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	<title>
	Comments on: Those sleepy prison guards	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 14:59:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Ilion		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450996</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ilion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 14:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450996</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;&lt;i&gt;Then there’s the “nor” problem.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Either ... or ....

Neither ... nor ...

;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>Then there’s the “nor” problem.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Either &#8230; or &#8230;.</p>
<p>Neither &#8230; nor &#8230;</p>
<p>😉</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450926</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450926</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The whole Conspiracy land and anti Conspiracy Land forces here and elsewhere are stuck in what I call a quagmire of disinformation, Russian NKVD style.

The whole &quot;conspiracy theory&quot; thing was originally started by the CIA to cover up some conspiracies and secret covert operations of theirs. Because they didn&#039;t want prosecutors or Congress critters to look at the evidence, they counter claimed that the whistle blowers were talking about a &quot;huge conspiracy&quot; that could not exist, like Iran Contra weapons or Benghazi style &quot;stand down&quot; orders. They CANNOT EXIST, SO SHUT UP CRAZY BOY GIRLS.

Basically it worked with the help of the fake news media.

But why would conspiracy theories have to be true or false, for there to be a crime or evil sh going on? That&#039;s the disinformation and red herring. It doesn&#039;t matter if there is a conspiracy or not or whether the theory is right or not.

What matters is who the f is fking kids and selling sex slaves, right? Isn&#039;t that what matters, not how big a &quot;conspiracy&quot; there is? You have to prove the crime first before you can attach that conspiracy charge. How you can be a conspirator to a crime that does not exist or hasn&#039;t been proven?

Can you conspire with your neighbor to clean up the local dog sh?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole Conspiracy land and anti Conspiracy Land forces here and elsewhere are stuck in what I call a quagmire of disinformation, Russian NKVD style.</p>
<p>The whole &#8220;conspiracy theory&#8221; thing was originally started by the CIA to cover up some conspiracies and secret covert operations of theirs. Because they didn&#8217;t want prosecutors or Congress critters to look at the evidence, they counter claimed that the whistle blowers were talking about a &#8220;huge conspiracy&#8221; that could not exist, like Iran Contra weapons or Benghazi style &#8220;stand down&#8221; orders. They CANNOT EXIST, SO SHUT UP CRAZY BOY GIRLS.</p>
<p>Basically it worked with the help of the fake news media.</p>
<p>But why would conspiracy theories have to be true or false, for there to be a crime or evil sh going on? That&#8217;s the disinformation and red herring. It doesn&#8217;t matter if there is a conspiracy or not or whether the theory is right or not.</p>
<p>What matters is who the f is fking kids and selling sex slaves, right? Isn&#8217;t that what matters, not how big a &#8220;conspiracy&#8221; there is? You have to prove the crime first before you can attach that conspiracy charge. How you can be a conspirator to a crime that does not exist or hasn&#8217;t been proven?</p>
<p>Can you conspire with your neighbor to clean up the local dog sh?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450925</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450925</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s an accident people died in Ruby Ridge. It was Occam&#039;s Razor bureaucratic incompetence, an accidental tragedy, that happened in Waco 1, Waco 2, the IRS, Fast and Furious, and you know, everything else under the sun.

Nothing to see here, peons, move on or the Friendly Park Rangers will smash your face in, veterans on public land.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an accident people died in Ruby Ridge. It was Occam&#8217;s Razor bureaucratic incompetence, an accidental tragedy, that happened in Waco 1, Waco 2, the IRS, Fast and Furious, and you know, everything else under the sun.</p>
<p>Nothing to see here, peons, move on or the Friendly Park Rangers will smash your face in, veterans on public land.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450924</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450924</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Also, judges apparently can use &quot;that&#039;s just conspiracy defense&quot; to counter a prosecution&#039;s conspiracy charge ,but I don&#039;t think that works. A conspiracy theory is in itself not proven or false. The lawyers don&#039;t need evidence for a conspiracy theory, what they need is the charge itself to stick.

All you need is the charge to stick under reasonable behavior. What people mean by &quot;conspiracy theories are false&quot; or unbelievable, is that there is nothing evil or sinful or criminal going on.

It&#039;s just an accident the Titanic hit something or FDR=pearl Harbor, or Gulf of Tonkin, etc.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, judges apparently can use &#8220;that&#8217;s just conspiracy defense&#8221; to counter a prosecution&#8217;s conspiracy charge ,but I don&#8217;t think that works. A conspiracy theory is in itself not proven or false. The lawyers don&#8217;t need evidence for a conspiracy theory, what they need is the charge itself to stick.</p>
<p>All you need is the charge to stick under reasonable behavior. What people mean by &#8220;conspiracy theories are false&#8221; or unbelievable, is that there is nothing evil or sinful or criminal going on.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just an accident the Titanic hit something or FDR=pearl Harbor, or Gulf of Tonkin, etc.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450923</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450923</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Most AMericans know conspiracies don&#039;t exist. Except the lawyers who use conspiracies to charge crims with.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most AMericans know conspiracies don&#8217;t exist. Except the lawyers who use conspiracies to charge crims with.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450915</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450915</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If something has been done long enough against protocol and requirements without serious blowback that it becomes SOP, the idea that maybe reverting to the required would be a good idea in a given case simply doesn&#039;t occur.
Following regulations or requirements tends to shift blame. Doing as you&#039;re ordered isn&#039;t a get out of jail free card, but it does implicate others--the ones who arranged for the requirements--who have fo justify it to clear themselves.
It&#039;s difficult to be the originator of a rule and sanction somebody for following it, or passing on a rule and sanctioning someone for following it.  Or, difficult if there&#039;s a third party ruling on it.
All of that said, any sentient being should be able to take steps to cover his butt if the steps aren&#039;t overly difficult.
What, and I mean this literally, does it cost in terms of time, physical exertion, physical menace from sleepy guards, other duties delayed, to make sure the guards are awake?
what was so important that checking a couple of extra times couldn&#039;t fit in?

On the other hand,  the actual procedures, formal or informal, had worked for forty years.  What about Epstein required something more than that which had served so well?  What would occur to the guards or to supervision?

I might feature somebody thinking that, since an assorted bunch of non-standard folks had passed through the facility for decades and only one had managed, what was Epstein going to do that was better than any and all of his predecessors?  Somebody would profit by his death?  Seen that before, check.  Had great, insupportable remorse....well, maybe.  Or maybe not, but check.Mentally ill--arent&#039; they all, check.  Mobbed up?  Check.

Maybe even sloppy, sleepy, and overworked, they were more than good enough.  Really good, in fact.  Only one suicide in forty years.  Beat that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If something has been done long enough against protocol and requirements without serious blowback that it becomes SOP, the idea that maybe reverting to the required would be a good idea in a given case simply doesn&#8217;t occur.<br />
Following regulations or requirements tends to shift blame. Doing as you&#8217;re ordered isn&#8217;t a get out of jail free card, but it does implicate others&#8211;the ones who arranged for the requirements&#8211;who have fo justify it to clear themselves.<br />
It&#8217;s difficult to be the originator of a rule and sanction somebody for following it, or passing on a rule and sanctioning someone for following it.  Or, difficult if there&#8217;s a third party ruling on it.<br />
All of that said, any sentient being should be able to take steps to cover his butt if the steps aren&#8217;t overly difficult.<br />
What, and I mean this literally, does it cost in terms of time, physical exertion, physical menace from sleepy guards, other duties delayed, to make sure the guards are awake?<br />
what was so important that checking a couple of extra times couldn&#8217;t fit in?</p>
<p>On the other hand,  the actual procedures, formal or informal, had worked for forty years.  What about Epstein required something more than that which had served so well?  What would occur to the guards or to supervision?</p>
<p>I might feature somebody thinking that, since an assorted bunch of non-standard folks had passed through the facility for decades and only one had managed, what was Epstein going to do that was better than any and all of his predecessors?  Somebody would profit by his death?  Seen that before, check.  Had great, insupportable remorse&#8230;.well, maybe.  Or maybe not, but check.Mentally ill&#8211;arent&#8217; they all, check.  Mobbed up?  Check.</p>
<p>Maybe even sloppy, sleepy, and overworked, they were more than good enough.  Really good, in fact.  Only one suicide in forty years.  Beat that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450877</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 04:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450877</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;...so many reasons &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; to “leave themselves open to huge criticism.”&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m so bad with negatives and double-negatives. Then there&#039;s the &quot;nor&quot; problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;so many reasons <b>not</b> to “leave themselves open to huge criticism.”</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m so bad with negatives and double-negatives. Then there&#8217;s the &#8220;nor&#8221; problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 03:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo: Ah. But so many people, so high up, with so many reasons to &quot;leave themselves open to huge criticism.&quot;

How many people have to screw up before that convenient Hanlon adverb &quot;adequately&quot; begins to become a problem?

Is there a limit?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo: Ah. But so many people, so high up, with so many reasons to &#8220;leave themselves open to huge criticism.&#8221;</p>
<p>How many people have to screw up before that convenient Hanlon adverb &#8220;adequately&#8221; begins to become a problem?</p>
<p>Is there a limit?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ilion		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450870</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ilion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 03:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450870</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Huxley, yep.  Bureaucrats serve the interests of their bureaucracy (*) ... and they do that by protecting first their own pension-interest, and second, if needs must, the pension-interest of their superiors (**).

There is too much about what we have been told that just doesn&#039;t cohere.  And on top of that, we *know* not only that the politicians lie to us, but that the bureaucrats lie to both the politicians and to us.

(*) i.e. the permanent government, the core of the swamp and of the Deep State

(**) whoever ends up being the fall guy, it&#039;s almost always the case that the true blame lies at a higher level.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huxley, yep.  Bureaucrats serve the interests of their bureaucracy (*) &#8230; and they do that by protecting first their own pension-interest, and second, if needs must, the pension-interest of their superiors (**).</p>
<p>There is too much about what we have been told that just doesn&#8217;t cohere.  And on top of that, we *know* not only that the politicians lie to us, but that the bureaucrats lie to both the politicians and to us.</p>
<p>(*) i.e. the permanent government, the core of the swamp and of the Deep State</p>
<p>(**) whoever ends up being the fall guy, it&#8217;s almost always the case that the true blame lies at a higher level.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/14/those-sleepy-prison-guards/#comment-2450868</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2019 03:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=89140#comment-2450868</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[huxley:

And yet sometimes they manage to screw up nevertheless, and leave themselves open to huge criticism when it&#039;s the last thing they wanted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huxley:</p>
<p>And yet sometimes they manage to screw up nevertheless, and leave themselves open to huge criticism when it&#8217;s the last thing they wanted.</p>
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