Romeo Bravo: ‘More US Army Air Force men died bombing Germany than all US Marine deaths and US Navy deaths in the Pacific.”

My uncle was a bombardier/navigator on a B-17. He died on his 20th mission. Another man from our village was B-24 pilot that survived 25 missions – a couple over the Ploesti oil fields, described as a target where the flak was so dense you could “walk on it.” Another uncle was a waist gunner in a B-17. He survived 25 missions and was loathe to talk about his service. One day, when it was cold, he did tell me it reminded him of his days as a B-17 gunner. The B-17s were not insulated or heated and flew as high as they could – 18,00 to 25,00 feet. Numbing cold was an ever present companion on those long missions. They had heavy weight clothes to help them, but they had to take off their gloves to man their guns. Frostbite was also their enemy.

As both Oldflyer and Romeo Bravo have pointed out, the Air War over Europe was deadly and deadly serious.

If you haven’t read it already, please read my 2-part post on Cronkite and Vietnam reporting.

I was younger than JJ; but, the atmosphere at home is forever etched. I don’t know what the older folks really thought during the early days because they would certainly not burden a kid with their concerns. As for my peers, we never doubted. Our fathers, brothers, cousins, neighbors were fighting, and they would not lose.

It is not surprising that Soviet propaganda extols the nation’s sacrifices and exploits in WWII. Certainly, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, with whom they had a friendhip pact took the rest of the world, as well as the Soviets, by surprise. At that point, there was no reason for anyone to aid Russia, and good reason to let the two tyrannical regimes devour each other. But, to assert that they stood alone against the German war machine throughout much of the war is far from true. The Soviet Union was initially spared in large measure by the brutal winter of ’41-’42, and Hitler’s maniac intransigence. Then its largely decimated war fighting capability was re-built on the shoulders of American industry, and the significant sacrifices made to deliver the supplies to Russia (google “Murmansk run). The effort was huge and largely forgotten. A family friend, a railroad engineer, spent his Army service running trains through Iran from Persian Gulf ports to the southern border of Russia. Meanwhile, on various fronts the German war machine was distracted. In the intervening years before the Normandy invasion, Germany lost access to mid-eastern oil because of the British and American African campaign. German forces were spread from Greece, through North Africa to Sicily, Italy and Southern France to defend the borders of the Thousand Year Reich.

Stalin, ignoring all that was in progress, continued to demand a “second front in Europe”. But, people who uncritically accept his myth that the USSR stood alone, simply ignore the facts. By 1943, the North African campaign had been fought and won; the Sicilian campaign fought and won; and the invasion of Italy proper had begun.

By 1945, the Soviet Red Army was a massive force; but, they faced an enemy that had been engaged on many different fronts for years, and was a shell of its former self.

Just to note one point of personal interest that was introduced by RomeoBravo. By the time Russia invaded, the bombing campaign against Germany’s industrial heartland had reached epic proportions. My personal hero, an older cousin, was part of the U.S. 8th Air Force, so I have always been fascinated by their history. They endured unimaginable losses during this historic and unprecedented campaign.

I don’t believe the Soviets participated in this level of activity as well.

When fighting for good, imperfect mostly good folk, was noble. The failures to tell the truth about the very different war in Vietnam, seems to have made so many patriots from WW II turn against America, then against the Republicans who continued supporting patriotism. Cronkite among those who turned Left most strongly.

Things were not going well in 1942 and I asked my grandfather if it was possible we could lose the war. I’ll never forget what he told me. Paraphrasing here, but he said that we were just holding our own while our country was building the ships, planes, tanks, jeeps, and artillery our boys needed to get on the offensive. He said that once our boys had the tools they needed they would win because our boys were better soldiers than the Germans and Japanese. They were better soldiers because they knew what they were fighting for – freedom. And that our boys knew how to take the initiative. If the lieutenant went down, the sergeant would step up and take his place. And the corporal would step up if the sergeant went down, and the private would do the same if the corporal went down. He said that free men know how to think for themselves and take the initiative. That sure worked out on D-Day. Many soldiers went down, but others kept going and looking for ways to get off the beach. Small units of men taking the initiative found the weak spots and took the high ground. Free men thinking for themselves with an objective in mind. My grandfather was a wise man.

Our country was different then. We were united. We had belief in our country and what it stood for. We weren’t as wealthy as a country and life wasn’t as easy it is today. Maybe that’s part of our problem.

Then, when Hitler double-crossed Stalin and invaded the USSR, Stalin was caught by surprise and came close to defeat in 1941, at least according to Georgy Zhukov, one of the top Soviet commanders. The interview where Zhukov admitted that was almost lost to history as the Soviet authorities destroyed all copies, save one which emerged in 2010.

America’s Lend-Lease contributions to the USSR during the war were substantial and no doubt helped the USSR, though it remains controversial how key a part Lend-Lease played. I err on the side of “a very important part.”

And if there were no D-Day, no second front for Hitler to worry about, the Soviets might have been able to defend their homeland, but I doubt they would have been able to drive to Berlin. Hence, Stalin’s constant insistence FDR and Churchill open that front, i.e. D-Day.

unfortunately both are true. Half the forces the invaders faced were foreign volunteers , invalids wounded on the Easter Front and old men. Truthfully our efforts saved Western Europe from the Soviets.
And if we want to credit lend-lease for enabling the Soviet Victory , then we have to credit the soviets for pushing us back from the Yalu river , and losing in Nam. Moreover we then get the blame for Stalin taking over Eastern Europe. a smart move would have been to curtail lend-lease after Normandy.
Now its true that the Soviets were the true victors -BUT- had FDR and Ike ignored DeGaulle and not wasted precious time with his “liberating” French cities and wasted resources on Monty’s “Market Garden” and fully supplied Patton, the 3rd army would have taken Berlin, Prague and some of the Balkans before Zukov. Then we could have truly claimed victory.