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	Comments on: SCOTUS has been hearing arguments on the Trump travel order	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 01 May 2018 18:00:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: HC68		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384430</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HC68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2018 18:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384430</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a critic of McConnell, I have by no means forgotten Garland.  It&#039;s one of the good things he&#039;s done, and there have been others.

BUT...perspective.  Yes, he blocked Garland, but he was facing the problem that the Congress of 2014 had managed to control both chambers for 2 years and had done &lt;i&gt;nothing&lt;/i&gt; that was popular with the voting base.  Business priorities,  yes, pretending to fight Obama while actually giving in, yes, but nothing accomplished that the voters really cared about.

So he had to do something, and blocking Garland was a pretty darned good something.

Likewise, finishing the rules changes Reid had started to get Gorsuch confirmed.  That was something.

But McConnell has been making a habit of doing the absolute bare minimum he can get away with doing, while working away behind the scenes at his real agenda.  That&#039;s catching up with him.  The recent omnibus spending bill is a classic example.  So is his active sabotage of GOP candidates in various elections.

McConnell is not as bad as Schumer, but the GOP base has plenty of solid reason to distrust him.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a critic of McConnell, I have by no means forgotten Garland.  It&#8217;s one of the good things he&#8217;s done, and there have been others.</p>
<p>BUT&#8230;perspective.  Yes, he blocked Garland, but he was facing the problem that the Congress of 2014 had managed to control both chambers for 2 years and had done <i>nothing</i> that was popular with the voting base.  Business priorities,  yes, pretending to fight Obama while actually giving in, yes, but nothing accomplished that the voters really cared about.</p>
<p>So he had to do something, and blocking Garland was a pretty darned good something.</p>
<p>Likewise, finishing the rules changes Reid had started to get Gorsuch confirmed.  That was something.</p>
<p>But McConnell has been making a habit of doing the absolute bare minimum he can get away with doing, while working away behind the scenes at his real agenda.  That&#8217;s catching up with him.  The recent omnibus spending bill is a classic example.  So is his active sabotage of GOP candidates in various elections.</p>
<p>McConnell is not as bad as Schumer, but the GOP base has plenty of solid reason to distrust him.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymar Sakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymar Sakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Names starting with &quot;Y&quot; is getting more popular perhaps. The &quot;Y&quot; may soon take over the world, although the crazy already has to a certain extent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Names starting with &#8220;Y&#8221; is getting more popular perhaps. The &#8220;Y&#8221; may soon take over the world, although the crazy already has to a certain extent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384128</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2018 18:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384128</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ymar Sakar Says: 
April 27th, 2018 at 10:05 pm

Begging your pardon -- didn&#039;t look past the Y :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ymar Sakar Says:<br />
April 27th, 2018 at 10:05 pm</p>
<p>Begging your pardon &#8212; didn&#8217;t look past the Y 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymar Sakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384081</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymar Sakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2018 02:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384081</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m also not a Yankee. If a label must be used, it would be Southerner. Although the Southerners say I am not a Southerner because I don&#039;t have their views on Sherman being a Butcher....

It&#039;s okay, being the enemy of the world was part of the contract.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also not a Yankee. If a label must be used, it would be Southerner. Although the Southerners say I am not a Southerner because I don&#8217;t have their views on Sherman being a Butcher&#8230;.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s okay, being the enemy of the world was part of the contract.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymar Sakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384073</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymar Sakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2018 02:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384073</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;First rule of juries: don’t worry about penalties until you decide the verdict.

Obviously, they already assume they know the answer, and it isn’t the one Ymar gave.&lt;/b&gt;

You were replying to Yankee, not me, in case you were doing what I thought you were doing.

Supporters of the Red team will get on my case for dropping a letter off Trum&#039;s name as my personal nickname for him. They&#039;ll start labeling it as an insult and trying to tell me what to think, via some kind of political police thing.

This is how normal neutral people react, in case people had forgotten how to be neutral in Red vs Blue.

I like watching Pine&#039;s self transformation as he realizes what the world is like now.

It&#039;s almost like flash back to 2007 for me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>First rule of juries: don’t worry about penalties until you decide the verdict.</p>
<p>Obviously, they already assume they know the answer, and it isn’t the one Ymar gave.</b></p>
<p>You were replying to Yankee, not me, in case you were doing what I thought you were doing.</p>
<p>Supporters of the Red team will get on my case for dropping a letter off Trum&#8217;s name as my personal nickname for him. They&#8217;ll start labeling it as an insult and trying to tell me what to think, via some kind of political police thing.</p>
<p>This is how normal neutral people react, in case people had forgotten how to be neutral in Red vs Blue.</p>
<p>I like watching Pine&#8217;s self transformation as he realizes what the world is like now.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s almost like flash back to 2007 for me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384049</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384049</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Snow on Pine:

I&#039;ve actually been thinking about that issue lately, and about writing a post (or a book---it&#039;s so long and complicated it could be a book!) about it.

It&#039;s one of the criticisms of the legal system originally mounted by the critical legal studies folks, and of course critical studies is the leftist POV that law is not about legal principles at all but about power, and that there is no truth.  

So I don&#039;t completely agree with the idea that judges come to the conclusions first and then work the reasoning out to get there.  I understand that that&#039;s often the way it looks, but I think there&#039;s a meta-principle of law at work that drives the whole thing, and that could be called a judge&#039;s general &lt;i&gt;legal philosophy&lt;/i&gt;.

Also, sometimes judges rule the opposite of the conclusion they want, because they are trying to follow the law.

It&#039;s very complicated, but that&#039;s the very simplified version.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snow on Pine:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve actually been thinking about that issue lately, and about writing a post (or a book&#8212;it&#8217;s so long and complicated it could be a book!) about it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one of the criticisms of the legal system originally mounted by the critical legal studies folks, and of course critical studies is the leftist POV that law is not about legal principles at all but about power, and that there is no truth.  </p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t completely agree with the idea that judges come to the conclusions first and then work the reasoning out to get there.  I understand that that&#8217;s often the way it looks, but I think there&#8217;s a meta-principle of law at work that drives the whole thing, and that could be called a judge&#8217;s general <i>legal philosophy</i>.</p>
<p>Also, sometimes judges rule the opposite of the conclusion they want, because they are trying to follow the law.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s very complicated, but that&#8217;s the very simplified version.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Snow on Pine		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384048</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snow on Pine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384048</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[American jurisprudence, as we know it today, was profoundly re-routed by Progressive Rosco Pound at Harvard, starting in the early 20th century, when he proposed that instead of working from the Constitution and first principles, judges should practice  “sociological jurisprudence,”  should consider “the public interest,”  “social facts,” and current ideas in their decisions.  

Up until Pound showed up, U.S. legal education was modeled on the English System, and followed the Common Law, and the Constitution–they were the fixed beacons, and what was to be consulted first, and to govern.   

After Pound, more and more it was case law–which enabled judges and lawyers to propose more and more novel legal theories, and to to move further and further away from what the Constitution said, and what our Founders actually intended.  

Thus,  we’ve driven deeper and deeper into the territory of the ”living,” ever changing Constitution.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American jurisprudence, as we know it today, was profoundly re-routed by Progressive Rosco Pound at Harvard, starting in the early 20th century, when he proposed that instead of working from the Constitution and first principles, judges should practice  “sociological jurisprudence,”  should consider “the public interest,”  “social facts,” and current ideas in their decisions.  </p>
<p>Up until Pound showed up, U.S. legal education was modeled on the English System, and followed the Common Law, and the Constitution–they were the fixed beacons, and what was to be consulted first, and to govern.   </p>
<p>After Pound, more and more it was case law–which enabled judges and lawyers to propose more and more novel legal theories, and to to move further and further away from what the Constitution said, and what our Founders actually intended.  </p>
<p>Thus,  we’ve driven deeper and deeper into the territory of the ”living,” ever changing Constitution.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Yankee		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384047</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yankee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384047</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Adding to my earlier comments:

I recall hearing Sonia Sotomayor blathering about the First Amendment during the hearing.  That may indicate what position she will take, and the reasoning she will use, but it will be one that is completely wrong.  She will end up arriving at a decision that has no basis in the law because it leads to the outcome that she wants.  If Justice Sotomayor rules that the First Amendment prohibits the &quot;Muslim ban&quot;, then she will turn the concept of national sovereignty upside down, over-ride every precedent of immigration law and previous examples of restriction of immigration, and will still be completely oblivious to the long-term consequences of such a ruling.  That&#039;s how bad it could get.

As for the mention of Mr. Trump&#039;s various tweets, and how that might indicate antipathy toward Muslims, the Supreme Court has judicial review, but that in no way extends to Twitter posts. A tweet is not the law.  Only the American people can pass judgment on any politician&#039;s tweets, and they already did for Donald Trump, voting for him as President in 2016.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adding to my earlier comments:</p>
<p>I recall hearing Sonia Sotomayor blathering about the First Amendment during the hearing.  That may indicate what position she will take, and the reasoning she will use, but it will be one that is completely wrong.  She will end up arriving at a decision that has no basis in the law because it leads to the outcome that she wants.  If Justice Sotomayor rules that the First Amendment prohibits the &#8220;Muslim ban&#8221;, then she will turn the concept of national sovereignty upside down, over-ride every precedent of immigration law and previous examples of restriction of immigration, and will still be completely oblivious to the long-term consequences of such a ruling.  That&#8217;s how bad it could get.</p>
<p>As for the mention of Mr. Trump&#8217;s various tweets, and how that might indicate antipathy toward Muslims, the Supreme Court has judicial review, but that in no way extends to Twitter posts. A tweet is not the law.  Only the American people can pass judgment on any politician&#8217;s tweets, and they already did for Donald Trump, voting for him as President in 2016.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2018 20:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Snow: cf Alice in Wonderland.

&quot;Sentence first—verdict afterward.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snow: cf Alice in Wonderland.</p>
<p>&#8220;Sentence first—verdict afterward.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Snow on Pine		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/04/26/scotus-has-been-hearing-arguments-on-the-trump-travel-order/#comment-2384042</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snow on Pine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2018 20:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neoneocon.com/?p=77387#comment-2384042</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One of the things that really bothered me during my one horrible year of law school was the fact that it seemed pretty obvious that the judges in many of the cases we studied--and we used the standard law school textbooks that contained the standard list of cases pretty much everyone studies----had a conclusion/verdict they wanted to reach, and that they (more likely their law clerks) searched around for a decision, case, or line of cases, no matter how obscure, or passed by as the law moved forward in time, because they had not been viewed as sensible, well-argued, or logical--that they could cite as a reason for their decision.      

So, the game was, first, come to your conclusion, then, hunt around for a line of cases or a particular decision you could hook up with to justify that conclusion.   

It could be very tenuous, it didn&#039;t have to be logical, just switch that ol&#039; legal train onto a new line of track, and head off in a new direction.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the things that really bothered me during my one horrible year of law school was the fact that it seemed pretty obvious that the judges in many of the cases we studied&#8211;and we used the standard law school textbooks that contained the standard list of cases pretty much everyone studies&#8212;-had a conclusion/verdict they wanted to reach, and that they (more likely their law clerks) searched around for a decision, case, or line of cases, no matter how obscure, or passed by as the law moved forward in time, because they had not been viewed as sensible, well-argued, or logical&#8211;that they could cite as a reason for their decision.      </p>
<p>So, the game was, first, come to your conclusion, then, hunt around for a line of cases or a particular decision you could hook up with to justify that conclusion.   </p>
<p>It could be very tenuous, it didn&#8217;t have to be logical, just switch that ol&#8217; legal train onto a new line of track, and head off in a new direction.</p>
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