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	Comments on: Let&#8217;s talk about China	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Joe Mack		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2453119</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Mack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Aug 2019 20:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2453119</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Taiwan is watching.  Viet Nam is watching.  India, Pakistan and Japan are watching.
China is showing it is still Maoist Red China, with markets but still under the control of the CCP and the PLA.  It does not uphold treaties.  It is a lawless state.
It may be a paper tiger, so afraid of any dissent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taiwan is watching.  Viet Nam is watching.  India, Pakistan and Japan are watching.<br />
China is showing it is still Maoist Red China, with markets but still under the control of the CCP and the PLA.  It does not uphold treaties.  It is a lawless state.<br />
It may be a paper tiger, so afraid of any dissent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2453040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Aug 2019 02:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2453040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Zheng He’s giant junks circumnavigated the world ,&quot;

Junk history indeed --]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Zheng He’s giant junks circumnavigated the world ,&#8221;</p>
<p>Junk history indeed &#8212;</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2453039</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Aug 2019 02:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2453039</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ann on August 24, 2019 at 4:15 pm said:
There’s a British guy, Gavin Menzies, who wrote a best-selling book saying the Chinese did get to Australia before anyone else:
* * *
The book &quot;1421&quot; has been on my shelf for a couple of years; guess I won&#039;t rush to read it anytime soon!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann on August 24, 2019 at 4:15 pm said:<br />
There’s a British guy, Gavin Menzies, who wrote a best-selling book saying the Chinese did get to Australia before anyone else:<br />
* * *<br />
The book &#8220;1421&#8221; has been on my shelf for a couple of years; guess I won&#8217;t rush to read it anytime soon!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2452988</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2019 20:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2452988</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s a British guy, Gavin Menzies, who wrote a best-selling book saying the Chinese did get to Australia before anyone else:&lt;blockquote&gt;Menzies, an elderly Englishman with an easy charm, has written a thick best-selling volume called &quot;1421 - The Year China Discovered the World&quot;. It&#039;s an alternative history of world discovery centred on Zheng He, a celebrated Chinese mariner. Zheng He was real and remarkable - but perhaps not as remarkable as Menzies claims, for he suggests that the fifteenth century eunuch admiral and his captains set out on an enormous undocumented voyage. Menzies tells us that Zheng He&#039;s giant junks circumnavigated the world , discovering Australia, New Zealand, the Americas, and Antarctica. His fleets supposedly left settlers and artefacts wherever they made landfall. If true this makes Zheng He and his sailors greater explorers than Columbus, Cook and Magellan combined.

Not surprisingly Menzies&#039; book appeals to Chinese pride. In 2003 Chinese President Hu Jintao, addressing a joint sitting of the Australian Parliament, repeated the claim that the Chinese had discovered and settled Australia three centuries before Captain Cook.

&quot;1421&quot; has sold over a million copies. Last year it was the second largest selling history title in Australia. Gavin Menzies has lectured at Melbourne University and is invited to attend conferences around the world.

Unfortunately, reporter Quentin McDermott points out, his book has a credibility problem. Professional historians label it naïve scholarship or worse, straight-out fabrication. Menzies writes, amongst other things, that New Zealand Maori are not Polynesians but a cross breed of Chinese concubines and Melanesians. The evidence for this, and many similar claims, is tissue thin.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Link: https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/junk-history/8953466]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a British guy, Gavin Menzies, who wrote a best-selling book saying the Chinese did get to Australia before anyone else:</p>
<blockquote><p>Menzies, an elderly Englishman with an easy charm, has written a thick best-selling volume called &#8220;1421 &#8211; The Year China Discovered the World&#8221;. It&#8217;s an alternative history of world discovery centred on Zheng He, a celebrated Chinese mariner. Zheng He was real and remarkable &#8211; but perhaps not as remarkable as Menzies claims, for he suggests that the fifteenth century eunuch admiral and his captains set out on an enormous undocumented voyage. Menzies tells us that Zheng He&#8217;s giant junks circumnavigated the world , discovering Australia, New Zealand, the Americas, and Antarctica. His fleets supposedly left settlers and artefacts wherever they made landfall. If true this makes Zheng He and his sailors greater explorers than Columbus, Cook and Magellan combined.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly Menzies&#8217; book appeals to Chinese pride. In 2003 Chinese President Hu Jintao, addressing a joint sitting of the Australian Parliament, repeated the claim that the Chinese had discovered and settled Australia three centuries before Captain Cook.</p>
<p>&#8220;1421&#8221; has sold over a million copies. Last year it was the second largest selling history title in Australia. Gavin Menzies has lectured at Melbourne University and is invited to attend conferences around the world.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, reporter Quentin McDermott points out, his book has a credibility problem. Professional historians label it naïve scholarship or worse, straight-out fabrication. Menzies writes, amongst other things, that New Zealand Maori are not Polynesians but a cross breed of Chinese concubines and Melanesians. The evidence for this, and many similar claims, is tissue thin.</p></blockquote>
<p>Link: <a href="https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/junk-history/8953466" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/junk-history/8953466</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2452981</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2452981</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If republicans are smart they would propose to offer political refugee status to the two million Hong Kong protesters who took to streets protesting against communist China, they will be facing serious political persecution and repercussions from Beijing for their involvement in this insurgence and in fact the white terror has already started as prominent businesses such as hsbc or Cathay Pacific airline are being pressured by Beijing to terminate many employees who have participated in the demonstrations.  These two million freedom loving people will be the most loyal and adamant republican voters and resistance against socialism for years to come such as the many Cuban immigrants in Florida and great for balancing out the socialism loving illegal immigrants democrats take into our country every year.  They won’t be a burden to society as most of them are well educated and fluent English speakers who will assimilate in no time.  They are mostly technically British anyway who were born and grew up under the uk rule.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If republicans are smart they would propose to offer political refugee status to the two million Hong Kong protesters who took to streets protesting against communist China, they will be facing serious political persecution and repercussions from Beijing for their involvement in this insurgence and in fact the white terror has already started as prominent businesses such as hsbc or Cathay Pacific airline are being pressured by Beijing to terminate many employees who have participated in the demonstrations.  These two million freedom loving people will be the most loyal and adamant republican voters and resistance against socialism for years to come such as the many Cuban immigrants in Florida and great for balancing out the socialism loving illegal immigrants democrats take into our country every year.  They won’t be a burden to society as most of them are well educated and fluent English speakers who will assimilate in no time.  They are mostly technically British anyway who were born and grew up under the uk rule.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Otiose		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2452962</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Otiose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2019 17:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2452962</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Historians will judge Trump favorably in this &#039;tariff&#039; squabble with China. It&#039;s not about tariffs at all. It&#039;s a conflict China has already lost and badly. Trump has succeeded in shifting the trajectory of capital investment away from China. To win Trump doesn&#039;t need an &#039;agreement&#039; the Chinese do. The Chinese want an agreement in which the US (and others) agree to channel disputes into an arbitration panel or organization that will take years to evaluate and issue a decision, all the while they steal IP and finance its deployment globally via Chinese companies (e.g. as they were well along in doing with the Micron theft). Trump to keep winning just needs the uncertainty to continue (e.g. on again off again tariffs) to bleed China of future investments. 

It is ironic that for the Chinese to win all they need do is concede to Trump everything he&#039;s asking for - follow WTO rules, stop IP theft etc - but they can&#039;t. Instead they arrest innocent businessmen in China and jail them with capital charges, a reaction that couldn&#039;t play into Trump&#039;s hands more neatly to encourage the diversion of capital investment from China to other countries less likely to arrest executives and steal technology.

A few more years of this and China will become mired permanently in the middle income trap. Perhaps they already are.

Another tragic aspect to this conflict with China is that the left gets worked up over imagined issues here while China does pretty much anything and gets little to no notice from our enlightened elite. China invaded Tibet in the 40&#039;s and continues genocide there. They enforce capital punishment by the thousands annually to feed an organ transplant industry - the execution can be scheduled for the day of operation - so convenient. And if you want to see some real Muslim oppression look no further than the Uighurs and the massive concentration camps reordering minds to order in a very real Brave New World. And the Hong Kong people are being brought to heal regardless of agreements signed. And our Hollywood virtue signalers look the other way.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historians will judge Trump favorably in this &#8216;tariff&#8217; squabble with China. It&#8217;s not about tariffs at all. It&#8217;s a conflict China has already lost and badly. Trump has succeeded in shifting the trajectory of capital investment away from China. To win Trump doesn&#8217;t need an &#8216;agreement&#8217; the Chinese do. The Chinese want an agreement in which the US (and others) agree to channel disputes into an arbitration panel or organization that will take years to evaluate and issue a decision, all the while they steal IP and finance its deployment globally via Chinese companies (e.g. as they were well along in doing with the Micron theft). Trump to keep winning just needs the uncertainty to continue (e.g. on again off again tariffs) to bleed China of future investments. </p>
<p>It is ironic that for the Chinese to win all they need do is concede to Trump everything he&#8217;s asking for &#8211; follow WTO rules, stop IP theft etc &#8211; but they can&#8217;t. Instead they arrest innocent businessmen in China and jail them with capital charges, a reaction that couldn&#8217;t play into Trump&#8217;s hands more neatly to encourage the diversion of capital investment from China to other countries less likely to arrest executives and steal technology.</p>
<p>A few more years of this and China will become mired permanently in the middle income trap. Perhaps they already are.</p>
<p>Another tragic aspect to this conflict with China is that the left gets worked up over imagined issues here while China does pretty much anything and gets little to no notice from our enlightened elite. China invaded Tibet in the 40&#8217;s and continues genocide there. They enforce capital punishment by the thousands annually to feed an organ transplant industry &#8211; the execution can be scheduled for the day of operation &#8211; so convenient. And if you want to see some real Muslim oppression look no further than the Uighurs and the massive concentration camps reordering minds to order in a very real Brave New World. And the Hong Kong people are being brought to heal regardless of agreements signed. And our Hollywood virtue signalers look the other way.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Snow on Pine		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2452943</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snow on Pine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2019 15:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2452943</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[News stories are reporting that President Trump is urging U.S. companies to leave China, to come back to the U.S., or to set up shop in other countries.

In fact, there is a law, PL95-223, The International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977, signed into law by Jimmy Carter,  which gives the President the power, in a declared National Emergency, to essentially cut off U.S. trade with a foreign nation, and, in essence, to compel U.S. companies to go along with his order.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>News stories are reporting that President Trump is urging U.S. companies to leave China, to come back to the U.S., or to set up shop in other countries.</p>
<p>In fact, there is a law, PL95-223, The International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977, signed into law by Jimmy Carter,  which gives the President the power, in a declared National Emergency, to essentially cut off U.S. trade with a foreign nation, and, in essence, to compel U.S. companies to go along with his order.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike K		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2452940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2019 15:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2452940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Think on this – Hong Kong is &#060;2700 miles from Darwin, Australia, with many islands (stopping/hopping off points) in between. And yet they never discovered Australia which was practically on their doorstep!&lt;/i&gt;

The Manchu Dynasty turned inward and stopped exploring.  Many things that had existed in China, like iron foundries, disappeared. When Europeans came in the 1700s, China had lost many cultural traditions like iron fabrication.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Think on this – Hong Kong is &lt;2700 miles from Darwin, Australia, with many islands (stopping/hopping off points) in between. And yet they never discovered Australia which was practically on their doorstep!</i></p>
<p>The Manchu Dynasty turned inward and stopped exploring.  Many things that had existed in China, like iron foundries, disappeared. When Europeans came in the 1700s, China had lost many cultural traditions like iron fabrication.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2452938</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2452938</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There wasn’t really anything special about china that caused them to be the world factory that they had become, it could have been india, Africa, mexico, south/north america or anywhere.  What propelled china to become the world factory was one reason, their four little dragons brother countries hong kong and taiwan waere going through a economical transformation moving on from being the low level manufacturing states for the west to a higher level high tech/financial/service base economy and they moved all their low level manufacturing to china.  When the economic reform didn’t result in the political reform that wise people anticipated and not only that they are now using their economic power that the west helped them built to more efficiently oppress their people and spreading their form of fascism across the globe someone needs to start taking a stand and make it stop.  I would much rather having reagan or thatcher around to deal with them (however not that thatcher was really that competent in negotiating with deng xiaoping) we have to make do with what we have, and trump was the only one flew over cuckoo’s nest or don quixote brave/foolish enough to take on that necessary but difficult challenge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There wasn’t really anything special about china that caused them to be the world factory that they had become, it could have been india, Africa, mexico, south/north america or anywhere.  What propelled china to become the world factory was one reason, their four little dragons brother countries hong kong and taiwan waere going through a economical transformation moving on from being the low level manufacturing states for the west to a higher level high tech/financial/service base economy and they moved all their low level manufacturing to china.  When the economic reform didn’t result in the political reform that wise people anticipated and not only that they are now using their economic power that the west helped them built to more efficiently oppress their people and spreading their form of fascism across the globe someone needs to start taking a stand and make it stop.  I would much rather having reagan or thatcher around to deal with them (however not that thatcher was really that competent in negotiating with deng xiaoping) we have to make do with what we have, and trump was the only one flew over cuckoo’s nest or don quixote brave/foolish enough to take on that necessary but difficult challenge.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dick Illyes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/23/lets-talk-about-china/#comment-2452931</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dick Illyes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2019 11:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89357#comment-2452931</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think this may be a turning point where Trump has given up on a deal with China and will work endlessly to grow manufacturing in the US and the Western Hemisphere.  It gives him a positive goal, forces his opponents to support a totalitarian system and oppose job growth, and will probably work.  

Add to that new opportunities within the Anglosphere after Brexit and you have a setup for interesting positive developments. Can Ireland be pried away from the EU into the growing Anglosphere?  Very likely.  

Just saw an article about non-stop flights to Australia.  With twitter it has become easy and interesting for me to follow Australian and UK happenings, probably true for many others also.  

An Anglosphere with a renewed focus on the values described so well by Hannan is what the world needs IMHO.  We may be seeing the beginning of the second act of the Rise of the West.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this may be a turning point where Trump has given up on a deal with China and will work endlessly to grow manufacturing in the US and the Western Hemisphere.  It gives him a positive goal, forces his opponents to support a totalitarian system and oppose job growth, and will probably work.  </p>
<p>Add to that new opportunities within the Anglosphere after Brexit and you have a setup for interesting positive developments. Can Ireland be pried away from the EU into the growing Anglosphere?  Very likely.  </p>
<p>Just saw an article about non-stop flights to Australia.  With twitter it has become easy and interesting for me to follow Australian and UK happenings, probably true for many others also.  </p>
<p>An Anglosphere with a renewed focus on the values described so well by Hannan is what the world needs IMHO.  We may be seeing the beginning of the second act of the Rise of the West.</p>
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