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	Comments on: First we had &#8220;Clinton and Co. paid for the dossier.&#8221; Now we have&#8230;	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2018 03:48:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Ymar Sakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363415</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymar Sakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2018 03:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363415</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Trolls stopped arguing with me awhile ago. There&#039;s always the professional zombies from Soros, they never give up though, but that&#039;s on other sites.

I think because out of the 2-5 people here that might respond, I am the most difficult to comprehend and the most difficult to respond to with any predictive analysis model of their AI scripts. So in threads where others have responded like normal people, the investigative Leftists would respond to them and just ignore me.

Which is a wise strategy, because the moment they start it with me, their entire psychic sea will be unchained and derailed from the complete area of whatever it was they really wanted to talk about.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trolls stopped arguing with me awhile ago. There&#8217;s always the professional zombies from Soros, they never give up though, but that&#8217;s on other sites.</p>
<p>I think because out of the 2-5 people here that might respond, I am the most difficult to comprehend and the most difficult to respond to with any predictive analysis model of their AI scripts. So in threads where others have responded like normal people, the investigative Leftists would respond to them and just ignore me.</p>
<p>Which is a wise strategy, because the moment they start it with me, their entire psychic sea will be unchained and derailed from the complete area of whatever it was they really wanted to talk about.</p>
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		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2018 05:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, that was an interesting dialogue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that was an interesting dialogue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363137</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 19:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363137</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan: 

Yes, it&#039;s a common ploy of trolls (and hostile interviewers) to misunderstand and misconstrue the meaning of statements, forcing the other person to explain and re-explain and clarify again and again and again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.
_____________________________________]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan: </p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s a common ploy of trolls (and hostile interviewers) to misunderstand and misconstrue the meaning of statements, forcing the other person to explain and re-explain and clarify again and again and again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.<br />
_____________________________________</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363135</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 18:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363135</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Chris:

So, you mean to suggest that, when you bring up a subject I&#039;ve already written about at length when the news came out (Donald Trump Jr. and &quot;I love it,&quot; for example), if I don&#039;t write another post about it right now exactly to your specifications, and express some sort of empathy for those who find that utterance of Trump Jr.&#039;s abominable, I am somehow at fault? When the Donald Jr. story broke, I wrote a couple of posts about it; the most comprehensive one was &lt;a href=&quot;http://neoneocon.com/2017/07/11/the-collusion-story-marches-on/&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.

As I already indicated, sometimes I decide to engage in a &quot;conversation&quot; with a troll because I find that sometimes trolls raise issues that I&#039;d like to expound upon.  So I&#039;ll respond to a few things you raised (even though that&#039;s feeding the troll) and say that I do feel that it&#039;s possible that my political change may have moved me closer to the political center of this country right now (although it&#039;s a center that keeps shifting).  But I couldn&#039;t care less and it is of zero importance to me where I stand in terms of the majority of people. My political position is not about how many people agree with me or how centrist I am. I follow where my learning, observations, and thinking take me.  

It&#039;s also somewhat laughable that you think that this blog may be a case of me &quot;trolling the &#039;liberals who surround&#039;&quot; me.  The vast majority (perhaps even all) of the liberals who surround me, many of whom know that I write this blog, never read it except when I send them links to the non-political pieces in it, the more personal or arts-oriented posts that I think they might enjoy.  

As far as my previous understanding of liberalism goes---if you actually read my posts on my experience over the decades with politics, you might have noted that I&#039;ve said I was not especially politically interested when I was younger, maybe about average. In my teens and 20s through 40s particularly, I was a liberal more by default in those years than through any especially comprehensive political philosophy. Back then I spent more of my time in pursuits other than politics, particularly literature and dance, as well as psychology.  At the time (pre-internet) I got my news through only liberal sources such as the &lt;i&gt;NY Times&lt;/i&gt; and the &lt;i&gt;Boston Globe&lt;/i&gt;.  Then, after I became far more interested in politics and in the underpinnings of politics as well, I read and listened to and engaged more with the thinking on &lt;i&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; sides, conservative and liberal as well.  So not only did I learn more about politics and history in general, and learned a great deal more about conservatism, I learned a great deal more about liberals and leftists, too.

You say that my &quot;primary mode of attack seems to be focused on&quot; your &quot;supposed lack of decorum.&quot; I never said that; au contraire, actually.  This is how I addressed that question:  

&lt;blockquote&gt;Among other things, trolls like to demand that a person (another commenter or the blogger) spend incredible amounts of time answering every single question the troll might raise. That’s ordinarily part of a troll’s goals (that is, the sort of troll who is on the surface polite rather than obscene)–to get people to keep spending a lot of time when they’ve already given some links on a topic, or referred that person to their previous writings.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That was in response to you.  So as a troll, you are: &quot;the sort of troll who is on the surface polite.&quot;  You have exhibited no lack of decorum whatsoever.  However, I also called your remarks &quot;snide,&quot; and that&#039;s what &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/snide&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;they are&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;derogatory or mocking in an indirect way&quot; (although over time you&#039;ve gotten more direct about it).  And of course, if you&#039;re going to come to a blog and immediately be snide and troll-like, you&#039;re going to be met with snideness from others, at &lt;i&gt;best&lt;/i&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris:</p>
<p>So, you mean to suggest that, when you bring up a subject I&#8217;ve already written about at length when the news came out (Donald Trump Jr. and &#8220;I love it,&#8221; for example), if I don&#8217;t write another post about it right now exactly to your specifications, and express some sort of empathy for those who find that utterance of Trump Jr.&#8217;s abominable, I am somehow at fault? When the Donald Jr. story broke, I wrote a couple of posts about it; the most comprehensive one was <a href="http://neoneocon.com/2017/07/11/the-collusion-story-marches-on/">this</a>.</p>
<p>As I already indicated, sometimes I decide to engage in a &#8220;conversation&#8221; with a troll because I find that sometimes trolls raise issues that I&#8217;d like to expound upon.  So I&#8217;ll respond to a few things you raised (even though that&#8217;s feeding the troll) and say that I do feel that it&#8217;s possible that my political change may have moved me closer to the political center of this country right now (although it&#8217;s a center that keeps shifting).  But I couldn&#8217;t care less and it is of zero importance to me where I stand in terms of the majority of people. My political position is not about how many people agree with me or how centrist I am. I follow where my learning, observations, and thinking take me.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also somewhat laughable that you think that this blog may be a case of me &#8220;trolling the &#8216;liberals who surround'&#8221; me.  The vast majority (perhaps even all) of the liberals who surround me, many of whom know that I write this blog, never read it except when I send them links to the non-political pieces in it, the more personal or arts-oriented posts that I think they might enjoy.  </p>
<p>As far as my previous understanding of liberalism goes&#8212;if you actually read my posts on my experience over the decades with politics, you might have noted that I&#8217;ve said I was not especially politically interested when I was younger, maybe about average. In my teens and 20s through 40s particularly, I was a liberal more by default in those years than through any especially comprehensive political philosophy. Back then I spent more of my time in pursuits other than politics, particularly literature and dance, as well as psychology.  At the time (pre-internet) I got my news through only liberal sources such as the <i>NY Times</i> and the <i>Boston Globe</i>.  Then, after I became far more interested in politics and in the underpinnings of politics as well, I read and listened to and engaged more with the thinking on <i>both</i> sides, conservative and liberal as well.  So not only did I learn more about politics and history in general, and learned a great deal more about conservatism, I learned a great deal more about liberals and leftists, too.</p>
<p>You say that my &#8220;primary mode of attack seems to be focused on&#8221; your &#8220;supposed lack of decorum.&#8221; I never said that; au contraire, actually.  This is how I addressed that question:  </p>
<blockquote><p>Among other things, trolls like to demand that a person (another commenter or the blogger) spend incredible amounts of time answering every single question the troll might raise. That’s ordinarily part of a troll’s goals (that is, the sort of troll who is on the surface polite rather than obscene)–to get people to keep spending a lot of time when they’ve already given some links on a topic, or referred that person to their previous writings.</p></blockquote>
<p>That was in response to you.  So as a troll, you are: &#8220;the sort of troll who is on the surface polite.&#8221;  You have exhibited no lack of decorum whatsoever.  However, I also called your remarks &#8220;snide,&#8221; and that&#8217;s what <a href="https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/snide" rel="nofollow">they are</a>: &#8220;derogatory or mocking in an indirect way&#8221; (although over time you&#8217;ve gotten more direct about it).  And of course, if you&#8217;re going to come to a blog and immediately be snide and troll-like, you&#8217;re going to be met with snideness from others, at <i>best</i>.</p>
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		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363121</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 15:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363121</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Chris:

You certainly are a long winded piece of work.  But enough about you, burned any good books lately?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris:</p>
<p>You certainly are a long winded piece of work.  But enough about you, burned any good books lately?</p>
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		<title>
		By: FOAF		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363095</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOAF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 08:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363095</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;darling of Richard Spencer&quot;

Has Spencer ever even met Trump?  Obama repeatedly had a murderous antsemitic hatemonger, Al Sharpton, to the White House for private meetings.  I guess hating Jews is your idea of &quot;class&quot;.  Not to mention the guy who shot Steve Scalise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;darling of Richard Spencer&#8221;</p>
<p>Has Spencer ever even met Trump?  Obama repeatedly had a murderous antsemitic hatemonger, Al Sharpton, to the White House for private meetings.  I guess hating Jews is your idea of &#8220;class&#8221;.  Not to mention the guy who shot Steve Scalise.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363091</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 08:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363091</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[FOAF, you and AesopFan have both made comments to the effect of &quot;Look at how guys like Chris have damaged the Democratic party!&quot;

And yes, I make snide remarks at Neo Neocon, which she returns in kind. (Incidentally, isn&#039;t it time she gets a new moniker? Aside from the fact that she&#039;s no longer &quot;neo&quot; to the movement, the interventionist neoconservatism she talked up in the mid-oughts seems strongly out of fashion in the GOP these days...)

And apparently that&#039;s what makes the Democratic party less attractive than Donald f-ing Trump, darling of Richard Spencer and Milo Yiannapolis, previous employer of Anthony Scaramucci, Steve Bannon and Rob Porter.

Good thing you&#039;re avoiding individuals like me and hanging out with that better class of people in the GOP!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FOAF, you and AesopFan have both made comments to the effect of &#8220;Look at how guys like Chris have damaged the Democratic party!&#8221;</p>
<p>And yes, I make snide remarks at Neo Neocon, which she returns in kind. (Incidentally, isn&#8217;t it time she gets a new moniker? Aside from the fact that she&#8217;s no longer &#8220;neo&#8221; to the movement, the interventionist neoconservatism she talked up in the mid-oughts seems strongly out of fashion in the GOP these days&#8230;)</p>
<p>And apparently that&#8217;s what makes the Democratic party less attractive than Donald f-ing Trump, darling of Richard Spencer and Milo Yiannapolis, previous employer of Anthony Scaramucci, Steve Bannon and Rob Porter.</p>
<p>Good thing you&#8217;re avoiding individuals like me and hanging out with that better class of people in the GOP!</p>
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		By: FOAF		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363084</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOAF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 07:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363084</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What about the fact that Veselnitskaya worked for Fusion GPS, Chris?  Or the fact that the *Clinton* campaign was getting oppo research from Russia? 

&quot;you’ve been doing this for how many years? (Compared to the few hours I’ve spent commenting here…)&quot;

What a nasty, disgusting little creep you are Chris.  Individuals like you are one reason I&#039;m glad I&#039;m a changer like neo.  I voted for Dems most of my life until individuals like you took over the party.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the fact that Veselnitskaya worked for Fusion GPS, Chris?  Or the fact that the *Clinton* campaign was getting oppo research from Russia? </p>
<p>&#8220;you’ve been doing this for how many years? (Compared to the few hours I’ve spent commenting here…)&#8221;</p>
<p>What a nasty, disgusting little creep you are Chris.  Individuals like you are one reason I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m a changer like neo.  I voted for Dems most of my life until individuals like you took over the party.</p>
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		By: Chris		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363074</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 05:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363074</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo-

Some interesting points here! Going through the list:

- Karl Popper is great! I suggest you reread &quot;The Open Society and its Enemies,&quot; and ask yourself into which of those two categories Popper would have placed Trump and his supporters. (Hint: Popper would likely have not been a fan of the alt-right...)

- You spend a &lt;i&gt;lot&lt;/i&gt; of time defending your research process! Obviously I have to take your word on this, although I think a &lt;i&gt;prima facie&lt;/i&gt; reading of &quot;The first one [link I offered] was merely the first one I found when I did a search, not the subject of some sort of definitive post&quot; would not translate to 15 minutes worth of effort... especially for a two-word post containing a single link of dubious quality.  

- &quot;I&#039;m sure you are familiar with how Google works; very rarely is the link one chooses the very first link on Google’s list of offering.&quot; What an odd thing to say! Google&#039;s first offered link is &lt;b&gt;frequently&lt;/b&gt; the most useful and selected link - that&#039;s how the system is built, after all, to offer the most often-clicked links for a given search up top. (That&#039;s not the only factor Google uses, but it&#039;s up there in importance. There&#039;s also vast amounts of computer science research on CTRs, or click-through rates - fascinating stuff!) 

- You seem to have done something of an about face, moving from calling me a troll to saying that engaging trolls - and, by extension, me - is a fascinating exercise for you. I&#039;m... glad, I suppose? 

- More importantly, I&#039;m glad we&#039;re in agreement that we&#039;re verbally jousting for others&#039; enlightenment, rather than hoping to change each others&#039; mind. Although that in turn raises the question of why you&#039;re defending the points you are. I&#039;ve pointed out numerous flaws and limitations in your political arguments, including specific links that undercut points you&#039;ve made quite passionately and forcefully (e.g. the Nunes memo) and your response has been... crickets. But I suppose that in and of itself says something - my primary purpose here is to point out the numerous misleading and flat-out false statements that get put forth (see also your recent post on the Strzok/Page texts) whereas your primary mode of attack seems to be focused on my supposed lack of decorum. 

If that is the case, I fully concede your superiority in maintaining surface-level manners, even as you spread spurious attacks on those Trump opposes.

- You spend a fair amount of time talking up the superiority of &quot;changers&quot;, saying they&#039;re quite familiar with the left and the right. I&#039;d place more confidence in this opinion if the posts you&#039;ve written regarding your political transition didn&#039;t betray a rather naive understanding of liberalism to begin with - you seem to have never heard of concepts like &quot;Moral Hazard&quot; before your conversion to conservatism, much less aware of the liberal counter-arguments to it. And you certainly don&#039;t write front page posts as if you have the slightest inkling of why, for example, someone might find Trump Jr.&#039;s &quot;I love it&quot; response to receiving intel from a foreign power repugnant.

Of course, there&#039;s an alternative explanation - that you are familiar with how liberals think, and say the things you do, such as bemoaning the terrible injustices visited on a man who &quot;wanted his own guys running Trump&#039;s Justice Department&quot; because you are trolling the &quot;liberals who surround you&quot;, as you say in your front-page bio. You say you can&#039;t imagine wasting your time doing what trolls do... but you&#039;ve been doing this for how many years? (Compared to the few hours I&#039;ve spent commenting here...) And do you feel your work has been moving you closer to the political center of the country, or farther away?

Perhaps we can answer that last question in the aftermath of the 2018 and 2020 elections!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo-</p>
<p>Some interesting points here! Going through the list:</p>
<p>&#8211; Karl Popper is great! I suggest you reread &#8220;The Open Society and its Enemies,&#8221; and ask yourself into which of those two categories Popper would have placed Trump and his supporters. (Hint: Popper would likely have not been a fan of the alt-right&#8230;)</p>
<p>&#8211; You spend a <i>lot</i> of time defending your research process! Obviously I have to take your word on this, although I think a <i>prima facie</i> reading of &#8220;The first one [link I offered] was merely the first one I found when I did a search, not the subject of some sort of definitive post&#8221; would not translate to 15 minutes worth of effort&#8230; especially for a two-word post containing a single link of dubious quality.  </p>
<p>&#8211; &#8220;I&#8217;m sure you are familiar with how Google works; very rarely is the link one chooses the very first link on Google’s list of offering.&#8221; What an odd thing to say! Google&#8217;s first offered link is <b>frequently</b> the most useful and selected link &#8211; that&#8217;s how the system is built, after all, to offer the most often-clicked links for a given search up top. (That&#8217;s not the only factor Google uses, but it&#8217;s up there in importance. There&#8217;s also vast amounts of computer science research on CTRs, or click-through rates &#8211; fascinating stuff!) </p>
<p>&#8211; You seem to have done something of an about face, moving from calling me a troll to saying that engaging trolls &#8211; and, by extension, me &#8211; is a fascinating exercise for you. I&#8217;m&#8230; glad, I suppose? </p>
<p>&#8211; More importantly, I&#8217;m glad we&#8217;re in agreement that we&#8217;re verbally jousting for others&#8217; enlightenment, rather than hoping to change each others&#8217; mind. Although that in turn raises the question of why you&#8217;re defending the points you are. I&#8217;ve pointed out numerous flaws and limitations in your political arguments, including specific links that undercut points you&#8217;ve made quite passionately and forcefully (e.g. the Nunes memo) and your response has been&#8230; crickets. But I suppose that in and of itself says something &#8211; my primary purpose here is to point out the numerous misleading and flat-out false statements that get put forth (see also your recent post on the Strzok/Page texts) whereas your primary mode of attack seems to be focused on my supposed lack of decorum. </p>
<p>If that is the case, I fully concede your superiority in maintaining surface-level manners, even as you spread spurious attacks on those Trump opposes.</p>
<p>&#8211; You spend a fair amount of time talking up the superiority of &#8220;changers&#8221;, saying they&#8217;re quite familiar with the left and the right. I&#8217;d place more confidence in this opinion if the posts you&#8217;ve written regarding your political transition didn&#8217;t betray a rather naive understanding of liberalism to begin with &#8211; you seem to have never heard of concepts like &#8220;Moral Hazard&#8221; before your conversion to conservatism, much less aware of the liberal counter-arguments to it. And you certainly don&#8217;t write front page posts as if you have the slightest inkling of why, for example, someone might find Trump Jr.&#8217;s &#8220;I love it&#8221; response to receiving intel from a foreign power repugnant.</p>
<p>Of course, there&#8217;s an alternative explanation &#8211; that you are familiar with how liberals think, and say the things you do, such as bemoaning the terrible injustices visited on a man who &#8220;wanted his own guys running Trump&#8217;s Justice Department&#8221; because you are trolling the &#8220;liberals who surround you&#8221;, as you say in your front-page bio. You say you can&#8217;t imagine wasting your time doing what trolls do&#8230; but you&#8217;ve been doing this for how many years? (Compared to the few hours I&#8217;ve spent commenting here&#8230;) And do you feel your work has been moving you closer to the political center of the country, or farther away?</p>
<p>Perhaps we can answer that last question in the aftermath of the 2018 and 2020 elections!</p>
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		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2018/02/05/first-we-had-clinton-and-co-paid-for-the-dossier-now-we-have/#comment-2363042</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2018 02:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=75415#comment-2363042</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo:

You continue to be wise, patient, and gracious.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo:</p>
<p>You continue to be wise, patient, and gracious.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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