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	Comments on: Why the MSM couldn&#8217;t resist the Manafort/Assange story	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413925</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2018 15:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413925</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo - Godwin picked on &quot;Nazi comments&quot; for exactly the reason that we have seen the Left deploy that epithet for the Right where it clearly does not apply.
Once a comment thread hits the point where accusations of &quot;Nazi!&quot; appear, then all reasonable discussion has ceased.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/03/godwins-law-mike-godwin-hitler-nazi-comparisons.html

That point is getting sooner and sooner, and in some cases, reaches into the original posts themselves.

Wikipedia: Godwin&#039;s law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons. &quot;Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics,&quot; Godwin wrote, &quot;its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.&quot;[12]

FWIW, Godwin now asserts that it may be perfectly approriate to refer to Trump and his supporters as Nazis (and certainly to the Charlottesville neo-Nazis (duh) -- but not to Antifa, apparently), and his law does not apply to those &quot;discussions.&quot;
(links at Wiki).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo &#8211; Godwin picked on &#8220;Nazi comments&#8221; for exactly the reason that we have seen the Left deploy that epithet for the Right where it clearly does not apply.<br />
Once a comment thread hits the point where accusations of &#8220;Nazi!&#8221; appear, then all reasonable discussion has ceased.<br />
<a href="http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/03/godwins-law-mike-godwin-hitler-nazi-comparisons.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/03/godwins-law-mike-godwin-hitler-nazi-comparisons.html</a></p>
<p>That point is getting sooner and sooner, and in some cases, reaches into the original posts themselves.</p>
<p>Wikipedia: Godwin&#8217;s law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons. &#8220;Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics,&#8221; Godwin wrote, &#8220;its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.&#8221;[12]</p>
<p>FWIW, Godwin now asserts that it may be perfectly approriate to refer to Trump and his supporters as Nazis (and certainly to the Charlottesville neo-Nazis (duh) &#8212; but not to Antifa, apparently), and his law does not apply to those &#8220;discussions.&#8221;<br />
(links at Wiki).</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2018 19:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sonny Wayze:

Yes, Godwin&#039;s Law isn&#039;t saying much on the face of it.  But the  unspoken premise behind the law is that the probability that the topic of Nazis will come up in any online discussion is higher than the probability of any other single subject coming up.

Or something like that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonny Wayze:</p>
<p>Yes, Godwin&#8217;s Law isn&#8217;t saying much on the face of it.  But the  unspoken premise behind the law is that the probability that the topic of Nazis will come up in any online discussion is higher than the probability of any other single subject coming up.</p>
<p>Or something like that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sonny Wayze		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413866</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sonny Wayze]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2018 19:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413866</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[MikeK,

&quot;I hate to go full Godwin here but...&quot;

As I understand it, Godwin&#039;s law is as follows:

=====
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
=====

It seems to me that this is trivially true.  As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving architecture/ballet/Cesium, etc. also approaches 1.  If any of the preceding haven&#039;t been referenced, well then, the discussion simply hasn&#039;t gone on long enough.

In other words, I really don&#039;t understand the deference to Godwin&#039;s law.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MikeK,</p>
<p>&#8220;I hate to go full Godwin here but&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>As I understand it, Godwin&#8217;s law is as follows:</p>
<p>=====<br />
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.<br />
=====</p>
<p>It seems to me that this is trivially true.  As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving architecture/ballet/Cesium, etc. also approaches 1.  If any of the preceding haven&#8217;t been referenced, well then, the discussion simply hasn&#8217;t gone on long enough.</p>
<p>In other words, I really don&#8217;t understand the deference to Godwin&#8217;s law.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413719</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413719</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I keep thinking that this steadily eroding credibility will result in people finally seeing the light and abandoning the MSM one-by-one.&quot; 
People don&#039;t give up their beliefs when they are lied to but instead they hold onto these beliefs even more firmly. This is a good book on the topic.
https://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Leon-Festinger/dp/1578988527]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I keep thinking that this steadily eroding credibility will result in people finally seeing the light and abandoning the MSM one-by-one.&#8221;<br />
People don&#8217;t give up their beliefs when they are lied to but instead they hold onto these beliefs even more firmly. This is a good book on the topic.<br />
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Leon-Festinger/dp/1578988527" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Leon-Festinger/dp/1578988527</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: MikeK		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413718</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413718</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another Mueller story, &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/11/another-cohen-guilty-plea.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; that seems to focus on Trump&#039;s business before he was president.&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;The Times reports that “Cohen admitted to making false statements to Congress about his efforts to pursue a Trump Tower deal in Moscow during the 2016 presidential campaign.” &lt;/i&gt;

In January 2016, before he was the nominee, his associates were working on a project that undoubtedly preceded his announcement he was running.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another Mueller story, <a href="https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/11/another-cohen-guilty-plea.php" rel="nofollow"> that seems to focus on Trump&#8217;s business before he was president.</a></p>
<p><i>The Times reports that “Cohen admitted to making false statements to Congress about his efforts to pursue a Trump Tower deal in Moscow during the 2016 presidential campaign.” </i></p>
<p>In January 2016, before he was the nominee, his associates were working on a project that undoubtedly preceded his announcement he was running.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MikeK		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413711</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413711</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I keep thinking that this steadily eroding credibility will result in people finally seeing the light and abandoning the MSM one-by-one. &lt;/i&gt;

I hate to go full Godwin here but, with the US media, I keep thinking of why all those intelligent Germans went along with Hitler.  Goebbels would be proud of CNN.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I keep thinking that this steadily eroding credibility will result in people finally seeing the light and abandoning the MSM one-by-one. </i></p>
<p>I hate to go full Godwin here but, with the US media, I keep thinking of why all those intelligent Germans went along with Hitler.  Goebbels would be proud of CNN.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413696</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2018 09:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413696</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;...Speaking a Greater Truth...&quot;

AKA &quot;...hiding the truth....&quot; (or if you wish, &quot;obfuscating the truth&quot;, or &quot;lying by omission&quot;---gosh, all these choices!)

Key graph from: 
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/is_the_deep_state_feeling_the_heat.html 

&quot;Bad as it may have been, the worst of the Russia Hoax was not the abuse of the FISA electronic surveillance regime for political purposes. Nor is the worst even the patent involvement of our intelligence agencies -- and in particular the FBI and CIA -- in electoral politics. No, the worst aspect of the Russia Hoax is that our intelligence agencies, including elements of DoJ and the State Department cooperating with the Clinton campaign, enlisted the intelligence services of foreign powers -- first in their effort to defeat the candidacy of Donald Trump and, when that effort failed, turning their efforts to what can only be described as an attempted coup against the elected President of the United States.&quot;

File under: Most certainly NOT &quot;All the news that&#039;s fit to print&quot;(!)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;Speaking a Greater Truth&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>AKA &#8220;&#8230;hiding the truth&#8230;.&#8221; (or if you wish, &#8220;obfuscating the truth&#8221;, or &#8220;lying by omission&#8221;&#8212;gosh, all these choices!)</p>
<p>Key graph from:<br />
<a href="https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/is_the_deep_state_feeling_the_heat.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/is_the_deep_state_feeling_the_heat.html</a> </p>
<p>&#8220;Bad as it may have been, the worst of the Russia Hoax was not the abuse of the FISA electronic surveillance regime for political purposes. Nor is the worst even the patent involvement of our intelligence agencies &#8212; and in particular the FBI and CIA &#8212; in electoral politics. No, the worst aspect of the Russia Hoax is that our intelligence agencies, including elements of DoJ and the State Department cooperating with the Clinton campaign, enlisted the intelligence services of foreign powers &#8212; first in their effort to defeat the candidacy of Donald Trump and, when that effort failed, turning their efforts to what can only be described as an attempted coup against the elected President of the United States.&#8221;</p>
<p>File under: Most certainly NOT &#8220;All the news that&#8217;s fit to print&#8221;(!)</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413684</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2018 03:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413684</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[steve walsh on November 28, 2018 at 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm said:
Mission accomplished. Lots of people hear the original story, never hear the follow-up walkback or retraction. I’ve not yet asked, and likely won’t, but I’m willing to bet my leftist friends and family are convinced that the meeting took place.
* * *
Indeed. That&#039;s why retractions and corrections are made by stealth, as late as possible, and sometimes not at all.
And then the busted story is re-introduced whenever it serves a political purpose. See: NYT and Sarah Palin in re &quot;crosshairs&quot; and political violence.
Being a leftist means never having to say you&#039;re sorry.

Also, see this:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/11/jerome-corsi-roger-stone-and-the-austin-powers-theory-of-russian-collusion/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve walsh on November 28, 2018 at 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm said:<br />
Mission accomplished. Lots of people hear the original story, never hear the follow-up walkback or retraction. I’ve not yet asked, and likely won’t, but I’m willing to bet my leftist friends and family are convinced that the meeting took place.<br />
* * *<br />
Indeed. That&#8217;s why retractions and corrections are made by stealth, as late as possible, and sometimes not at all.<br />
And then the busted story is re-introduced whenever it serves a political purpose. See: NYT and Sarah Palin in re &#8220;crosshairs&#8221; and political violence.<br />
Being a leftist means never having to say you&#8217;re sorry.</p>
<p>Also, see this:<br />
<a href="https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/11/jerome-corsi-roger-stone-and-the-austin-powers-theory-of-russian-collusion/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/11/jerome-corsi-roger-stone-and-the-austin-powers-theory-of-russian-collusion/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: TommyJay		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TommyJay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2018 02:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not &quot;just&quot; cynicism if it leads one to the truth (about the media).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not &#8220;just&#8221; cynicism if it leads one to the truth (about the media).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Assistant Village Idiot		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/28/why-the-msm-couldnt-resist-the-manafort-assage-story/#comment-2413674</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Assistant Village Idiot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2018 02:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82814#comment-2413674</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I keep thinking that this steadily eroding credibility will result in people finally seeing the light and abandoning the MSM one-by-one. Then i catch myself and think if that were true, it would already have happened.  That type of truth and justice seldom exists outside of comic books. What happens instead is that the standards of their audience keep dropping to fit what they are presented. We require news, and if we don&#039;t have good sources - or refuse to believe good sources for other reasons - then we will have bad ones.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep thinking that this steadily eroding credibility will result in people finally seeing the light and abandoning the MSM one-by-one. Then i catch myself and think if that were true, it would already have happened.  That type of truth and justice seldom exists outside of comic books. What happens instead is that the standards of their audience keep dropping to fit what they are presented. We require news, and if we don&#8217;t have good sources &#8211; or refuse to believe good sources for other reasons &#8211; then we will have bad ones.</p>
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