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	Comments on: On leaving the circle dance	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: The Circle Dance		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2452176</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Circle Dance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2019 13:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2452176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] insightful piece about the temptation to hold hands in a circle and dance in a ring. It&#039;s symbolic of something else, of course: the totalitarian impulse to imagine everyone gets [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] insightful piece about the temptation to hold hands in a circle and dance in a ring. It&#039;s symbolic of something else, of course: the totalitarian impulse to imagine everyone gets [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: True but Forbidden 36: No Old Hippies and No New Hippies Reading Circles Either - American Digest		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447730</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[True but Forbidden 36: No Old Hippies and No New Hippies Reading Circles Either - American Digest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2019 01:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447730</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] On leaving the circle dance –    Milan Kundera’s novel The Book of Laughter and Forgetting, which he wrote in the late 1970s: [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] On leaving the circle dance –    Milan Kundera’s novel The Book of Laughter and Forgetting, which he wrote in the late 1970s: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: DNW		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447495</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DNW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Aug 2019 16:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447495</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Circle dancing is magic. It speaks to us through the millennia from the depths of human memory. Madame Raphael had cut the picture out of the magazine and would stare at it and dream. She too longed to dance in a ring. All her life she had looked for a group of people she could hold hands with and dance with in a ring.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What kind of spell this magic casts, remains invisible to me.

As I mentioned before, I cannot understand this. It makes no sense to me in terms of being or becoming an edified or virtuous man (human), and it leaves me emotionally stone cold, if not vaguely contemptuous.

Perhaps I am an outlier. Maybe, even descended from outliers in this regard; that is, with respect to what appears on the surface to be impulses felt by the bulk of humanity. 

Nonetheless, if my views, preferences, and lack of desire to &quot;circle dance&quot; place me outside the magic circle, I am convinced that there are many, many, other Americans, most of whom are probably &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; completely descended of some stubborn and winnowed Colonial settler stock, and yet, who still find themselves in exactly the same place: outside with no desire to enter. And that would include me.

So although natural predispositions may have a role, I don&#039;t attribute the sensibility to that.

In fact, anyone who has ever attended a high-school pep rally, and had it suddenly strike them that those around them were acting like mindless chimps, and that their behavior was a bit unbecoming and even unAmerican - in some historical model sense -  probably stands somewhat outside the circle too. 

On the other hand, maybe I should just never have seen Planet of the Apes when I was a boy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Circle dancing is magic. It speaks to us through the millennia from the depths of human memory. Madame Raphael had cut the picture out of the magazine and would stare at it and dream. She too longed to dance in a ring. All her life she had looked for a group of people she could hold hands with and dance with in a ring.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>What kind of spell this magic casts, remains invisible to me.</p>
<p>As I mentioned before, I cannot understand this. It makes no sense to me in terms of being or becoming an edified or virtuous man (human), and it leaves me emotionally stone cold, if not vaguely contemptuous.</p>
<p>Perhaps I am an outlier. Maybe, even descended from outliers in this regard; that is, with respect to what appears on the surface to be impulses felt by the bulk of humanity. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, if my views, preferences, and lack of desire to &#8220;circle dance&#8221; place me outside the magic circle, I am convinced that there are many, many, other Americans, most of whom are probably <b>not</b> completely descended of some stubborn and winnowed Colonial settler stock, and yet, who still find themselves in exactly the same place: outside with no desire to enter. And that would include me.</p>
<p>So although natural predispositions may have a role, I don&#8217;t attribute the sensibility to that.</p>
<p>In fact, anyone who has ever attended a high-school pep rally, and had it suddenly strike them that those around them were acting like mindless chimps, and that their behavior was a bit unbecoming and even unAmerican &#8211; in some historical model sense &#8211;  probably stands somewhat outside the circle too. </p>
<p>On the other hand, maybe I should just never have seen Planet of the Apes when I was a boy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Liberty Wolf		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447464</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liberty Wolf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Aug 2019 03:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447464</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One of the hardest things I&#039;ve ever done.  It makes me a stranger to my old social circles culturally and I&#039;m not sure what to do about that.  I kept most friends, though I lost a notable few.  But I can&#039;t talk about politics much with the ones who stuck around, unless they were made after the change.  If I do, I have to be careful so they don&#039;t get what appears to me, to be very angry very quickly.  I feel as though I must be constantly patient, always making sure my left wing friends can express most of their opinions, while I keep mine in check.  I won&#039;t explode at their opinions, but I worry and have seen them explode at mine. I mean, get very angry.  This is worse than ever now with Trump.  I&#039;ve become a Trump supporter and that&#039;s something unspeakable.  I am afraid now I could lose books deals and readings.  I am not kidding.  I&#039;m a writer and have a new book of poems out and there&#039;s a risk it won&#039;t be reviewed or will be pulled if people know my politics (Trump).  It has happened to people.   It&#039;s so crazy, this whole thing, I mean it&#039;s not like I support anything out of what is mainstream.  This guy is the president.  Meanwhile my friends insult, taunt and call him names daily, when I speak to them.  Well, not all of them but many.  When they find out I voted for him they still do this, though not quite as much.  If they find out I voted for him.  Again, it is easier to say I am not a Dem anymore or a leftist than to say I am actually a Trump supporter.  

Now, there are exceptions and some people who are not like that.  But it is difficult, each day when in public.  I left the Bay Area and I think it&#039;s better out here in Colorado, in the Denver area, but it is still a blue area. 

I am gaining new friends over time.  Mostly not people I know in person, but still.  

Yes, I&#039;m complaining and whining a bit, but yes, it is not easy!  Sometimes that needs to be done. 

This is funny: I was told that since I am a &quot;white man&quot; that I don&#039;t know how terrible Trump is and how racist.  This from a white woman... who I had just told that I supported Trump, after meeting her.  I had also told her my father is hispanic and my mother Native, but I am the lightest person in the family and people think I am white so... but still, why should it matter?  I told her since I let my guard down and she seemed moderate enough.  So I became the evil white man very quickly.  Truly strange!  

That&#039;s the thing, I can&#039;t let my guard down too much.  It may lead to difficult consequences.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the hardest things I&#8217;ve ever done.  It makes me a stranger to my old social circles culturally and I&#8217;m not sure what to do about that.  I kept most friends, though I lost a notable few.  But I can&#8217;t talk about politics much with the ones who stuck around, unless they were made after the change.  If I do, I have to be careful so they don&#8217;t get what appears to me, to be very angry very quickly.  I feel as though I must be constantly patient, always making sure my left wing friends can express most of their opinions, while I keep mine in check.  I won&#8217;t explode at their opinions, but I worry and have seen them explode at mine. I mean, get very angry.  This is worse than ever now with Trump.  I&#8217;ve become a Trump supporter and that&#8217;s something unspeakable.  I am afraid now I could lose books deals and readings.  I am not kidding.  I&#8217;m a writer and have a new book of poems out and there&#8217;s a risk it won&#8217;t be reviewed or will be pulled if people know my politics (Trump).  It has happened to people.   It&#8217;s so crazy, this whole thing, I mean it&#8217;s not like I support anything out of what is mainstream.  This guy is the president.  Meanwhile my friends insult, taunt and call him names daily, when I speak to them.  Well, not all of them but many.  When they find out I voted for him they still do this, though not quite as much.  If they find out I voted for him.  Again, it is easier to say I am not a Dem anymore or a leftist than to say I am actually a Trump supporter.  </p>
<p>Now, there are exceptions and some people who are not like that.  But it is difficult, each day when in public.  I left the Bay Area and I think it&#8217;s better out here in Colorado, in the Denver area, but it is still a blue area. </p>
<p>I am gaining new friends over time.  Mostly not people I know in person, but still.  </p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;m complaining and whining a bit, but yes, it is not easy!  Sometimes that needs to be done. </p>
<p>This is funny: I was told that since I am a &#8220;white man&#8221; that I don&#8217;t know how terrible Trump is and how racist.  This from a white woman&#8230; who I had just told that I supported Trump, after meeting her.  I had also told her my father is hispanic and my mother Native, but I am the lightest person in the family and people think I am white so&#8230; but still, why should it matter?  I told her since I let my guard down and she seemed moderate enough.  So I became the evil white man very quickly.  Truly strange!  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the thing, I can&#8217;t let my guard down too much.  It may lead to difficult consequences.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447424</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 17:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447424</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Karen,

California has such a lack of governance so it all depends on how you apply the term government.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karen,</p>
<p>California has such a lack of governance so it all depends on how you apply the term government.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karen		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447423</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 17:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447423</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Other ways to differentiate generally between conservatism and lib/progressivism, IMO:

Conservative values: religion, family, local community, reason and facts, stability and survival of systems, long-term policy-based solutions, reasonable limitations. Realistic about human nature and solutions.
Liberal/progressive values: government, interest groups, animals/nature, emotion, addressing individuals&#039; perceived needs and suffering, immediate response/action, some steamroller logic that may lack limitation . Idealistic about human nature and solutions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other ways to differentiate generally between conservatism and lib/progressivism, IMO:</p>
<p>Conservative values: religion, family, local community, reason and facts, stability and survival of systems, long-term policy-based solutions, reasonable limitations. Realistic about human nature and solutions.<br />
Liberal/progressive values: government, interest groups, animals/nature, emotion, addressing individuals&#8217; perceived needs and suffering, immediate response/action, some steamroller logic that may lack limitation . Idealistic about human nature and solutions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447421</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 16:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447421</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike K wrote, &quot;I sent a copy of Peterson’s book to my Bernie bro daughter, expecting her to throw it away. Instead, she called me to tell me how much she loved it. Since then, she has gotten married and is due to have her first baby this weekend.&quot;

Congratulations !!! The most bestest thing!!!

This is why we have to continue trying to educate. The 50/50 will move to 60/40 (towards liberalism) because of academics and hollywood celebrities if we do not fight for our future and continue to change minds. It is an ever changing world with those who have become WOKE to conservatism dying off each year and the young needing to be educated. Turning Point USA is a great example of what we need even if they don&#039;t do everything correct. Prager U is another great example. 

Jordan Peterson might slip and ask Kavanaug to resign but by and large he is helping our cause with a higher order and level of thinking showing people that expression and communication is essential to the logos and we cannot ban speech simply because we disagree with it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike K wrote, &#8220;I sent a copy of Peterson’s book to my Bernie bro daughter, expecting her to throw it away. Instead, she called me to tell me how much she loved it. Since then, she has gotten married and is due to have her first baby this weekend.&#8221;</p>
<p>Congratulations !!! The most bestest thing!!!</p>
<p>This is why we have to continue trying to educate. The 50/50 will move to 60/40 (towards liberalism) because of academics and hollywood celebrities if we do not fight for our future and continue to change minds. It is an ever changing world with those who have become WOKE to conservatism dying off each year and the young needing to be educated. Turning Point USA is a great example of what we need even if they don&#8217;t do everything correct. Prager U is another great example. </p>
<p>Jordan Peterson might slip and ask Kavanaug to resign but by and large he is helping our cause with a higher order and level of thinking showing people that expression and communication is essential to the logos and we cannot ban speech simply because we disagree with it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447420</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 16:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447420</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[physicsguy wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;A Right is deep down somewhat selfish in that they tend to want what is best for themselves and their immediate loved ones. They generally don’t seek to change others provided said others do not have a direct affect on them. What this means is that not only can they ‘shop around’ for the best ideas that best suit them, they are also very content to allow others to be ‘different’ provided they don’t actively cause trouble. Conservatives – paradoxically from the name – are usually much more broad minded when it comes to ideas and also, because they don’t usually see others are direct threats, more likely to embrace them and provide help when they truly need it. Go to a true community group and play spot the leftie.

Left types think differently. They are about being Fair. They believe that basically everything would be better if only THEY were in charge because the world is selfish and unfair.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I see things differently. I think of EVERYONE. I do not think it is wise for anyone, daughters, family, country to have open borders because of the resulting human trafficking and evil that will persist. That isn&#039;t fair nor righteous. A leftist simply did not do the due diligence required to see that many of the kids are not even their own kids. Or the Honduran mother gave $6,000 to a coyote (which went to drugs) and she split up her family to the shock and horror of the father and other children in the family. It wasn&#039;t good for the U.S., the Hondurans, and my family to have Time magazine advocate for not having a process and vetting people and having them come through ports of entry. Same thing on ALL issues. It isn&#039;t good to have 8-12 year old Congolese children mine for rare earth materials so that we can all virtue signal in our Prius believing we are saving the planet. 

None of liberalism is good for everyone. None. It isn&#039;t fair, moral or just.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>physicsguy wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>A Right is deep down somewhat selfish in that they tend to want what is best for themselves and their immediate loved ones. They generally don’t seek to change others provided said others do not have a direct affect on them. What this means is that not only can they ‘shop around’ for the best ideas that best suit them, they are also very content to allow others to be ‘different’ provided they don’t actively cause trouble. Conservatives – paradoxically from the name – are usually much more broad minded when it comes to ideas and also, because they don’t usually see others are direct threats, more likely to embrace them and provide help when they truly need it. Go to a true community group and play spot the leftie.</p>
<p>Left types think differently. They are about being Fair. They believe that basically everything would be better if only THEY were in charge because the world is selfish and unfair.</p></blockquote>
<p>I see things differently. I think of EVERYONE. I do not think it is wise for anyone, daughters, family, country to have open borders because of the resulting human trafficking and evil that will persist. That isn&#8217;t fair nor righteous. A leftist simply did not do the due diligence required to see that many of the kids are not even their own kids. Or the Honduran mother gave $6,000 to a coyote (which went to drugs) and she split up her family to the shock and horror of the father and other children in the family. It wasn&#8217;t good for the U.S., the Hondurans, and my family to have Time magazine advocate for not having a process and vetting people and having them come through ports of entry. Same thing on ALL issues. It isn&#8217;t good to have 8-12 year old Congolese children mine for rare earth materials so that we can all virtue signal in our Prius believing we are saving the planet. </p>
<p>None of liberalism is good for everyone. None. It isn&#8217;t fair, moral or just.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike K		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447419</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 16:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447419</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;You see the Cathy Young’s of the world who has completely submitted to her feminist religion not doing the due diligence required to LISTEN to Jordan Peterson provide more input as to WHY women might be paid less on a macro level given a multi-varied analysis.&lt;/i&gt;

I sent a copy of Peterson&#039;s book to my Bernie bro daughter, expecting her to throw it away. Instead, she called me to tell me how much she loved it. Since then, she has gotten married and is due to have her first baby this weekend.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You see the Cathy Young’s of the world who has completely submitted to her feminist religion not doing the due diligence required to LISTEN to Jordan Peterson provide more input as to WHY women might be paid less on a macro level given a multi-varied analysis.</i></p>
<p>I sent a copy of Peterson&#8217;s book to my Bernie bro daughter, expecting her to throw it away. Instead, she called me to tell me how much she loved it. Since then, she has gotten married and is due to have her first baby this weekend.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/08/02/on-leaving-the-circle-dance/#comment-2447418</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 16:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=88679#comment-2447418</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DNAXY wrote: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Would it be better to be conservative and want to protect what we have created? Or liberal and try to change our terrible situation? Which way were we? Is this why we made it?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It will always depend on the situation on the ground. Two examples: 
People shifted towards conservatives when presented with the FACTS after 9/11. 

People shifted towards conservative when presented with the disease of Ebola. 

You have to always take in more facts. Leaders will always listen to suboordinates in every day life to take in information because if they do not the leaders will become irrelevant. Like Pelosi. Pelosi is not living in the real world, becoming irrelavant in her own party and does not see the crisis in front of her. Her party is fractured deeply.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DNAXY wrote: </p>
<blockquote><p>Would it be better to be conservative and want to protect what we have created? Or liberal and try to change our terrible situation? Which way were we? Is this why we made it?</p></blockquote>
<p>It will always depend on the situation on the ground. Two examples:<br />
People shifted towards conservatives when presented with the FACTS after 9/11. </p>
<p>People shifted towards conservative when presented with the disease of Ebola. </p>
<p>You have to always take in more facts. Leaders will always listen to suboordinates in every day life to take in information because if they do not the leaders will become irrelevant. Like Pelosi. Pelosi is not living in the real world, becoming irrelavant in her own party and does not see the crisis in front of her. Her party is fractured deeply.</p>
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