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	Comments on: Thousand Oaks shooting	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Mike-SMO		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411693</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike-SMO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2018 01:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411693</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The media &quot;reports&quot; that the Authorities responded when the shooter was screaming, howling, and pounding on walls.  California has been suppoirting Illegal Aliens in order to maintain a source of docile voters and cheap labor and apparently has limited resources for social care. 

Perhaps if the shooter was screaming in Spanish.......]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The media &#8220;reports&#8221; that the Authorities responded when the shooter was screaming, howling, and pounding on walls.  California has been suppoirting Illegal Aliens in order to maintain a source of docile voters and cheap labor and apparently has limited resources for social care. </p>
<p>Perhaps if the shooter was screaming in Spanish&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Snow on Pine		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411281</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snow on Pine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2018 13:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411281</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting article out today discussing Liberal (more gun control) and Conservative (arming up) Jews response to the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre.  

See https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/271885/god-and-guns-synagogue-daniel-greenfield#.W-YX_93g1Bc.facebook]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article out today discussing Liberal (more gun control) and Conservative (arming up) Jews response to the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre.  </p>
<p>See <a href="https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/271885/god-and-guns-synagogue-daniel-greenfield#.W-YX_93g1Bc.facebook" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/271885/god-and-guns-synagogue-daniel-greenfield#.W-YX_93g1Bc.facebook</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411136</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2018 16:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411136</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Art Deco on November 10, 2018 at 9:32 am at 9:32 am said:
Until about thirty or forty years ago the US did have a mental healthcare system with a series of state run mental hospitals and institutions spreading from coast to coast.

I think you mean 60-odd years ago. The state asylums were largely closed down for a number of reasons (which, if I’m not mistaken, Clayton Cramer enumerates).
* * *
Thanks for the list and the other information.
The ways to take care of people other than with asylum incarceration are impressive when looked at this way; I have only been kind of peripherally aware of a couple of them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art Deco on November 10, 2018 at 9:32 am at 9:32 am said:<br />
Until about thirty or forty years ago the US did have a mental healthcare system with a series of state run mental hospitals and institutions spreading from coast to coast.</p>
<p>I think you mean 60-odd years ago. The state asylums were largely closed down for a number of reasons (which, if I’m not mistaken, Clayton Cramer enumerates).<br />
* * *<br />
Thanks for the list and the other information.<br />
The ways to take care of people other than with asylum incarceration are impressive when looked at this way; I have only been kind of peripherally aware of a couple of them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411122</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2018 14:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411122</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;as well as sharing insights from a personal perspective &lt;/i&gt;

I had Clayton Cramer on my blog roll and regarded him as someone whose opinion I wanted to check on any issue.  (He took to blogging mostly about technology, which I cannot interest myself in).  His late brother was a violent man and I think this to a certain extent implanted a visceral tendency to see the problems of schizophrenics and the problems they present in a somewhat distorted way.  Fuller Torrey put it thus: stark staring mad is a great deal more common than stark raving mad.  You have about 2 million people in this country with a history of schizophreniform phenomena.  Torrey has offered the estimate that about 1/3 belong in institutional care of some sort, some for violence but most because they&#039;re just too disorganized upstairs to take proper care of themselves or to accede to family supervision.  About 0.5% of the population was incarcerated in state asylums in 1955.  An equivalent census today would be 1.6 million people.  If Torrey is correct, we should have about 670,000 schizophrenics confined, or about 0.2% of the population.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>as well as sharing insights from a personal perspective </i></p>
<p>I had Clayton Cramer on my blog roll and regarded him as someone whose opinion I wanted to check on any issue.  (He took to blogging mostly about technology, which I cannot interest myself in).  His late brother was a violent man and I think this to a certain extent implanted a visceral tendency to see the problems of schizophrenics and the problems they present in a somewhat distorted way.  Fuller Torrey put it thus: stark staring mad is a great deal more common than stark raving mad.  You have about 2 million people in this country with a history of schizophreniform phenomena.  Torrey has offered the estimate that about 1/3 belong in institutional care of some sort, some for violence but most because they&#8217;re just too disorganized upstairs to take proper care of themselves or to accede to family supervision.  About 0.5% of the population was incarcerated in state asylums in 1955.  An equivalent census today would be 1.6 million people.  If Torrey is correct, we should have about 670,000 schizophrenics confined, or about 0.2% of the population.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2018 14:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;A good summary of what has happened to US mental healthcare the past 50 years is well described in “My Brother Ron,” by Clayton Cramer. I see no chance it will improve in my lifetime&lt;/i&gt;

I have a suspicion that only an odd minority of these mass shooters would have been candidates for asylum care in 1955.  Jared Loughner (Gabby Giffords, et al) and James Holmes (the cinema in the Denver suburbs) are certainly nuts.  However, Charles Whitman was not insane in any discrete and observable way ex ante, nor was Stephen Paddock,  nor were the Columbine pair.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A good summary of what has happened to US mental healthcare the past 50 years is well described in “My Brother Ron,” by Clayton Cramer. I see no chance it will improve in my lifetime</i></p>
<p>I have a suspicion that only an odd minority of these mass shooters would have been candidates for asylum care in 1955.  Jared Loughner (Gabby Giffords, et al) and James Holmes (the cinema in the Denver suburbs) are certainly nuts.  However, Charles Whitman was not insane in any discrete and observable way ex ante, nor was Stephen Paddock,  nor were the Columbine pair.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411117</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2018 14:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411117</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Until about thirty or forty years ago the US did have a mental healthcare system with a series of state run mental hospitals and institutions spreading from coast to coast. &lt;/i&gt;

I think you mean 60-odd years ago.  The state asylums were largely closed down for a number of reasons (which, if I&#039;m not mistaken, Clayton Cramer enumerates).

1. Certain inmate populations disappeared due to public health improvements, such as people driven mad by tertiary syphilis.  The last of the post-encephalytic patients Oliver Sacks cared for died in 1982.

2. Psychotroptic medications and outpatient supervision replaced inpatient housing for a large fraction of the population with schizophreniform disorders.  Twenty-four hour care is superlatively expensive and coercive, so there&#039;a a large incentive to take advantage of alternatives to incarceration.

3. A great many of the asylum census in 1955 were short term residents, in and out in six weeks.  Such people can commonly be handled in outpatient care or insurance-financed inpatient care in private facilities.

4. A great many were suffering senile dementia.  Such people are in nursing homes nowadays, their residency financed by Medicaid.

5. A certain number were mentally retarded.  They&#039;re in group homes nowadays.  

6. Others are now in private institutions, financed by Medicaid and other programs.


You really don&#039;t need facilities operated by state employees bar those which are auxilliary to the prison system.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Until about thirty or forty years ago the US did have a mental healthcare system with a series of state run mental hospitals and institutions spreading from coast to coast. </i></p>
<p>I think you mean 60-odd years ago.  The state asylums were largely closed down for a number of reasons (which, if I&#8217;m not mistaken, Clayton Cramer enumerates).</p>
<p>1. Certain inmate populations disappeared due to public health improvements, such as people driven mad by tertiary syphilis.  The last of the post-encephalytic patients Oliver Sacks cared for died in 1982.</p>
<p>2. Psychotroptic medications and outpatient supervision replaced inpatient housing for a large fraction of the population with schizophreniform disorders.  Twenty-four hour care is superlatively expensive and coercive, so there&#8217;a a large incentive to take advantage of alternatives to incarceration.</p>
<p>3. A great many of the asylum census in 1955 were short term residents, in and out in six weeks.  Such people can commonly be handled in outpatient care or insurance-financed inpatient care in private facilities.</p>
<p>4. A great many were suffering senile dementia.  Such people are in nursing homes nowadays, their residency financed by Medicaid.</p>
<p>5. A certain number were mentally retarded.  They&#8217;re in group homes nowadays.  </p>
<p>6. Others are now in private institutions, financed by Medicaid and other programs.</p>
<p>You really don&#8217;t need facilities operated by state employees bar those which are auxilliary to the prison system.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411074</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2018 03:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411074</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Artfldgr on November 9, 2018 at 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm said:
its a bit freaking obvious… but hey, people dont notice the obvious

marine… loves country…serves..
comes back in a time that is repeating the 70s urine tossing yippies

settles in, decides on a career, and as a marine, goes to school at a super liveral cis white male hating, double hating baby killers, environement till he quit.
* * *
Indeed.
And not a new phenomenon.
Quite a few of the Brothers Grimm tales feature discharged veterans in much the same position.

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_tommy.htm

I WENT into a public &#039;ouse to get a pint o&#039; beer, 
The publican &#039;e up an&#039; sez, &quot; We serve no red-coats here.&quot; 
The girls be&#039;ind the bar they laughed an&#039; giggled fit to die, 
I outs into the street again an&#039; to myself sez I: 
O it&#039;s Tommy this, an&#039; Tommy that, an&#039; &quot; Tommy, go away &quot; ; 
But it&#039;s &quot; Thank you, Mister Atkins,&quot; when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, 
O it&#039;s &quot; Thank you, Mister Atkins,&quot; when the band begins to play. 

I went into a theatre as sober as could be, 
They gave a drunk civilian room, but &#039;adn&#039;t none for me; 
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-&#039;alls, 
But when it comes to fightin&#039;, Lord! they&#039;ll shove me in the stalls! 
For it&#039;s Tommy this, an&#039; Tommy that, an&#039; &quot; Tommy, wait outside &quot;;
But it&#039;s &quot; Special train for Atkins &quot; when the trooper&#039;s on the tide
The troopship&#039;s on the tide, my boys, the troopship&#039;s on the tide, 
O it&#039;s &quot; Special train for Atkins &quot; when the trooper&#039;s on the tide. 

Yes, makin&#039; mock o&#039; uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an&#039; they&#039;re starvation cheap. 
An&#039; hustlin&#039; drunken soldiers when they&#039;re goin&#039; large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin&#039; in full kit. 
Then it&#039;s Tommy this, an&#039; Tommy that, an` Tommy, &#039;ow&#039;s yer soul? &quot;
But it&#039;s &quot; Thin red line of &#039;eroes &quot; when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, 
O it&#039;s &quot; Thin red line of &#039;eroes, &quot; when the drums begin to roll.

We aren&#039;t no thin red &#039;eroes, nor we aren&#039;t no blackguards too, 
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; 
An&#039; if sometimes our conduck isn&#039;t all your fancy paints, 
Why, single men in barricks don&#039;t grow into plaster saints; 
While it&#039;s Tommy this, an&#039; Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be&#039;ind,&quot; 
But it&#039;s &quot; Please to walk in front, sir,&quot; when there&#039;s trouble in the wind
There&#039;s trouble in the wind, my boys, there&#039;s trouble in the wind, 
O it&#039;s &quot; Please to walk in front, sir,&quot; when there&#039;s trouble in the wind.

You talk o&#039; better food for us, an&#039; schools, an&#039; fires, an&#039; all: 
We&#039;ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. 
Don&#039;t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow&#039;s Uniform is not the soldier-man&#039;s disgrace. 
For it&#039;s Tommy this, an&#039; Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! &quot;
But it&#039;s &quot; Saviour of &#039;is country &quot; when the guns begin to shoot; 
An&#039; it&#039;s Tommy this, an&#039; Tommy that, an&#039; anything you please; 
An &#039;Tommy ain&#039;t a bloomin&#039; fool - you bet that Tommy sees!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artfldgr on November 9, 2018 at 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm said:<br />
its a bit freaking obvious… but hey, people dont notice the obvious</p>
<p>marine… loves country…serves..<br />
comes back in a time that is repeating the 70s urine tossing yippies</p>
<p>settles in, decides on a career, and as a marine, goes to school at a super liveral cis white male hating, double hating baby killers, environement till he quit.<br />
* * *<br />
Indeed.<br />
And not a new phenomenon.<br />
Quite a few of the Brothers Grimm tales feature discharged veterans in much the same position.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_tommy.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_tommy.htm</a></p>
<p>I WENT into a public &#8216;ouse to get a pint o&#8217; beer,<br />
The publican &#8216;e up an&#8217; sez, &#8221; We serve no red-coats here.&#8221;<br />
The girls be&#8217;ind the bar they laughed an&#8217; giggled fit to die,<br />
I outs into the street again an&#8217; to myself sez I:<br />
O it&#8217;s Tommy this, an&#8217; Tommy that, an&#8217; &#8221; Tommy, go away &#8221; ;<br />
But it&#8217;s &#8221; Thank you, Mister Atkins,&#8221; when the band begins to play<br />
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,<br />
O it&#8217;s &#8221; Thank you, Mister Atkins,&#8221; when the band begins to play. </p>
<p>I went into a theatre as sober as could be,<br />
They gave a drunk civilian room, but &#8216;adn&#8217;t none for me;<br />
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-&#8216;alls,<br />
But when it comes to fightin&#8217;, Lord! they&#8217;ll shove me in the stalls!<br />
For it&#8217;s Tommy this, an&#8217; Tommy that, an&#8217; &#8221; Tommy, wait outside &#8220;;<br />
But it&#8217;s &#8221; Special train for Atkins &#8221; when the trooper&#8217;s on the tide<br />
The troopship&#8217;s on the tide, my boys, the troopship&#8217;s on the tide,<br />
O it&#8217;s &#8221; Special train for Atkins &#8221; when the trooper&#8217;s on the tide. </p>
<p>Yes, makin&#8217; mock o&#8217; uniforms that guard you while you sleep<br />
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an&#8217; they&#8217;re starvation cheap.<br />
An&#8217; hustlin&#8217; drunken soldiers when they&#8217;re goin&#8217; large a bit<br />
Is five times better business than paradin&#8217; in full kit.<br />
Then it&#8217;s Tommy this, an&#8217; Tommy that, an` Tommy, &#8216;ow&#8217;s yer soul? &#8221;<br />
But it&#8217;s &#8221; Thin red line of &#8216;eroes &#8221; when the drums begin to roll<br />
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,<br />
O it&#8217;s &#8221; Thin red line of &#8216;eroes, &#8221; when the drums begin to roll.</p>
<p>We aren&#8217;t no thin red &#8216;eroes, nor we aren&#8217;t no blackguards too,<br />
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;<br />
An&#8217; if sometimes our conduck isn&#8217;t all your fancy paints,<br />
Why, single men in barricks don&#8217;t grow into plaster saints;<br />
While it&#8217;s Tommy this, an&#8217; Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be&#8217;ind,&#8221;<br />
But it&#8217;s &#8221; Please to walk in front, sir,&#8221; when there&#8217;s trouble in the wind<br />
There&#8217;s trouble in the wind, my boys, there&#8217;s trouble in the wind,<br />
O it&#8217;s &#8221; Please to walk in front, sir,&#8221; when there&#8217;s trouble in the wind.</p>
<p>You talk o&#8217; better food for us, an&#8217; schools, an&#8217; fires, an&#8217; all:<br />
We&#8217;ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.<br />
Don&#8217;t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face<br />
The Widow&#8217;s Uniform is not the soldier-man&#8217;s disgrace.<br />
For it&#8217;s Tommy this, an&#8217; Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! &#8221;<br />
But it&#8217;s &#8221; Saviour of &#8216;is country &#8221; when the guns begin to shoot;<br />
An&#8217; it&#8217;s Tommy this, an&#8217; Tommy that, an&#8217; anything you please;<br />
An &#8216;Tommy ain&#8217;t a bloomin&#8217; fool &#8211; you bet that Tommy sees!</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411066</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2018 02:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411066</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan:

Antifa are just thugs, and some are not male.  Are the non-male Antifa &quot;fugs?&quot;   F**ked up gals?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan:</p>
<p>Antifa are just thugs, and some are not male.  Are the non-male Antifa &#8220;fugs?&#8221;   F**ked up gals?</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411065</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2018 02:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411065</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan:

&quot;Toxic masculinity&quot; is the latest feminist SJM offense used to demean all males who are not feminist enough (a sliding scale of infinite and changeable nature). 

Before &quot;toxic masculinity,&quot; bad behavior in males had many descriptions depending on the nature of the offense and the situation; a**hole, bore, ass, seducer, thug, rapist, etc., and of course being a gentleman or acting as such is now toxic masculinity.  Defending and protecting a vulnerable female or vulnerable other person (whatever sex) is of course &quot;toxic&quot; to a feminist SJW it seems.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan:</p>
<p>&#8220;Toxic masculinity&#8221; is the latest feminist SJM offense used to demean all males who are not feminist enough (a sliding scale of infinite and changeable nature). </p>
<p>Before &#8220;toxic masculinity,&#8221; bad behavior in males had many descriptions depending on the nature of the offense and the situation; a**hole, bore, ass, seducer, thug, rapist, etc., and of course being a gentleman or acting as such is now toxic masculinity.  Defending and protecting a vulnerable female or vulnerable other person (whatever sex) is of course &#8220;toxic&#8221; to a feminist SJW it seems.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-shooting/#comment-2411021</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2018 21:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=82274#comment-2411021</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om on November 9, 2018 at 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm said:
Was this a case of toxic masculinity or the patriarchy? I think not.

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2018/11/09/men-form-human-shield-around-women-protect-gunman-california-shooting/
* * *
As with all dangerous things, the dose makes the poison.
In the doses needed by civilized society, masculinity is not toxic.
However, the mostly male antifa thugs do demonstrate that some men are prone to toxicity when their chosen culture otherwise forbids them to do the normal male &quot;guy things&quot; and wants them to wear PJs, sip cocoa, and be empathetic instead of, you know, regular stoic fix-it kind of guys.
(Parent of 5 boys here, and I hope &#038; expect them to have been among the &quot;sheepdogs&quot; that night, except they wouldn&#039;t have been in a bar.. could have happened at Luby&#039;s or an ice cream parlor, though...)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om on November 9, 2018 at 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm said:<br />
Was this a case of toxic masculinity or the patriarchy? I think not.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2018/11/09/men-form-human-shield-around-women-protect-gunman-california-shooting/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2018/11/09/men-form-human-shield-around-women-protect-gunman-california-shooting/</a><br />
* * *<br />
As with all dangerous things, the dose makes the poison.<br />
In the doses needed by civilized society, masculinity is not toxic.<br />
However, the mostly male antifa thugs do demonstrate that some men are prone to toxicity when their chosen culture otherwise forbids them to do the normal male &#8220;guy things&#8221; and wants them to wear PJs, sip cocoa, and be empathetic instead of, you know, regular stoic fix-it kind of guys.<br />
(Parent of 5 boys here, and I hope &amp; expect them to have been among the &#8220;sheepdogs&#8221; that night, except they wouldn&#8217;t have been in a bar.. could have happened at Luby&#8217;s or an ice cream parlor, though&#8230;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
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