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	<title>
	Comments on: Let&#8217;s hear it for Norman Podhoretz, the original neocon	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431557</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431557</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Wasn’t saying they don’t celebrate Thanksgiving. Not a “high holy day technically” is what I said.&lt;/i&gt;

Not as a rule.  Pretty sure it&#039;s on the liturgical calendar of the Episcopal Church, or was prior to 1979.  

See Anthony Esolen on the distinction between &#039;popular culture&#039; and &#039;mass entertainment&#039;.  Esolen refers to music: &#039;popular music&#039; is that played by people in their own homes on their own instruments&#039;.  It isn&#039;t a consumer product.  By the same token, you have common celebrations in this country which are not artifacts of public policy or institutional life (though they can be recognized in law and injured by consumer culture): Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, 4th of July, New Year&#039;s, and Halloween. Some have a religious dimension, some do not. Those are our only real holidays (and they don&#039;t all entail time off).  The rest are concessions to public employee unions and Coretta Scott King.  Fifty years ago, Memorial Day was of significance; not anymore.  Others are or were of subcultural importance: St. Joseph&#039;s Day (for Italians), Yom Kippur / Rosh Hoshannah, Passover, 6th of January (for Orthodox Christians).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wasn’t saying they don’t celebrate Thanksgiving. Not a “high holy day technically” is what I said.</i></p>
<p>Not as a rule.  Pretty sure it&#8217;s on the liturgical calendar of the Episcopal Church, or was prior to 1979.  </p>
<p>See Anthony Esolen on the distinction between &#8216;popular culture&#8217; and &#8216;mass entertainment&#8217;.  Esolen refers to music: &#8216;popular music&#8217; is that played by people in their own homes on their own instruments&#8217;.  It isn&#8217;t a consumer product.  By the same token, you have common celebrations in this country which are not artifacts of public policy or institutional life (though they can be recognized in law and injured by consumer culture): Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, 4th of July, New Year&#8217;s, and Halloween. Some have a religious dimension, some do not. Those are our only real holidays (and they don&#8217;t all entail time off).  The rest are concessions to public employee unions and Coretta Scott King.  Fifty years ago, Memorial Day was of significance; not anymore.  Others are or were of subcultural importance: St. Joseph&#8217;s Day (for Italians), Yom Kippur / Rosh Hoshannah, Passover, 6th of January (for Orthodox Christians).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431549</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431549</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What Podhoretz (Sr.) said, a thousand times over. 

(Alas, I feel that it&#039;s most unfortunate that his wise words even needs to be said....)

= = = = = 
Regarding Jews and Thanksgiving, MOST American Jews---of all &quot;streams&quot;---celebrate this wonderful holiday. Some American Jews do not celebrate it. (I&#039;ll go out on a limb and say that this would include the ultra-orthodox---and perhaps SOME of the modern orthodox---as well as the extreme Leftists; for the ultra-orthodox, etc., the holiday of Sukkot (AKA Succos) is the Biblically-mandated Thanksgiving holiday, while for the Leftist fringe, I&#039;m not sure they actually celebrate America in any form, though I could be wrong on that, certainly....)

Regarding the Holiday of Pesach (&quot;Pesach&quot; meaning the &quot;passing over&quot;---in this case, the homes of the Israelites in Egypt in the event of the killing of the Firstborn---and which is also referred to as the &quot;Holiday of Spring&quot;, &quot;Holiday of Freedom&quot;, &quot;Holiday of Matza&quot;): though it is NOT---as mentioned above--- a &quot;High Holiday&quot;, it IS, along with Sukkot (holiday of Booths) and Shavu&#039;ot (holiday of Weeks, AKA Pentecost) one of the three pilgrimage holidays, which in fact makes it a MAJOR holiday.....

Happy Passover, Happy Easter---and Happy, well, Spring---to all of you!...and thanks, once again, to NEO for the blog and the opportunities it offers!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Podhoretz (Sr.) said, a thousand times over. </p>
<p>(Alas, I feel that it&#8217;s most unfortunate that his wise words even needs to be said&#8230;.)</p>
<p>= = = = =<br />
Regarding Jews and Thanksgiving, MOST American Jews&#8212;of all &#8220;streams&#8221;&#8212;celebrate this wonderful holiday. Some American Jews do not celebrate it. (I&#8217;ll go out on a limb and say that this would include the ultra-orthodox&#8212;and perhaps SOME of the modern orthodox&#8212;as well as the extreme Leftists; for the ultra-orthodox, etc., the holiday of Sukkot (AKA Succos) is the Biblically-mandated Thanksgiving holiday, while for the Leftist fringe, I&#8217;m not sure they actually celebrate America in any form, though I could be wrong on that, certainly&#8230;.)</p>
<p>Regarding the Holiday of Pesach (&#8220;Pesach&#8221; meaning the &#8220;passing over&#8221;&#8212;in this case, the homes of the Israelites in Egypt in the event of the killing of the Firstborn&#8212;and which is also referred to as the &#8220;Holiday of Spring&#8221;, &#8220;Holiday of Freedom&#8221;, &#8220;Holiday of Matza&#8221;): though it is NOT&#8212;as mentioned above&#8212; a &#8220;High Holiday&#8221;, it IS, along with Sukkot (holiday of Booths) and Shavu&#8217;ot (holiday of Weeks, AKA Pentecost) one of the three pilgrimage holidays, which in fact makes it a MAJOR holiday&#8230;..</p>
<p>Happy Passover, Happy Easter&#8212;and Happy, well, Spring&#8212;to all of you!&#8230;and thanks, once again, to NEO for the blog and the opportunities it offers!!</p>
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		By: Anti- Anti-Trump, also Anti- Anti-Christian, yet also Anti-PC &#8211; Tom Grey &#8211; Families, Freedom, Responsibility		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431391</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anti- Anti-Trump, also Anti- Anti-Christian, yet also Anti-PC &#8211; Tom Grey &#8211; Families, Freedom, Responsibility]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 18:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431391</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Neo posts about Norman Podhoretz [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Neo posts about Norman Podhoretz [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Grey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Grey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 17:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo, when you say: &lt;i&gt;Thanksgiving isn’t a high holy day in any religion&lt;/i&gt;

you&#039;re only half-right.  Because religion isn&#039;t the only thing people believe in; tho what you do believe in is a neo-religion.
Millions of folk believe in America.
July 4 &#038; Thanksgiving, the two &quot;great&quot; American holidays.
Not explicitly considered &quot;holy&quot;, yet for many secular folk, especially those who have drifted into Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, the American Thanksgiving &quot;holi-day&quot; is often listed as the best or second best holiday.
 
They go along with all the Christian, Jewish, and other holidays many might celebrate, especially Christmas (or Xmas) for giving and getting gifts.  

I do think belief in America has been sort of a neo-religion, but along with its unifying power, it includes the cynical backlash from the neo-intellectuals who like to point out the imperfections of all folks&#039; belief systems.

In many ways, the multiculturalists are attacking American beliefs in similar ways to how secular humanists have attacked Christian and other religions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo, when you say: <i>Thanksgiving isn’t a high holy day in any religion</i></p>
<p>you&#8217;re only half-right.  Because religion isn&#8217;t the only thing people believe in; tho what you do believe in is a neo-religion.<br />
Millions of folk believe in America.<br />
July 4 &amp; Thanksgiving, the two &#8220;great&#8221; American holidays.<br />
Not explicitly considered &#8220;holy&#8221;, yet for many secular folk, especially those who have drifted into Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, the American Thanksgiving &#8220;holi-day&#8221; is often listed as the best or second best holiday.</p>
<p>They go along with all the Christian, Jewish, and other holidays many might celebrate, especially Christmas (or Xmas) for giving and getting gifts.  </p>
<p>I do think belief in America has been sort of a neo-religion, but along with its unifying power, it includes the cynical backlash from the neo-intellectuals who like to point out the imperfections of all folks&#8217; belief systems.</p>
<p>In many ways, the multiculturalists are attacking American beliefs in similar ways to how secular humanists have attacked Christian and other religions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Grey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431388</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Grey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 17:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431388</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Older+, great essay:
&lt;i&gt;Trump is a walking, talking rejection of multiculturalism and the post-modern ideas that support it. Trump believes there are such things as truth and history and his belief in these things is much more important than whether he always tells the truth himself or knows his history—which admittedly is sometimes doubtful.&lt;/i&gt;

I liked Norman&#039;s being uncomfortable with the anti-Trump folk, and becoming anti-anti-Trump.  I&#039;m very much on board with being anti- anti-Christian; anti- anti-pro-life, and anti- anti-Rep.   So I&#039;m in the anti-PC group, and was, and remain, NeverHillary.  Still hoping that they will Lock Her Up.  (even think that Trump made a mistake not to push for a real investigation early - tho it&#039;s not too late.  And revenge; hm, isn&#039;t that a dish best served cold?)

Trump fights against PC bull manure, and is fighting FOR America:
&lt;i&gt;The core idea of each of these anti-P.C. blasts, when taken in aggregate, represent a commitment to America’s bourgeois culture, which is culturally “Judeo-Christian,” insists on having but one language and one set of laws, and values: among other things, loyalty, practical experience, self-reliance, and hard work. Trump was affirming the goodness of our culture. Odd as it may sound, he was telling us how to live a worthy life. &lt;/i&gt;

Wow, really a great essay.  Tho he doesn&#039;t mention another great essay, the &lt;i&gt;Flight 93 election&lt;/i&gt;, Thomas K makes reference to how, without Trump, it might have gotten so bad it could never get back.  My second thought, after 93, was it probably will never get back -- but it might.

He finally points out what I&#039;ve concluded, the primary source of the rot is at our colleges, especially our elite colleges.
&lt;i&gt;the purpose of higher education, in particular elite higher education, is to train future citizens on behalf of the common good. If the elite universities are promoting multiculturalism, and if multiculturalism is undermining America, then the universities are violating their obligation to the common good no less than were they giving comfort to the enemy in time of war.&lt;/i&gt;

We need to end Fed research to colleges which discriminate against hiring Reps as professors; end tax-exempt status for them, and punish them as much as the law against discrimination allows.  

Plus support Rep students filing suits against &quot;hostile environments&quot; by the colleges.  We should plans on what to do drawn up, so Reps can propose those plans in 2020, get elected, and fulfill the plans.  Gov&#039;t supported ed requires hiring Reps as well as Dems.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Older+, great essay:<br />
<i>Trump is a walking, talking rejection of multiculturalism and the post-modern ideas that support it. Trump believes there are such things as truth and history and his belief in these things is much more important than whether he always tells the truth himself or knows his history—which admittedly is sometimes doubtful.</i></p>
<p>I liked Norman&#8217;s being uncomfortable with the anti-Trump folk, and becoming anti-anti-Trump.  I&#8217;m very much on board with being anti- anti-Christian; anti- anti-pro-life, and anti- anti-Rep.   So I&#8217;m in the anti-PC group, and was, and remain, NeverHillary.  Still hoping that they will Lock Her Up.  (even think that Trump made a mistake not to push for a real investigation early &#8211; tho it&#8217;s not too late.  And revenge; hm, isn&#8217;t that a dish best served cold?)</p>
<p>Trump fights against PC bull manure, and is fighting FOR America:<br />
<i>The core idea of each of these anti-P.C. blasts, when taken in aggregate, represent a commitment to America’s bourgeois culture, which is culturally “Judeo-Christian,” insists on having but one language and one set of laws, and values: among other things, loyalty, practical experience, self-reliance, and hard work. Trump was affirming the goodness of our culture. Odd as it may sound, he was telling us how to live a worthy life. </i></p>
<p>Wow, really a great essay.  Tho he doesn&#8217;t mention another great essay, the <i>Flight 93 election</i>, Thomas K makes reference to how, without Trump, it might have gotten so bad it could never get back.  My second thought, after 93, was it probably will never get back &#8212; but it might.</p>
<p>He finally points out what I&#8217;ve concluded, the primary source of the rot is at our colleges, especially our elite colleges.<br />
<i>the purpose of higher education, in particular elite higher education, is to train future citizens on behalf of the common good. If the elite universities are promoting multiculturalism, and if multiculturalism is undermining America, then the universities are violating their obligation to the common good no less than were they giving comfort to the enemy in time of war.</i></p>
<p>We need to end Fed research to colleges which discriminate against hiring Reps as professors; end tax-exempt status for them, and punish them as much as the law against discrimination allows.  </p>
<p>Plus support Rep students filing suits against &#8220;hostile environments&#8221; by the colleges.  We should plans on what to do drawn up, so Reps can propose those plans in 2020, get elected, and fulfill the plans.  Gov&#8217;t supported ed requires hiring Reps as well as Dems.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431387</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 17:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431387</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Art Deco:

Your point?

Thanksgiving is only celebrated by Americans, period (although some other countries have a Thanksgiving of their own).  So of course when I say it&#039;s celebrated by Jews I mean American Jews, because it&#039;s limited to Americans in general.

However (and this is why I put that link in there that was a discussion of Sukkot), observant Jews have another type of &quot;thanksgiving&quot; holiday that is a harvest festival.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art Deco:</p>
<p>Your point?</p>
<p>Thanksgiving is only celebrated by Americans, period (although some other countries have a Thanksgiving of their own).  So of course when I say it&#8217;s celebrated by Jews I mean American Jews, because it&#8217;s limited to Americans in general.</p>
<p>However (and this is why I put that link in there that was a discussion of Sukkot), observant Jews have another type of &#8220;thanksgiving&#8221; holiday that is a harvest festival.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431386</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 17:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431386</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Frederick:

Actually, my vision isn&#039;t so hot lately (cataract, probably need some surgery) and that emoji was very small on my screen and didn&#039;t look like a smiley face but a certain of flatline mouth, kind of a glum face.  It still looks that way, actually, unless I make the font a lot larger than usual.  So I simply didn&#039;t see your remark as a joke necessarily, although I thought it might be.  That&#039;s why I wrote that I didn&#039;t know what you were talking about---because I really wasn&#039;t sure why you made the remark and what you meant by it.

But I took it as an opportunity to talk about the Jewish attitude towards Thanksgiving.  Thanksgiving isn&#039;t a high holy day in any religion, of course, and Jews celebrate it as much as anyone, and have their own version of Thanksgiving as well.  That was my only point.

Jews have only two high holy days which are really one connected period, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.  That&#039;s it.  Even Passover, coming up this evening, isn&#039;t considered a high holy day although it&#039;s a big holiday.  

Sometimes I put information in the comments not just for the person I&#039;m addressing---who may indeed be aware of everything I&#039;m writing---but for everyone who might be reading.  I just did it there when I talked about the high holy days.

But now I understand what you were getting at.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frederick:</p>
<p>Actually, my vision isn&#8217;t so hot lately (cataract, probably need some surgery) and that emoji was very small on my screen and didn&#8217;t look like a smiley face but a certain of flatline mouth, kind of a glum face.  It still looks that way, actually, unless I make the font a lot larger than usual.  So I simply didn&#8217;t see your remark as a joke necessarily, although I thought it might be.  That&#8217;s why I wrote that I didn&#8217;t know what you were talking about&#8212;because I really wasn&#8217;t sure why you made the remark and what you meant by it.</p>
<p>But I took it as an opportunity to talk about the Jewish attitude towards Thanksgiving.  Thanksgiving isn&#8217;t a high holy day in any religion, of course, and Jews celebrate it as much as anyone, and have their own version of Thanksgiving as well.  That was my only point.</p>
<p>Jews have only two high holy days which are really one connected period, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.  That&#8217;s it.  Even Passover, coming up this evening, isn&#8217;t considered a high holy day although it&#8217;s a big holiday.  </p>
<p>Sometimes I put information in the comments not just for the person I&#8217;m addressing&#8212;who may indeed be aware of everything I&#8217;m writing&#8212;but for everyone who might be reading.  I just did it there when I talked about the high holy days.</p>
<p>But now I understand what you were getting at.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frederick		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431375</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frederick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 14:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431375</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@neo:&lt;i&gt;Thanksgiving is absolutely a holiday celebrated by Jews&lt;/i&gt;

Wasn&#039;t saying they don&#039;t celebrate Thanksgiving. Not a &quot;high holy day technically&quot; is what I said.

You know I hate that people use emojis to indicate the tone of a comment--but I made that concession and STILL got misinterpreted. :roll:

I&#039;m sure most American Jews celebrate Independence Day but that wouldn&#039;t make it a high holy day would it? The list of high holy days that NJ Mike gave seems pretty limited, but those aren&#039;t the only days Jews celebrate.

But it&#039;s interesting, right, that others commenters assumed I must have been saying that Jew don&#039;t celebrate Thanksgiving. One person assumed I said so, and the others piled on.

And so I can see why the media finds it so easy to mischaracterize what Trump said.  It&#039;s a very human thing to do--to respond to what you expect someone to have meant by what they said, rather than what they actually did say.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@neo:<i>Thanksgiving is absolutely a holiday celebrated by Jews</i></p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t saying they don&#8217;t celebrate Thanksgiving. Not a &#8220;high holy day technically&#8221; is what I said.</p>
<p>You know I hate that people use emojis to indicate the tone of a comment&#8211;but I made that concession and STILL got misinterpreted. 🙄</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure most American Jews celebrate Independence Day but that wouldn&#8217;t make it a high holy day would it? The list of high holy days that NJ Mike gave seems pretty limited, but those aren&#8217;t the only days Jews celebrate.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s interesting, right, that others commenters assumed I must have been saying that Jew don&#8217;t celebrate Thanksgiving. One person assumed I said so, and the others piled on.</p>
<p>And so I can see why the media finds it so easy to mischaracterize what Trump said.  It&#8217;s a very human thing to do&#8211;to respond to what you expect someone to have meant by what they said, rather than what they actually did say.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431370</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 12:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431370</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Thanksgiving is absolutely a holiday celebrated by Jews&lt;/i&gt;

By American Jews.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Thanksgiving is absolutely a holiday celebrated by Jews</i></p>
<p>By American Jews.</p>
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		<title>
		By: NJMike		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/04/18/lets-hear-it-for-norman-podhoretz-the-original-neocon/#comment-2431366</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NJMike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2019 11:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=86478#comment-2431366</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OK, nobody seems to be suggesting that Jews do not celebrate Thanksgiving, just that it is not a &quot;High Holy Day&quot;, a term which strictly means Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and in some interpretations includes the ten days in between. I&#039;m pretty sure even Passover is not technically a High Holy Day.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, nobody seems to be suggesting that Jews do not celebrate Thanksgiving, just that it is not a &#8220;High Holy Day&#8221;, a term which strictly means Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and in some interpretations includes the ten days in between. I&#8217;m pretty sure even Passover is not technically a High Holy Day.</p>
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