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	Comments on: The religious voter and Trump	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Rykehaven		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460610</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rykehaven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2019 11:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460610</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Umm...those commenters who are criticizing Trump don&#039;t sound like Conservatives or religious people.

My advice is not to listen too much to comments - don&#039;t let them influence you; and just advertise your views and let others react to you. 

For example, if you look at the comment history of the &quot;Sorry, I still cannot vote for Trump,&quot; he&#039;s claiming to be a middle school teacher who advocates transgenderism for his-her students.

&quot;...there is no single way to be a boy or a girl.&quot;

&quot;I think this is true, and I think it was easier, in spite of what could be seen as more rigid roles in mid-20th century culture, for children maturing before the Sexual Revolution and such an openly sex-saturated culture. There was more time for them to be children. However, there are so many cultural messages given, including those given by proponents of teaching the highlighted curriculum, that are contrary to this statement. I always point to advertising and the messages presented therein, both explicit and implicit. No matter what the inclusive political message may be, there is simply no escaping the stereotypes, even among those messengers. The inclusive folks are pressuring the kids just as much as those who pressure with stereotypes. No wonder so many children who may already arrive at puberty with difficulties that range from &quot;normal growing pains&quot; to deep wounds are plunged into further confusion.

I work part time as a substitute teacher in middle school and high school, and have encountered a few students who believe they&#039;re trans. So far they have all been girls who cut their hair short and dress more &quot;boyishly&quot;. Observing the middle schoolers particularly, it is clear to me that they are simply trying to carve out some space and time to mature, in order to be less stressed with regard to gender stereotypes and pressure to be overtly sexual.&quot;

And on and on and on...

This person is sick.  And I really hope he-she is lying about being a school teacher for young kids.  These are the kinds of &quot;people&quot; (Assuming they&#039;re not bots or trolls or plain frauds) you are thinking of bringing &quot;into the tent&quot; (when you should be excluding them).

So it&#039;s no wonder.  He-she doesn&#039;t mind American Church&#039;s losing their tax-exempt status over LGBT; he probably advocates it the same way Beto does - and he&#039;s doing it under false pretenses.

This is why Church&#039;s which purposely exclude LGBT are the only ones to survive.  Why do you think the sexual abuse int he Catholic Church occurred?  Do you honestly think sodomozing boys is something a &quot;straight&quot;, normal priest would do?  Furthermore, he claims to be an Orthodox Christian - and he&#039;s clearly lying, based simply on the way he references bible and speaks mostly in ridiculous general terms of &quot;Scripture&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm&#8230;those commenters who are criticizing Trump don&#8217;t sound like Conservatives or religious people.</p>
<p>My advice is not to listen too much to comments &#8211; don&#8217;t let them influence you; and just advertise your views and let others react to you. </p>
<p>For example, if you look at the comment history of the &#8220;Sorry, I still cannot vote for Trump,&#8221; he&#8217;s claiming to be a middle school teacher who advocates transgenderism for his-her students.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;there is no single way to be a boy or a girl.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I think this is true, and I think it was easier, in spite of what could be seen as more rigid roles in mid-20th century culture, for children maturing before the Sexual Revolution and such an openly sex-saturated culture. There was more time for them to be children. However, there are so many cultural messages given, including those given by proponents of teaching the highlighted curriculum, that are contrary to this statement. I always point to advertising and the messages presented therein, both explicit and implicit. No matter what the inclusive political message may be, there is simply no escaping the stereotypes, even among those messengers. The inclusive folks are pressuring the kids just as much as those who pressure with stereotypes. No wonder so many children who may already arrive at puberty with difficulties that range from &#8220;normal growing pains&#8221; to deep wounds are plunged into further confusion.</p>
<p>I work part time as a substitute teacher in middle school and high school, and have encountered a few students who believe they&#8217;re trans. So far they have all been girls who cut their hair short and dress more &#8220;boyishly&#8221;. Observing the middle schoolers particularly, it is clear to me that they are simply trying to carve out some space and time to mature, in order to be less stressed with regard to gender stereotypes and pressure to be overtly sexual.&#8221;</p>
<p>And on and on and on&#8230;</p>
<p>This person is sick.  And I really hope he-she is lying about being a school teacher for young kids.  These are the kinds of &#8220;people&#8221; (Assuming they&#8217;re not bots or trolls or plain frauds) you are thinking of bringing &#8220;into the tent&#8221; (when you should be excluding them).</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s no wonder.  He-she doesn&#8217;t mind American Church&#8217;s losing their tax-exempt status over LGBT; he probably advocates it the same way Beto does &#8211; and he&#8217;s doing it under false pretenses.</p>
<p>This is why Church&#8217;s which purposely exclude LGBT are the only ones to survive.  Why do you think the sexual abuse int he Catholic Church occurred?  Do you honestly think sodomozing boys is something a &#8220;straight&#8221;, normal priest would do?  Furthermore, he claims to be an Orthodox Christian &#8211; and he&#8217;s clearly lying, based simply on the way he references bible and speaks mostly in ridiculous general terms of &#8220;Scripture&#8221;.</p>
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		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460427</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2019 23:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460427</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There were many people here who liked Trum but wouldn&#039;t like Ymar&#039;s behavior which was like 10% of Trum, directed towards them. The reason why people don&#039;t like Trum is because they are afraid of Trum&#039;s behavior being directed towards them. Look up Rosie O-Donnel.

I found it interesting to say the least, that my most vociferous critics were criticizing me for the same traits that they admired in Trum. It just depends on whose ox is being gored.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were many people here who liked Trum but wouldn&#8217;t like Ymar&#8217;s behavior which was like 10% of Trum, directed towards them. The reason why people don&#8217;t like Trum is because they are afraid of Trum&#8217;s behavior being directed towards them. Look up Rosie O-Donnel.</p>
<p>I found it interesting to say the least, that my most vociferous critics were criticizing me for the same traits that they admired in Trum. It just depends on whose ox is being gored.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Logan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460339</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Logan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2019 13:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460339</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Electing a Democrat to he president is akin to playing russian roullete with a fully loaded firearm. I voted for trump in 2016 because though he too has a gun, I thought it might have just one or two bullets. I thought he was destructive, but their was less of a chance that our republic would be destroyed. Now it is 2020 and I&#039;m convinced that his gun is filled entirely with blanks, and their will be no hesitation voting for him this time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Electing a Democrat to he president is akin to playing russian roullete with a fully loaded firearm. I voted for trump in 2016 because though he too has a gun, I thought it might have just one or two bullets. I thought he was destructive, but their was less of a chance that our republic would be destroyed. Now it is 2020 and I&#8217;m convinced that his gun is filled entirely with blanks, and their will be no hesitation voting for him this time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jamie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460333</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2019 12:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460333</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mac, I&#039;ve also stopped in at your blog as a result of this thread and will visit again. I look forward to hearing more, and when I&#039;m not so wearily consumed with politics, especially to hearing more of your thoughts on living in America as a religious person.

I&#039;m trying to sort out my *feelings,* versus my *observations,* about Trump. There is a nonzero possibility that one of my *feelings* that stands in opposition to my general dislike of the man (also a feeling, and not one that, so far, I&#039;ve let get in the way of my approval of his attempts to keep campaign promises and his surprisingly conservative actions) is my sense that he&#039;s acting at times out of a realization that he has nothing to lose.

People talk about his &quot;tarnished brand.&quot; Good Lord, how does it get more &quot;tarnished&quot; than being a national laughingstock for your *hair*? Or for your little verbal stinger (&quot;Yeh FIRED!&quot;)? He&#039;s rich, he&#039;s got a thriving family that can exist independent of the goodwill of their socioeconomic peers, he&#039;s failed multiple times and come back from it so there&#039;s no more stigma or pain that failure can cause him, those socioeconomic peers already think he&#039;s a buffoon... He&#039;s *free,* in the same way that Jubal Harshaw was free in &quot;Stranger in a Strange Land&quot; - free not to give a flying whatever. I want to be that free, darn it. But I&#039;m not, 
at least in part through my own squeamishness about being thought ill of by *my* peers, so maybe his radical personal freedom is a proxy for what I want but don&#039;t yet have. Maybe it lets me see through my distaste of some of his personal characteristics to observe his actions a little more objectively.

Heck, I dunno. Maybe he&#039;s just a puzzle wrapped in an enigma and all that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mac, I&#8217;ve also stopped in at your blog as a result of this thread and will visit again. I look forward to hearing more, and when I&#8217;m not so wearily consumed with politics, especially to hearing more of your thoughts on living in America as a religious person.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to sort out my *feelings,* versus my *observations,* about Trump. There is a nonzero possibility that one of my *feelings* that stands in opposition to my general dislike of the man (also a feeling, and not one that, so far, I&#8217;ve let get in the way of my approval of his attempts to keep campaign promises and his surprisingly conservative actions) is my sense that he&#8217;s acting at times out of a realization that he has nothing to lose.</p>
<p>People talk about his &#8220;tarnished brand.&#8221; Good Lord, how does it get more &#8220;tarnished&#8221; than being a national laughingstock for your *hair*? Or for your little verbal stinger (&#8220;Yeh FIRED!&#8221;)? He&#8217;s rich, he&#8217;s got a thriving family that can exist independent of the goodwill of their socioeconomic peers, he&#8217;s failed multiple times and come back from it so there&#8217;s no more stigma or pain that failure can cause him, those socioeconomic peers already think he&#8217;s a buffoon&#8230; He&#8217;s *free,* in the same way that Jubal Harshaw was free in &#8220;Stranger in a Strange Land&#8221; &#8211; free not to give a flying whatever. I want to be that free, darn it. But I&#8217;m not,<br />
at least in part through my own squeamishness about being thought ill of by *my* peers, so maybe his radical personal freedom is a proxy for what I want but don&#8217;t yet have. Maybe it lets me see through my distaste of some of his personal characteristics to observe his actions a little more objectively.</p>
<p>Heck, I dunno. Maybe he&#8217;s just a puzzle wrapped in an enigma and all that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Acksiom		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460302</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Acksiom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2019 03:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460302</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#062;The reason I don’t do it is that it would take a *lot* of time and I have way too much work to do. It’s not any one thing, and I’d have to spend a lot of time tracking down sources etc.

And the reasonable, objective determination that this is just a face-saving rationalization is because of the amount of time and words you&#039;ve already spent avoiding the presentation of any examples of any kind at all.

So by your own behavior it&#039;s not a credible excuse. If you had the spare time and energy to strawman others and repeat yourself as many times as you have in this thread, you had the spare time and energy to provide just a couple of examples of your &quot;reasonable, objective&quot; evidence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;The reason I don’t do it is that it would take a *lot* of time and I have way too much work to do. It’s not any one thing, and I’d have to spend a lot of time tracking down sources etc.</p>
<p>And the reasonable, objective determination that this is just a face-saving rationalization is because of the amount of time and words you&#8217;ve already spent avoiding the presentation of any examples of any kind at all.</p>
<p>So by your own behavior it&#8217;s not a credible excuse. If you had the spare time and energy to strawman others and repeat yourself as many times as you have in this thread, you had the spare time and energy to provide just a couple of examples of your &#8220;reasonable, objective&#8221; evidence.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Otto Zilch		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Otto Zilch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2019 03:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s pretty simple: Mac and the other &quot;Christian believers&quot; are just seminar callers, repeating talking points they hope will dissuade conservatives from supporting the president.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty simple: Mac and the other &#8220;Christian believers&#8221; are just seminar callers, repeating talking points they hope will dissuade conservatives from supporting the president.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mac		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460193</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Oct 2019 22:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460193</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom Grey, glad you found the blog interesting. You said:

&quot;I think there are plenty of “unknown”, not-on-Wiki people who can be interviewed and express right-based hate against Dems. But these are not “public figures”. All the public figure hate I see, including Trump (where I don’t see hate so much as mockery of Fake News, for instance), all the hate examples are from Dems.&quot;

I think that&#039;s absolutely right, and important. I don&#039;t personally know any public figures of either party, but I think the syndrome is pretty much true down at the everyday-people level. It&#039;s not just that I hear more hate from the liberals I know, but that they seem to be utterly unaware that they are in fact hateful. Or, if they are not in fact hating (giving them the benefit of the doubt), that they sure do come across that way. I did a blog post about that some time ago, maybe as much as ten years, and it&#039;s only gotten worse. A few times I&#039;ve tried to tell them how they come across to those who don&#039;t agree, and they just do not see it at all. In their eyes I think (conjecture) they&#039;re just telling the truth. If they call you a bigot, it&#039;s not hate, it&#039;s because you are one (in their eyes, obviously).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Grey, glad you found the blog interesting. You said:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think there are plenty of “unknown”, not-on-Wiki people who can be interviewed and express right-based hate against Dems. But these are not “public figures”. All the public figure hate I see, including Trump (where I don’t see hate so much as mockery of Fake News, for instance), all the hate examples are from Dems.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s absolutely right, and important. I don&#8217;t personally know any public figures of either party, but I think the syndrome is pretty much true down at the everyday-people level. It&#8217;s not just that I hear more hate from the liberals I know, but that they seem to be utterly unaware that they are in fact hateful. Or, if they are not in fact hating (giving them the benefit of the doubt), that they sure do come across that way. I did a blog post about that some time ago, maybe as much as ten years, and it&#8217;s only gotten worse. A few times I&#8217;ve tried to tell them how they come across to those who don&#8217;t agree, and they just do not see it at all. In their eyes I think (conjecture) they&#8217;re just telling the truth. If they call you a bigot, it&#8217;s not hate, it&#8217;s because you are one (in their eyes, obviously).</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460116</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Oct 2019 20:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460116</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mac, the concern troll, gives arguments for not voting for President Trump in 2020.  Are you also a blockhead who hasn&#039;t seen what the Democrats have been up to since 2016 and what they are proposing currently?  Mac&#039;s &quot;Trump is icky&quot; is way past 11.  Just come out of the closet Mac and identify as a Democrat.  Your fan dance isn&#039;t convincing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mac, the concern troll, gives arguments for not voting for President Trump in 2020.  Are you also a blockhead who hasn&#8217;t seen what the Democrats have been up to since 2016 and what they are proposing currently?  Mac&#8217;s &#8220;Trump is icky&#8221; is way past 11.  Just come out of the closet Mac and identify as a Democrat.  Your fan dance isn&#8217;t convincing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460114</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460114</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s where we can appreciate Mac&#039;s position, when he says, &lt;i&gt;&quot;Unless something changes really dramatically, I’ll either vote for Trump next year or, **IF I’M SURE** that it won’t affect the outcome, vote third party. That “if” was a pretty sure thing in 2016, possibly less so in 2020, due to those scurrilous attempts to manipulate the electoral college.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;  I am hoping that my conservative Christian friends who have large reservations about Trump&#039;s personality will make the same decision.

As to Trump&#039;s religious status, I have no idea if he&#039;s had a religious conversion experience.  These do not usually change one&#039;s whole personality, by the way.  In my church&#039;s liturgy, we pray weekly for the president by name.  We did the same thing for Obama for eight years.  I never saw any sign that Obama had opened his heart and mind in response to my prayers.  As to Trump, I don&#039;t know that, either, but I do know that he has tried to keep policy promises he made, which is more than many, perhaps most, politicians do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s where we can appreciate Mac&#8217;s position, when he says, <i>&#8220;Unless something changes really dramatically, I’ll either vote for Trump next year or, **IF I’M SURE** that it won’t affect the outcome, vote third party. That “if” was a pretty sure thing in 2016, possibly less so in 2020, due to those scurrilous attempts to manipulate the electoral college.&#8221;</i>  I am hoping that my conservative Christian friends who have large reservations about Trump&#8217;s personality will make the same decision.</p>
<p>As to Trump&#8217;s religious status, I have no idea if he&#8217;s had a religious conversion experience.  These do not usually change one&#8217;s whole personality, by the way.  In my church&#8217;s liturgy, we pray weekly for the president by name.  We did the same thing for Obama for eight years.  I never saw any sign that Obama had opened his heart and mind in response to my prayers.  As to Trump, I don&#8217;t know that, either, but I do know that he has tried to keep policy promises he made, which is more than many, perhaps most, politicians do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sharon W		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/10/19/the-religious-voter-and-trump/#comment-2460111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sharon W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=90527#comment-2460111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a devout Catholic (returned to the faith 20 years ago) who spent 10 years with the evangelicals, my perspective is that in both Christian communities there is a contingent of people that believe they are the poster-child of Christianity and that their success in reeling people into the faith will be by way of being loving, forgiving, hip, cool, smart, successful...basically fill in the blank with any of the adjectives that are esteemed by the world or behaviors understood to be required by Christ&#039;s commands, &quot;do not judge&quot; etc etc.  I am amazed at the number of evangelicals that have gone on record (people I knew personally) to embrace homosexual marriage.  Among Catholics I don&#039;t know any personally though of course they are out there.  In Neo&#039;s post and in many of the comments the fact has been stated that Trump is deemed vulgar, coarse, foolish and so on.  This most certainly is driving their hatred and contempt.  Wanting to align themselves with the &quot;popular kids&quot; (sorry, I can&#039;t help myself) accounts for so much of it.  As a Catholic familiar with the bible and the reality of what Jesus, his followers and many, many saints endured in terms of public hatred, contempt, shame, brutality and death, I can&#039;t help but wonder how a person believes they will stand for the gospel when they can&#039;t even abide being disliked or misunderstood, as are we (my family) as Trump supporters. Trump himself is a great example of courage to withstand public abuse. Let the chips fall where they will.  I know this is nothing compared to what has been suffered down through the ages and not so long ago the suffering and death caused by the Communists and Nazis of Europe. I think we are a very immature culture, a large number of the last few generations not having paid any of the true sacrifice that accounts for our success and prosperity, so it isn&#039;t properly valued or protected.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a devout Catholic (returned to the faith 20 years ago) who spent 10 years with the evangelicals, my perspective is that in both Christian communities there is a contingent of people that believe they are the poster-child of Christianity and that their success in reeling people into the faith will be by way of being loving, forgiving, hip, cool, smart, successful&#8230;basically fill in the blank with any of the adjectives that are esteemed by the world or behaviors understood to be required by Christ&#8217;s commands, &#8220;do not judge&#8221; etc etc.  I am amazed at the number of evangelicals that have gone on record (people I knew personally) to embrace homosexual marriage.  Among Catholics I don&#8217;t know any personally though of course they are out there.  In Neo&#8217;s post and in many of the comments the fact has been stated that Trump is deemed vulgar, coarse, foolish and so on.  This most certainly is driving their hatred and contempt.  Wanting to align themselves with the &#8220;popular kids&#8221; (sorry, I can&#8217;t help myself) accounts for so much of it.  As a Catholic familiar with the bible and the reality of what Jesus, his followers and many, many saints endured in terms of public hatred, contempt, shame, brutality and death, I can&#8217;t help but wonder how a person believes they will stand for the gospel when they can&#8217;t even abide being disliked or misunderstood, as are we (my family) as Trump supporters. Trump himself is a great example of courage to withstand public abuse. Let the chips fall where they will.  I know this is nothing compared to what has been suffered down through the ages and not so long ago the suffering and death caused by the Communists and Nazis of Europe. I think we are a very immature culture, a large number of the last few generations not having paid any of the true sacrifice that accounts for our success and prosperity, so it isn&#8217;t properly valued or protected.</p>
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