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	Comments on: What did Trump mean by &#8220;Take the firearms first&#8230;&#8221;?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2374636</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2018 06:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2374636</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Geoffrey Britain Says: 
March 2nd, 2018 at 12:40 am

This issue for the left is solely an opportunity to ratchet society a step closer to their goal of a disarmed populace. 
* * *
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2017/10/gun-rights-cake-analogy.html

Lawdog here is kvetching about the way nifty posts get plagiarized on the interwebz, but he does link to this earlier post which actually contains the analogy, along with some history and general snarking:

https://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-repost.html

&quot;Let&#039;s say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with &quot;GUN RIGHTS&quot; written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, &quot;Give me that cake.&quot;

I say, &quot;No, it&#039;s my cake.&quot;

You say, &quot;Let&#039;s compromise. Give me half.&quot; I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.

Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.

This leaves me with half of my cake and there I am, enjoying my cake when you walk back up and say, &quot;Give me that cake.&quot;

I say -- again: &quot;No, it&#039;s my cake.&quot;

You say, &quot;Let&#039;s compromise.&quot; What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what&#039;s left of the cake I already own.

So, we compromise -- let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 -- and this time I&#039;m left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.

And I&#039;m sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.

This time you take several bites -- we&#039;ll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders -- and I&#039;m left with about a tenth of what has always been MY DAMN CAKE and you&#039;ve got nine-tenths of it. 

 Let me restate that: I started out with MY CAKE and you have already &#039;compromised&#039; me out of ninety percent of MY CAKE ...

... and here you come again. Compromise! ... Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble). Compromise! ... The HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble). Compromise! ... The Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM). Compromise! ... The School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)

After every one of these &quot;compromises&quot; -- in which I lose rights and you lose NOTHING -- I&#039;m left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you&#039;re standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being &quot;reasonable&quot;, and wondering &quot;why we won&#039;t compromise&quot; as you try for the rest of my cake.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoffrey Britain Says:<br />
March 2nd, 2018 at 12:40 am</p>
<p>This issue for the left is solely an opportunity to ratchet society a step closer to their goal of a disarmed populace.<br />
* * *<br />
<a href="http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2017/10/gun-rights-cake-analogy.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2017/10/gun-rights-cake-analogy.html</a></p>
<p>Lawdog here is kvetching about the way nifty posts get plagiarized on the interwebz, but he does link to this earlier post which actually contains the analogy, along with some history and general snarking:</p>
<p><a href="https://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-repost.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-repost.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Let&#8217;s say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with &#8220;GUN RIGHTS&#8221; written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, &#8220;Give me that cake.&#8221;</p>
<p>I say, &#8220;No, it&#8217;s my cake.&#8221;</p>
<p>You say, &#8220;Let&#8217;s compromise. Give me half.&#8221; I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.</p>
<p>Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.</p>
<p>This leaves me with half of my cake and there I am, enjoying my cake when you walk back up and say, &#8220;Give me that cake.&#8221;</p>
<p>I say &#8212; again: &#8220;No, it&#8217;s my cake.&#8221;</p>
<p>You say, &#8220;Let&#8217;s compromise.&#8221; What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what&#8217;s left of the cake I already own.</p>
<p>So, we compromise &#8212; let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 &#8212; and this time I&#8217;m left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.</p>
<p>This time you take several bites &#8212; we&#8217;ll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders &#8212; and I&#8217;m left with about a tenth of what has always been MY DAMN CAKE and you&#8217;ve got nine-tenths of it. </p>
<p> Let me restate that: I started out with MY CAKE and you have already &#8216;compromised&#8217; me out of ninety percent of MY CAKE &#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230; and here you come again. Compromise! &#8230; Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble). Compromise! &#8230; The HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble). Compromise! &#8230; The Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM). Compromise! &#8230; The School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)</p>
<p>After every one of these &#8220;compromises&#8221; &#8212; in which I lose rights and you lose NOTHING &#8212; I&#8217;m left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you&#8217;re standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being &#8220;reasonable&#8221;, and wondering &#8220;why we won&#8217;t compromise&#8221; as you try for the rest of my cake.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Murin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2374024</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Murin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 23:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2374024</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[People react like Trump is a dictator. Really - so what if he says that due process comes later? That isn&#039;t the law and doesn&#039;t become so because he says so. Even if it did somehow - who is going to enforce it? Contrast this to illegal immigration (like some have) and marijuana laws. The state and local authorities are not going to enforce the laws. They are not legally obligated to enforce Federal law. What laws would they be? Most gun laws are state laws and the procedures concerning mental health are state laws, etc. I actually think this debate could shed some light on the due process issues with the No Fly List and the claim that it should be used to bar gun purchases.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People react like Trump is a dictator. Really &#8211; so what if he says that due process comes later? That isn&#8217;t the law and doesn&#8217;t become so because he says so. Even if it did somehow &#8211; who is going to enforce it? Contrast this to illegal immigration (like some have) and marijuana laws. The state and local authorities are not going to enforce the laws. They are not legally obligated to enforce Federal law. What laws would they be? Most gun laws are state laws and the procedures concerning mental health are state laws, etc. I actually think this debate could shed some light on the due process issues with the No Fly List and the claim that it should be used to bar gun purchases.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373853</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 18:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373853</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To Manju:

The Obama Recovery Inheritance?

Surely you jest........]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Manju:</p>
<p>The Obama Recovery Inheritance?</p>
<p>Surely you jest&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymar Sakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373799</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymar Sakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 16:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373799</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Trum is just sounding out the room, the way people like me do when testing people. He won&#039;t make an actual final decision until he figures out what is going on. This is similar to Bush II&#039;s method, although Trum relies on his charisma and people manipulation skills rather than Bush&#039;s IQ.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trum is just sounding out the room, the way people like me do when testing people. He won&#8217;t make an actual final decision until he figures out what is going on. This is similar to Bush II&#8217;s method, although Trum relies on his charisma and people manipulation skills rather than Bush&#8217;s IQ.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lurch		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373732</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lurch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 14:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373732</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[An heiress? The Trumphaters are really confused about gender. Manju, do you know which bathroom to use?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An heiress? The Trumphaters are really confused about gender. Manju, do you know which bathroom to use?</p>
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		<title>
		By: dexiansheng		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373582</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dexiansheng]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 06:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373582</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Concerning tariffs, I&#039;m a free trader. He makes an argument on national security grounds, which I&#039;m willing to consider. But the Secretary of Defense doesn&#039;t seemed to thrilled about this. 

I think it could go really bad. The economy is doing fine, that&#039;s people&#039;s top concern. Democrats can&#039;t talk about anything but Dreamers and Guns. Now we&#039;ve gone and given them a potentially powerful wedge issue.

We&#039;ll just have to wait and see. I know what theory tells us, but one can hope. And it&#039;s not like anyone can say this is a complete surprise. He&#039;s always been very vocal about this. Hopefully China doesn&#039;t respond by deporting me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning tariffs, I&#8217;m a free trader. He makes an argument on national security grounds, which I&#8217;m willing to consider. But the Secretary of Defense doesn&#8217;t seemed to thrilled about this. </p>
<p>I think it could go really bad. The economy is doing fine, that&#8217;s people&#8217;s top concern. Democrats can&#8217;t talk about anything but Dreamers and Guns. Now we&#8217;ve gone and given them a potentially powerful wedge issue.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll just have to wait and see. I know what theory tells us, but one can hope. And it&#8217;s not like anyone can say this is a complete surprise. He&#8217;s always been very vocal about this. Hopefully China doesn&#8217;t respond by deporting me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Manju		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373579</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Manju]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 05:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373579</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[He doesn&#039;t mean anything by it. He&#039;s just a scatterbrained celebrity and heiress, like Paris Hilton.

That&#039;s why his major accomplishment is an inheritance: The Obama Recovery. Hopefully he doesn&#039;t screw this inheritance up like he did his last one.  The last thing we need is  anti-capitalist America-first neo-marxist protectionism. 

But I doubt he&#039;ll do anything on that front either. Don&#039;t worry. Be Happy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He doesn&#8217;t mean anything by it. He&#8217;s just a scatterbrained celebrity and heiress, like Paris Hilton.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why his major accomplishment is an inheritance: The Obama Recovery. Hopefully he doesn&#8217;t screw this inheritance up like he did his last one.  The last thing we need is  anti-capitalist America-first neo-marxist protectionism. </p>
<p>But I doubt he&#8217;ll do anything on that front either. Don&#8217;t worry. Be Happy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Britain		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373577</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Britain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 05:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373577</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The optimism by some that a sincere attempt will be made at objectivity with proper respect for the Constitutional rights of someone  accused of mental instability are quite frankly, laughable when the liberal left&#039;s attitude toward guns, disregard for the rule of law and dismissal of the Constitution is considered. 

This issue for the left is solely an opportunity to ratchet society a step closer to their goal of a disarmed populace. The left is cynically using the decency of those on the right and well meaning liberals and their concern for children&#039;s safety to further their agenda of officially approved guns only being in the hands of the government. Look to Europe for the future they envision and then look to Europe&#039;s &quot;no-go zones&quot; that are metasticizing for the future they are creating.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The optimism by some that a sincere attempt will be made at objectivity with proper respect for the Constitutional rights of someone  accused of mental instability are quite frankly, laughable when the liberal left&#8217;s attitude toward guns, disregard for the rule of law and dismissal of the Constitution is considered. </p>
<p>This issue for the left is solely an opportunity to ratchet society a step closer to their goal of a disarmed populace. The left is cynically using the decency of those on the right and well meaning liberals and their concern for children&#8217;s safety to further their agenda of officially approved guns only being in the hands of the government. Look to Europe for the future they envision and then look to Europe&#8217;s &#8220;no-go zones&#8221; that are metasticizing for the future they are creating.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373572</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 05:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373572</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree that Trump&#039;s words were imprecise and have been taken out of context and misinterpreted.  Trump supporters such as Laura  Ingraham and others  are now labeling him a sellout gun grabber.

Because virtually every mass shooting has been committed by a mentally unstable person, the goal is to identify them and stop them before they act. Since most of these shooters were identified by at least  a few people before they  acted, it seems a worthy  goal to attempt.

These Gun Violence Restraining Orders (GVROs) must be carefully crafted by lawyers, mental health experts, and law enforcement. Well thought out criteria - aggressiveness, cruelty to animals, threats, obsessive about guns, etc. These are just my inept attempts to try to identify characteristics of those who could be dangerous. Experts would be much more precise and spell out the traits in more detail. Procedures could be crafted from the report by a concerned citizen, interview, detention, gun removal, further evaluation, and adjudication of the person&#039;s fate. Certainly, any detention or restricting of firearms  should be temporary and involve mental health evaluation by a qualified psychiatrist - not a social worker. The law must also spell out  what  happens if the subject is  found  to be mentally impaired and too dangerous to be released into society, guns or not. We must assume that some of these cases would involve people who should not be loose in society. Most  would, hopefully, be treatable and  able to be habilitated, but some might  be treatable but unable to own  firearms. 

I look  at GVROs as a  cautionary action to prevent mentally ill, dangerous people from carrying out a mass shooting. IMO, it&#039;s worth a try - at least in a few states to see how it works. Careful evaluation would be necessary, and if the process is abused, it could be modified or ended.

Anyway, I&#039;m not concerned about Trump taking our  guns away.  I&#039;m more concerned about tariffs. Those he can do without Congress. We don&#039;t know how the new tariffs on steel and aluminum will damage trade, but I&#039;m not optimistic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Trump&#8217;s words were imprecise and have been taken out of context and misinterpreted.  Trump supporters such as Laura  Ingraham and others  are now labeling him a sellout gun grabber.</p>
<p>Because virtually every mass shooting has been committed by a mentally unstable person, the goal is to identify them and stop them before they act. Since most of these shooters were identified by at least  a few people before they  acted, it seems a worthy  goal to attempt.</p>
<p>These Gun Violence Restraining Orders (GVROs) must be carefully crafted by lawyers, mental health experts, and law enforcement. Well thought out criteria &#8211; aggressiveness, cruelty to animals, threats, obsessive about guns, etc. These are just my inept attempts to try to identify characteristics of those who could be dangerous. Experts would be much more precise and spell out the traits in more detail. Procedures could be crafted from the report by a concerned citizen, interview, detention, gun removal, further evaluation, and adjudication of the person&#8217;s fate. Certainly, any detention or restricting of firearms  should be temporary and involve mental health evaluation by a qualified psychiatrist &#8211; not a social worker. The law must also spell out  what  happens if the subject is  found  to be mentally impaired and too dangerous to be released into society, guns or not. We must assume that some of these cases would involve people who should not be loose in society. Most  would, hopefully, be treatable and  able to be habilitated, but some might  be treatable but unable to own  firearms. </p>
<p>I look  at GVROs as a  cautionary action to prevent mentally ill, dangerous people from carrying out a mass shooting. IMO, it&#8217;s worth a try &#8211; at least in a few states to see how it works. Careful evaluation would be necessary, and if the process is abused, it could be modified or ended.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m not concerned about Trump taking our  guns away.  I&#8217;m more concerned about tariffs. Those he can do without Congress. We don&#8217;t know how the new tariffs on steel and aluminum will damage trade, but I&#8217;m not optimistic.</p>
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		By: dexiansheng		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/03/01/what-did-trump-mean-by-take-the-firearms-first/#comment-2373551</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dexiansheng]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2018 03:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75998#comment-2373551</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I take your point. I think it must be very technical. I checked out the entry for due process over at the Legal Information Institute. I was surprised to find this idea of &quot;the new property&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take your point. I think it must be very technical. I checked out the entry for due process over at the Legal Information Institute. I was surprised to find this idea of &#8220;the new property&#8221;.</p>
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