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	Comments on: Sabotaging Brexit?	</title>
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	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Clayton		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419467</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Clayton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419467</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Although David Cameron was never in favor of a Brexit, he &#039;casually&#039; allowed for what was at best a not-so-low probability of a very severe outcome (from his &#038; his political allies &lt;em&gt;supposed&lt;/em&gt; position.

Why, really, did he do that?  Yes, there are written explanations ... which imo if you buy it you will be charmed by the lovely Mojave acreage I have for sale, or perhaps by stock I hold in a certain famous Bridge.  In common parlance, it was simply crazy ... &lt;em&gt;as presented&lt;/em&gt;.

My suspicion is that PM May &#038; Co are engaged in same sorts of Byzantine (large-scale, geo) politics.  They say they&#039;re globalists, but they are not acting in globalism&#039;s big-picture interests.  Au contraire.

Indeed, the EU project itself has always seemed sub-believable.  The Soviet Union collapsed, and Europe proposes to create one of their own.  &quot;Closer and closer union, like the U.S.A&quot;?  Wrong acronym.

If they had a long time in which to slowly boil the frog ... but the USSR clamped down on national identities for 70 years, and the day after it closed shop, all those nations came roaring back.  

And Europe watched this object-lesson play-out live, even as they - supposedly - planned to stomp out even-stronger national cultures, in a fraction of the time.

In fact, I don&#039;t own any Mojave Desert or Bridge Stock, because you have to be a nitwit to buy the EU&#039;s explanation of what they&#039;re doing, and to what end.  And the whole Brexit dance-of-veils is part &#038; parcel of it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although David Cameron was never in favor of a Brexit, he &#8216;casually&#8217; allowed for what was at best a not-so-low probability of a very severe outcome (from his &amp; his political allies <em>supposed</em> position.</p>
<p>Why, really, did he do that?  Yes, there are written explanations &#8230; which imo if you buy it you will be charmed by the lovely Mojave acreage I have for sale, or perhaps by stock I hold in a certain famous Bridge.  In common parlance, it was simply crazy &#8230; <em>as presented</em>.</p>
<p>My suspicion is that PM May &amp; Co are engaged in same sorts of Byzantine (large-scale, geo) politics.  They say they&#8217;re globalists, but they are not acting in globalism&#8217;s big-picture interests.  Au contraire.</p>
<p>Indeed, the EU project itself has always seemed sub-believable.  The Soviet Union collapsed, and Europe proposes to create one of their own.  &#8220;Closer and closer union, like the U.S.A&#8221;?  Wrong acronym.</p>
<p>If they had a long time in which to slowly boil the frog &#8230; but the USSR clamped down on national identities for 70 years, and the day after it closed shop, all those nations came roaring back.  </p>
<p>And Europe watched this object-lesson play-out live, even as they &#8211; supposedly &#8211; planned to stomp out even-stronger national cultures, in a fraction of the time.</p>
<p>In fact, I don&#8217;t own any Mojave Desert or Bridge Stock, because you have to be a nitwit to buy the EU&#8217;s explanation of what they&#8217;re doing, and to what end.  And the whole Brexit dance-of-veils is part &amp; parcel of it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419461</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419461</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The last referendum took 22 weeks. There are 10 weeks before we legally leave and 17 before the scheduled EU parliament elections, by which time the EU has insisted (entirely reasonably for once) that the matter be settled. And those proposing a second referendum are still arguing what the question should be. There ain&#039;t time. And given the depth of feeling on the leave side, and that project fear has been discredited I wouldn&#039;t bet on a remain win.
Since in the absence of Parliamentary and EU agreement to some particular deal we are legally bound to leave on March 29 I expect that to happen as I can see no deal available that can win approval both in the HoC and the EU.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last referendum took 22 weeks. There are 10 weeks before we legally leave and 17 before the scheduled EU parliament elections, by which time the EU has insisted (entirely reasonably for once) that the matter be settled. And those proposing a second referendum are still arguing what the question should be. There ain&#8217;t time. And given the depth of feeling on the leave side, and that project fear has been discredited I wouldn&#8217;t bet on a remain win.<br />
Since in the absence of Parliamentary and EU agreement to some particular deal we are legally bound to leave on March 29 I expect that to happen as I can see no deal available that can win approval both in the HoC and the EU.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike K		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419458</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419458</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This all reminds me of my one visit to Parliament and the House of Commons.  It was 1977 and before the IRA bombing that closed Parliament to visitors.  We got into an enormous line on Saturday morning. As we stood there, a man came along and told us to go to the front of the line. We did so and he went off again. We finally figured out that he was collecting all the tourists that he heard speaking English. Finally, he told us all that he was a tour guide and we would be the first to enter when the doors opened at 9.  He was a retired policemen and had been stationed at Parliament during the War,  His tour was terrific and he pointed out all sorts of subtle things in the building.

At one point he showed us where he and Winston had stood the morning after Parliament was bombed in the Blitz.  He also commented that he did not conduct Germans on tours. He said that they had finally got here but he was not going to help them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This all reminds me of my one visit to Parliament and the House of Commons.  It was 1977 and before the IRA bombing that closed Parliament to visitors.  We got into an enormous line on Saturday morning. As we stood there, a man came along and told us to go to the front of the line. We did so and he went off again. We finally figured out that he was collecting all the tourists that he heard speaking English. Finally, he told us all that he was a tour guide and we would be the first to enter when the doors opened at 9.  He was a retired policemen and had been stationed at Parliament during the War,  His tour was terrific and he pointed out all sorts of subtle things in the building.</p>
<p>At one point he showed us where he and Winston had stood the morning after Parliament was bombed in the Blitz.  He also commented that he did not conduct Germans on tours. He said that they had finally got here but he was not going to help them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Darren		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419457</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419457</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;For May, it’s not clear that she is committed to Brexit...&quot;

What&#039;s wrong with &quot;It&#039;s not clear that May is committed to Brexit...&quot;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For May, it’s not clear that she is committed to Brexit&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s wrong with &#8220;It&#8217;s not clear that May is committed to Brexit&#8230;&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>
		By: cthulhu		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419455</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cthulhu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419455</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[May&#039;s deal, and a crash-out Brexit, illuminate a very telling LACK of quid-pro-quo. May&#039;s deal said that the Brits would pay Billions to Brussels, would allow their fisheries to be looted, would conform their products to faceless Brussels bureaucrat&#039;s standards, and take a knee to EU courts.....for what, precisely?


In order to regularize a crash-out Brexit, there&#039;d have to be a rapid succession of &quot;little deals&quot; -- What&#039;s it worth to protect &quot;cheddar&quot;? What are fishing rights in British territorial waters worth? Will the EU allow the sale of &quot;EU ale&quot; alongside &quot;British ale&quot; when the standards are different?


The sum of such &quot;little deals&quot; is likely to be quite a bit different from the May proposal. I&#039;d suspect that it&#039;d be different by a ratio of roughly 432:202. May&#039;s fault was to suppose that she must clutch tightly when every indication showed a deal could be fairly made for each particular on a more fair basis.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May&#8217;s deal, and a crash-out Brexit, illuminate a very telling LACK of quid-pro-quo. May&#8217;s deal said that the Brits would pay Billions to Brussels, would allow their fisheries to be looted, would conform their products to faceless Brussels bureaucrat&#8217;s standards, and take a knee to EU courts&#8230;..for what, precisely?</p>
<p>In order to regularize a crash-out Brexit, there&#8217;d have to be a rapid succession of &#8220;little deals&#8221; &#8212; What&#8217;s it worth to protect &#8220;cheddar&#8221;? What are fishing rights in British territorial waters worth? Will the EU allow the sale of &#8220;EU ale&#8221; alongside &#8220;British ale&#8221; when the standards are different?</p>
<p>The sum of such &#8220;little deals&#8221; is likely to be quite a bit different from the May proposal. I&#8217;d suspect that it&#8217;d be different by a ratio of roughly 432:202. May&#8217;s fault was to suppose that she must clutch tightly when every indication showed a deal could be fairly made for each particular on a more fair basis.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fen		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419454</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419454</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[“Perhaps, Britain must undergo the catastrophe of a no-deal Brexit&quot;

WTO, like most other nations. 

And I speak for most Anericans, we would LOVE to include you in our new trade org with Mexico and Canada.  

I&#039;m astonished at the arrogant ignorance of EU leadership.  They are amateur tyrants.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Perhaps, Britain must undergo the catastrophe of a no-deal Brexit&#8221;</p>
<p>WTO, like most other nations. </p>
<p>And I speak for most Anericans, we would LOVE to include you in our new trade org with Mexico and Canada.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m astonished at the arrogant ignorance of EU leadership.  They are amateur tyrants.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419449</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419449</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/01/eu-tells-theresa-may-to-cancel-brexit/#comment-914563

Olinser &#124; January 16, 2019 at 3:32 pm
People have been warning about this for YEARS.

Politicians from all parties in the UK didn’t actually expect it to pass. They just did it as a PR stunt to shut up the Brexiters because they believed their own bullshit and biased polls.

Just like Trump, they were WOEFULLY unprepared when Brexit passed.

From the very start their goal has been to try and artificially force enough pain so that they could throw up their hands and demand another vote ‘now that people understand how difficult it would be’.

This was their goal from the very start.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/01/eu-tells-theresa-may-to-cancel-brexit/#comment-914563" rel="nofollow ugc">https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/01/eu-tells-theresa-may-to-cancel-brexit/#comment-914563</a></p>
<p>Olinser | January 16, 2019 at 3:32 pm<br />
People have been warning about this for YEARS.</p>
<p>Politicians from all parties in the UK didn’t actually expect it to pass. They just did it as a PR stunt to shut up the Brexiters because they believed their own bullshit and biased polls.</p>
<p>Just like Trump, they were WOEFULLY unprepared when Brexit passed.</p>
<p>From the very start their goal has been to try and artificially force enough pain so that they could throw up their hands and demand another vote ‘now that people understand how difficult it would be’.</p>
<p>This was their goal from the very start.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419448</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419448</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yancey - this commenter (and others) at LI agrees with you.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/01/eu-tells-theresa-may-to-cancel-brexit/#comment-914664

Socratease &#124; January 16, 2019 at 9:12 pm
The Left always wants repeated votes until they win, then declare any further votes are prohibited.

* * * 
Leftist definition of democracy: one man, one vote, one time.
Or as another ideological leader- not leftist, but just as tyrannical -- put it: democracy is a train you ride until you reach your destination, and then you get off.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yancey &#8211; this commenter (and others) at LI agrees with you.<br />
<a href="https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/01/eu-tells-theresa-may-to-cancel-brexit/#comment-914664" rel="nofollow ugc">https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/01/eu-tells-theresa-may-to-cancel-brexit/#comment-914664</a></p>
<p>Socratease | January 16, 2019 at 9:12 pm<br />
The Left always wants repeated votes until they win, then declare any further votes are prohibited.</p>
<p>* * *<br />
Leftist definition of democracy: one man, one vote, one time.<br />
Or as another ideological leader- not leftist, but just as tyrannical &#8212; put it: democracy is a train you ride until you reach your destination, and then you get off.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419447</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419447</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yancey Ward on January 16, 2019 at 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm said:
They would have cheated the first time except they had Hillaryesque levels of confidence in the outcome.
* * *
Indeed.
No leftist government will ever make THAT mistake again.
Of course, if they are actually on target to win and still game the ballots, the blatant over-kill may give them away.
Not that they would care, having won, and conservatives never challenge elections, thus far.
That may need to change also, but then we would be well on our way to a hot war, because the left will not brook open opposition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yancey Ward on January 16, 2019 at 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm said:<br />
They would have cheated the first time except they had Hillaryesque levels of confidence in the outcome.<br />
* * *<br />
Indeed.<br />
No leftist government will ever make THAT mistake again.<br />
Of course, if they are actually on target to win and still game the ballots, the blatant over-kill may give them away.<br />
Not that they would care, having won, and conservatives never challenge elections, thus far.<br />
That may need to change also, but then we would be well on our way to a hot war, because the left will not brook open opposition.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2019/01/16/sabotaging-brexit/#comment-2419445</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=83952#comment-2419445</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kai Akker on January 16, 2019 at 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm said:
The Brexit opposition apparently feels that if a referendum were held today, Brexit would lose, and they are determined to get to that point. –Neo

If ANOTHER referendum…. yes, exactly. &lt;b&gt;Like Democrats here, the British status-quo’ers apparently consider elections meaningful only when their side wins.&lt;/b&gt;

That would be one of the greatest provocations of this revolutionary period, IMO. A re-vote renders all future elections meaningless, in principle — and in practice, if they are close. Cross that river once, there is no coming back.

Then democracy is only a façade. Many think that’s the case now, of course. I answered one of those fundraising “surveys” just the other day and Steve Scalise asked me what I considered this nation’s single biggest problem. Surprised myself a little when I answered election integrity.

But that is what all of this is about, really.
* * *
I feel much the same way about the incessant recalls of politicians, even if the result follows the policies I favor.
We had a local school board brouhaha a couple of years ago; a conservative slate won handily.  Then the Unions sent people and money, instigated a mid-election-cycle recall, outspent the incumbents literally 10 to 1, and got their tax-and-spend board cronies re-installed.
*Spit*
Recall, like impeachment, should be limited to manifestly unethical conduct, not just implementing policies the losers don&#039;t like.

And don&#039;t forget that a fair number of EU members are in the union because their leaders wouldn&#039;t take NO for an answer the first couple of times the people voted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kai Akker on January 16, 2019 at 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm said:<br />
The Brexit opposition apparently feels that if a referendum were held today, Brexit would lose, and they are determined to get to that point. –Neo</p>
<p>If ANOTHER referendum…. yes, exactly. <b>Like Democrats here, the British status-quo’ers apparently consider elections meaningful only when their side wins.</b></p>
<p>That would be one of the greatest provocations of this revolutionary period, IMO. A re-vote renders all future elections meaningless, in principle — and in practice, if they are close. Cross that river once, there is no coming back.</p>
<p>Then democracy is only a façade. Many think that’s the case now, of course. I answered one of those fundraising “surveys” just the other day and Steve Scalise asked me what I considered this nation’s single biggest problem. Surprised myself a little when I answered election integrity.</p>
<p>But that is what all of this is about, really.<br />
* * *<br />
I feel much the same way about the incessant recalls of politicians, even if the result follows the policies I favor.<br />
We had a local school board brouhaha a couple of years ago; a conservative slate won handily.  Then the Unions sent people and money, instigated a mid-election-cycle recall, outspent the incumbents literally 10 to 1, and got their tax-and-spend board cronies re-installed.<br />
*Spit*<br />
Recall, like impeachment, should be limited to manifestly unethical conduct, not just implementing policies the losers don&#8217;t like.</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t forget that a fair number of EU members are in the union because their leaders wouldn&#8217;t take NO for an answer the first couple of times the people voted.</p>
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