” ...
“Why Adam, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. . . but for Congress!”]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eeyore on December 19, 2019 at 5:42 pm said:<br />
An impeachment parody of A Man For All Seasons. (Or is it?)<br />
* * *<br />
Bravo.</p>
<p>I would add:<br />
Trump: “When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties, they lead their country by a short route to chaos.” &#8230;<br />
“Why Adam, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. . . but for Congress!”</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471561</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 02:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471561</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jamie:

&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Confirmation bias&lt;/a&gt;.

And reading only sources on the left, and being surrounded by people who think the same as you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamie:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias" rel="nofollow">Confirmation bias</a>.</p>
<p>And reading only sources on the left, and being surrounded by people who think the same as you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jamie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471558</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 02:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471558</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Every time I&#039;m unfortunate enough to hear those on the other side express their view of all this, I feel that I&#039;ve jumped through the looking glass. I don&#039;t get - in any way at all - how my friends on the Left can look at the &lt;i&gt;same&lt;/i&gt; facts that I&#039;ve been looking at and come to such radically different conclusions. How do you read the phone call transcript, hear the witness (&quot;witness&quot;!) testimony, note that no subpoenas were adjudicated, and still believe with your whole being that, first, the President is a would-be dictator who was putting the screws to an ally invaluable to American national security, and second, the President showed his would-be dictator stripes by defying (&quot;defying&quot;!) a coequal branch of government?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every time I&#8217;m unfortunate enough to hear those on the other side express their view of all this, I feel that I&#8217;ve jumped through the looking glass. I don&#8217;t get &#8211; in any way at all &#8211; how my friends on the Left can look at the <i>same</i> facts that I&#8217;ve been looking at and come to such radically different conclusions. How do you read the phone call transcript, hear the witness (&#8220;witness&#8221;!) testimony, note that no subpoenas were adjudicated, and still believe with your whole being that, first, the President is a would-be dictator who was putting the screws to an ally invaluable to American national security, and second, the President showed his would-be dictator stripes by defying (&#8220;defying&#8221;!) a coequal branch of government?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amadeus 48		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471540</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amadeus 48]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471540</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I feel the same way I have felt since I read the transcript of the Kerensky call. There is nothing to this. The Democrats have embarrassed themselves and are attempting to deflect attention away from anything but the headline, &quot;Trump Impeached.&quot;

Pelosi really isn&#039;t very good at her job. McConnell is very good at his. Graham has finally found a voice that goes beyond singing duets with McCain.

It&#039;s a been pretty good year,all in all, starting with the unmasking of Mueller.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel the same way I have felt since I read the transcript of the Kerensky call. There is nothing to this. The Democrats have embarrassed themselves and are attempting to deflect attention away from anything but the headline, &#8220;Trump Impeached.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pelosi really isn&#8217;t very good at her job. McConnell is very good at his. Graham has finally found a voice that goes beyond singing duets with McCain.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a been pretty good year,all in all, starting with the unmasking of Mueller.</p>
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		<title>
		By: eeyore		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471470</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eeyore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2019 22:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471470</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[An impeachment parody of A Man For All Seasons. (Or is it?)

Schiff: I wish to call Vindman.

Schiff: We will dispense with the swearing in since we all know he is telling the truth.

Schiff: Were you on the call with the Ukrainian minister?

Vindman: Yes I was.

Schiff: Did you hear the conversation regarding aid?

Vindman: Yes.

Schiff: Tell us what you heard.

Vindman: Trump said, &quot;I need a favor from you. I want you to investigate Biden.&quot;

Trump: But we have a transcript of the call.

Pelosi: Silence! Continue.

Vindman: Trump said he would withhold the aid unless Ukraine reopened the investigation into Biden. It was in his own words, &quot;quid pro quo,&quot; or words to that effect.

Schiff: So he offered a bribe to a foreign country to intimidate his political rival.

Vindman: He did or so I presume.

Schiff: Do you deny this?

Trump: I do. Is it probable? Is it probable that after such a long Mueller investigation on this very point of foreign interference that, on a call monitored by all kinds of people, that I would offer a bribe or quid pro quo?

Schiff: The House should now retire to deliberate.

Pelosi: Considering the evidence, it shouldn&#039;t be necessary for them to deliberate is it?

Dems and the media all shout No!

Pelosi: What is the verdict?

Dems and the media all shout Guilty!

Pelosi: Mr. Trump, you have been found guilty of treason, bribery, making our jobs harder by having to deal with you and making people cry with your tweets. I now sentence you to...

Trump: I have something to say. After I and our country have endured investigation after investigation, from the FBI and CIA to Mueller and you, how I was found guilty of anything, only God knows how.

Pelosi: Now we see you are malicious and treasonous when the people&#039;s representatives have convicted you by your own words.

Trump: Not so, I love the people and my country. I work on their behalf to have greater opportunities and protect them. Nevertheless. It is not for Russia or Ukraine that you have sought my impeachment. It is because I would not lose the election!

Dems and the media scream with outrage.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An impeachment parody of A Man For All Seasons. (Or is it?)</p>
<p>Schiff: I wish to call Vindman.</p>
<p>Schiff: We will dispense with the swearing in since we all know he is telling the truth.</p>
<p>Schiff: Were you on the call with the Ukrainian minister?</p>
<p>Vindman: Yes I was.</p>
<p>Schiff: Did you hear the conversation regarding aid?</p>
<p>Vindman: Yes.</p>
<p>Schiff: Tell us what you heard.</p>
<p>Vindman: Trump said, &#8220;I need a favor from you. I want you to investigate Biden.&#8221;</p>
<p>Trump: But we have a transcript of the call.</p>
<p>Pelosi: Silence! Continue.</p>
<p>Vindman: Trump said he would withhold the aid unless Ukraine reopened the investigation into Biden. It was in his own words, &#8220;quid pro quo,&#8221; or words to that effect.</p>
<p>Schiff: So he offered a bribe to a foreign country to intimidate his political rival.</p>
<p>Vindman: He did or so I presume.</p>
<p>Schiff: Do you deny this?</p>
<p>Trump: I do. Is it probable? Is it probable that after such a long Mueller investigation on this very point of foreign interference that, on a call monitored by all kinds of people, that I would offer a bribe or quid pro quo?</p>
<p>Schiff: The House should now retire to deliberate.</p>
<p>Pelosi: Considering the evidence, it shouldn&#8217;t be necessary for them to deliberate is it?</p>
<p>Dems and the media all shout No!</p>
<p>Pelosi: What is the verdict?</p>
<p>Dems and the media all shout Guilty!</p>
<p>Pelosi: Mr. Trump, you have been found guilty of treason, bribery, making our jobs harder by having to deal with you and making people cry with your tweets. I now sentence you to&#8230;</p>
<p>Trump: I have something to say. After I and our country have endured investigation after investigation, from the FBI and CIA to Mueller and you, how I was found guilty of anything, only God knows how.</p>
<p>Pelosi: Now we see you are malicious and treasonous when the people&#8217;s representatives have convicted you by your own words.</p>
<p>Trump: Not so, I love the people and my country. I work on their behalf to have greater opportunities and protect them. Nevertheless. It is not for Russia or Ukraine that you have sought my impeachment. It is because I would not lose the election!</p>
<p>Dems and the media scream with outrage.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Grey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/12/19/who-is-more-disgraced-trump-or-the-democrats-in-the-house/#comment-2471467</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Grey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2019 22:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=91901#comment-2471467</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Democrats are disgracing themselves.  All are abusing their offices, but this will only count if the American people rid the House of such disgusting House members.

It&#039;s not clear that will happen, meaning it&#039;s clear lots of Americans think Trump is worse than such slimy Democrats.

This sad state of American affairs is mostly due to decades of college discrimination against hiring Rep professors.  This leads to acceptance of polarization and demonization, and emotional hate binges rather that attempts to logically persuade others.  

Dem Indoctrination centers should lose all tax-exempt status.  Students who are Republicans at colleges which advertise &quot;diversity&quot; should be suing their colleges for false advertising.  And winning.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democrats are disgracing themselves.  All are abusing their offices, but this will only count if the American people rid the House of such disgusting House members.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not clear that will happen, meaning it&#8217;s clear lots of Americans think Trump is worse than such slimy Democrats.</p>
<p>This sad state of American affairs is mostly due to decades of college discrimination against hiring Rep professors.  This leads to acceptance of polarization and demonization, and emotional hate binges rather that attempts to logically persuade others.  </p>
<p>Dem Indoctrination centers should lose all tax-exempt status.  Students who are Republicans at colleges which advertise &#8220;diversity&#8221; should be suing their colleges for false advertising.  And winning.</p>
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