Comments on: Chaos: Jordan Peterson on being cheated on

By: Bryan Hann

Bryan Hann — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:33:12 +0000

GB asks “So perhaps it’s not personal but why then Peterson’s passionate assertion that it leaves the betrayed ‘rudderless’?”

Remember that Peterson is has practiced clinical psychology for years. No doubt many of his views are informed by this.

By: AesopFan

AesopFan — Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:25:44 +0000

Art Deco on September 9, 2019 at 10:31 am said:
…every once in a while you encounter someone formally betrayed who was, er, asking for it. Some people are quite adept at inducing compassion fatigue.
* * *
These two statements are positively correlated, but separable.

“Asking for it” does not justify tit-for-tat behavior (betrayal for betrayal), as there are other ways to get out of the situation without compromising one’s own moral values.

to om: Stats are not needed to confirm anecdotal data.
If anyone can produce a study of the incidence of compassion fatigue, I would love to see it, but “every once in a while” is the operative condition.

Most of us, most of the time, don’t have to deal with people like that; that’s why it is so easy not to recognize what is happening, and get sucked into the lies and betrayals.

“Compassion fatigue” is a real thing, and can occur in contexts other than adultery and interpersonal betrayal (entire groups have lost my sympathy over the last decade, because of their aggressive ingratitude and incessant demands).

People (groups) with toxic personalities (demands) who harp on only the negative aspects of their lives, the chronically-needy who don’t take responsibility for their own lives, and the in-your-face transgressors are debilitating, and a source of burn-out for anyone in a friendship, family, or profession who has to deal with them constantly.

I have personal anecdotes galore, but no stats. The solution is disengagement where at all possible. For those feeling guilty about maybe not being compassionate enough with this kind of person, some words of advice out of LDS tradition:

Mosiah 4:27 – And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1994/06/wisdom-and-order?lang=eng

Lots of secular literature on the subject as well; this is a good start.
https://greatist.com/live/dealing-with-a-toxic-person#3

By: Kate

Kate — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 17:24:33 +0000

As to Jesus quoting Psalm 22, there was a huge controversy early in Christianity, in which Marcion and others said that the Hebrew scriptures were entirely superseded by the message of Christ. That’s not what Jesus himself said, and the Church rejected the argument. Since Jesus taught that he was the fulfillment of the Scriptures, i.e., the Hebrew Scriptures, non-heretical Christians have always understood the many references Jesus made to the scriptures as meaning the message to the Hebrews was integral to his own ministry. (Naturally, Jewish rabbis don’t see this the same way. Christian readers see Christ where Jewish readers do not.)

By: Kate

Kate — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 17:18:18 +0000

When I discovered that my stepmother was a pathological liar and sociopath, that she was mistreating my dad in his decline, that she was scheming to take his money without his consent, and when I had to hire a lawyer to defend Daddy and several other relatives from her lies, my life was in chaos. It was so hard to accept that someone could be doing these things deliberately. All respect to those who have endured even more devastating betrayals.

By: NateWhilk

NateWhilk — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 17:15:25 +0000

GB wrote, “why then Peterson’s passionate assertion that it leaves the betrayed ‘rudderless’?”

1. I’m sure he’s seen it many times in the course of his psychology practice.

2. He’s a very empathetic person. Witness him almost weeping at what society is doing to men.

By: om

om — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 14:48:58 +0000

Art Deco:

Can you cite any statistics on that profound wisdom? /s

By: Art Deco

Art Deco — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 14:31:27 +0000

Failure to adhere is simply betrayal. Period.

True. It’s also true that every once in a while you encounter someone formally betrayed who was, er, asking for it. Some people are quite adept at inducing compassion fatigue.

By: Roy Nathanson

Roy Nathanson — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 14:20:44 +0000

Lowtech,

Forgiving someone does not necessarily mean trusting them, loving them, or even liking them again. Forgiving is simply understanding them sufficiently to not hate any longer. Harbouring anger and hate within us damages ourselves, not the target of those feelings.

By: parker

parker — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 06:00:16 +0000

I am always amazed by the number of words. On this topic and most others, why so many commentors feel a need for so many of words?.

Simply, when 2 people enter in a relationship they have, in most cases, agreed to remain faithful to each other. Period. Failure to adhere is simply betrayal. Period.

By: n.n

n.n — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 05:54:06 +0000

Faith is a logical domain. We cannot reach conclusions about articles of faith through observation, replication, and deduction. The scientific logical domain is notoriously limited in time and space. There are historical myths to believe in the existence of an extra-universal entity. There are scientific myths (e.g. circumstantial evidence, often liberal assumptions/assertions, inference) to believe in past reconstructions (e.g. evolutionary creation, “Big Bang”), future prophecies (e.g. CAGW), and anything beyond the edge of our solar system. The difference is that we cannot expect to access the faith logical domain without trust (e.g. external aid). Similarly, we cannot observe, replicate, and deduce the past, or anything outside of the near-domain, but there may be cause that we will eventually venture beyond the edge of our solar system, and reduce the uncertainty of the intermediate space. In the meantime, there is faith, a separation of logical domains, and a post-normal science that threatens scientific integrity and productivity, and to force an extraordinary developmental misalignment (e.g. “great leap”, selective-child, diversity).