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	Comments on: Students, put those laptops away if you want to learn more	</title>
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		<title>
		By: GRA		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2308593</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GRA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2017 19:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2308593</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Frederick: &quot;Like most educational innovations, there’s been no evidence that this works better. And students complain no matter what you do with lecture time.&quot;

My high school has moved to a STEM program (it&#039;ll probably become STEAM with &quot;A&quot; being arts) for two reasons. The first being the job market (I recently heard the same reasoning for STEM programs in my city&#039;s public school system) and, the second, that it&#039;s believed that it will increase critical thinking and problem solving within project based assignments. There&#039;s a lot of talk from the president of the high school on how great it is, and I don&#039;t doubt that it has its benefits, but given how my high school is presenting it the curriculum seems so one sided that any parents looking for a balanced curriculum would just smile, walk away, and search elsewhere.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Frederick: &#8220;Like most educational innovations, there’s been no evidence that this works better. And students complain no matter what you do with lecture time.&#8221;</p>
<p>My high school has moved to a STEM program (it&#8217;ll probably become STEAM with &#8220;A&#8221; being arts) for two reasons. The first being the job market (I recently heard the same reasoning for STEM programs in my city&#8217;s public school system) and, the second, that it&#8217;s believed that it will increase critical thinking and problem solving within project based assignments. There&#8217;s a lot of talk from the president of the high school on how great it is, and I don&#8217;t doubt that it has its benefits, but given how my high school is presenting it the curriculum seems so one sided that any parents looking for a balanced curriculum would just smile, walk away, and search elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>
		By: GRA		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2308507</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GRA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2308507</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I find myself memorizing and understanding concepts better when I take notes. The downside to taking notes on a computer, for  me, is when essay form exams come around and I struggle in expression since I have gotten use to expressing myself on a digital format. I somewhat want to rectify this issue in investing in a typewriter; that way I&#039;m forced to take my time and relearn how to &quot;think on my feet&quot; when it comes to handwritten expression.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find myself memorizing and understanding concepts better when I take notes. The downside to taking notes on a computer, for  me, is when essay form exams come around and I struggle in expression since I have gotten use to expressing myself on a digital format. I somewhat want to rectify this issue in investing in a typewriter; that way I&#8217;m forced to take my time and relearn how to &#8220;think on my feet&#8221; when it comes to handwritten expression.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gringo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295747</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gringo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295747</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I find  digital applications to traditional  learning to be six of one, half a dozen of the other. 

Laptop note taking for STEM classes is useless, as the various equations and diagrams used in STEM lectures are much easier to write by hand. 

Regarding auditory versus visual learning, note taking for STEM classes was rather easy, as it generally  consisted of writing down what the professor put in the chalkboard. Like Neo, I am not a pure auditory learner, so don&#039;t react so well to pure talkers.

When I went back to school for a second career in my 40s, I encountered some STEM profs who wrote very little down, expecting the student to pluck the equation of out mid-air, as it were. There was a math prof who sped through the lecture, writing down  on the board much less than the average math prof. Ten to fifteen minutes before the class ended, he finished the lecture to open up for questions. My unspoken response was that had the prof written all the important stuff down, there wouldn&#039;t be so many questions. Rest assured that I didn&#039;t enroll in those STEM classes with more talk than chalk.  :)

Regarding not understanding a STEM lecture the first time, my experience was that if I was being exposed to the material the first time, I didn&#039;t really understand it. I needed to go over the material after class- lecture notes and problems.

I am reminded of a Thermo prof who was very curt to students who went to his office with questions. &quot;What&#039;s the matter, you didn&#039;t go over my lectures?&quot; His lectures were impeccably organized. The prof was correct: if you went over his lecture notes after class, they would sink in a lot better.

But in support of digital stuff,  I found writing  &lt;b&gt;much&lt;/b&gt; easier on a computer screen than I did on paper.  Spelling/typographical errors were much easier to correct on a computer screen than on a piece of typing paper. 

In comparing writing on a computer screen versus handwriting, I came to the same conclusion. Part of the issue was that from elementary school on teachers had complained about my handwriting. What few pieces I later saw of my elementary school writing showed many examples of erased words- which were most likely attempts to make the handwriting more legible. Which made writing a pain. 

Ironically, in recent years, I have gotten a number of compliments on the appearance of my handwriting. Rest assured I have made no attempts to make my handwriting more legible, which makes those compliments a surprise to me.

Neo&#039;s point about writing poetry is well taken. Poetry is slow. Best to write by hand.

I had never seen the Cornell note-taking procedure. That reminds me of a comment a friend made while sitting in on a Statics class with me. While I was taking notes, making sure that all that was on the board was in my notebook, my friend pointed out that I was also doodling. Mostly geometric designs. As if my hand had to be doing something all the time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find  digital applications to traditional  learning to be six of one, half a dozen of the other. </p>
<p>Laptop note taking for STEM classes is useless, as the various equations and diagrams used in STEM lectures are much easier to write by hand. </p>
<p>Regarding auditory versus visual learning, note taking for STEM classes was rather easy, as it generally  consisted of writing down what the professor put in the chalkboard. Like Neo, I am not a pure auditory learner, so don&#8217;t react so well to pure talkers.</p>
<p>When I went back to school for a second career in my 40s, I encountered some STEM profs who wrote very little down, expecting the student to pluck the equation of out mid-air, as it were. There was a math prof who sped through the lecture, writing down  on the board much less than the average math prof. Ten to fifteen minutes before the class ended, he finished the lecture to open up for questions. My unspoken response was that had the prof written all the important stuff down, there wouldn&#8217;t be so many questions. Rest assured that I didn&#8217;t enroll in those STEM classes with more talk than chalk.  🙂</p>
<p>Regarding not understanding a STEM lecture the first time, my experience was that if I was being exposed to the material the first time, I didn&#8217;t really understand it. I needed to go over the material after class- lecture notes and problems.</p>
<p>I am reminded of a Thermo prof who was very curt to students who went to his office with questions. &#8220;What&#8217;s the matter, you didn&#8217;t go over my lectures?&#8221; His lectures were impeccably organized. The prof was correct: if you went over his lecture notes after class, they would sink in a lot better.</p>
<p>But in support of digital stuff,  I found writing  <b>much</b> easier on a computer screen than I did on paper.  Spelling/typographical errors were much easier to correct on a computer screen than on a piece of typing paper. </p>
<p>In comparing writing on a computer screen versus handwriting, I came to the same conclusion. Part of the issue was that from elementary school on teachers had complained about my handwriting. What few pieces I later saw of my elementary school writing showed many examples of erased words- which were most likely attempts to make the handwriting more legible. Which made writing a pain. </p>
<p>Ironically, in recent years, I have gotten a number of compliments on the appearance of my handwriting. Rest assured I have made no attempts to make my handwriting more legible, which makes those compliments a surprise to me.</p>
<p>Neo&#8217;s point about writing poetry is well taken. Poetry is slow. Best to write by hand.</p>
<p>I had never seen the Cornell note-taking procedure. That reminds me of a comment a friend made while sitting in on a Statics class with me. While I was taking notes, making sure that all that was on the board was in my notebook, my friend pointed out that I was also doodling. Mostly geometric designs. As if my hand had to be doing something all the time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295195</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 04:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295195</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One of the greatest chess coaches in the world is Artur Yusupov, also a world champion candidate in his heyday.  Yusupov offers a brilliant nine-volume set chess course, which distills the wisdom of the incomparable Soviet chess training system. 

In this course Yusupov explicitly demands the student refrain from computers in any form and do all work by hand -- that is with a real chessboard and real chess pieces and a real pen/pencil and paper.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the greatest chess coaches in the world is Artur Yusupov, also a world champion candidate in his heyday.  Yusupov offers a brilliant nine-volume set chess course, which distills the wisdom of the incomparable Soviet chess training system. </p>
<p>In this course Yusupov explicitly demands the student refrain from computers in any form and do all work by hand &#8212; that is with a real chessboard and real chess pieces and a real pen/pencil and paper.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 03:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Like neo I never got the hang of the conventional lecture format while in college. 

I figured if they really had good stuff to say, why didn&#039;t they write it down, xerox it, hand the pages out in class and save me 45 minutes or so of trouble.

Last week I finished the online MIT Calculus I course. I took scrupulous notes Cornell-style and it made a difference. I didn&#039;t review the notes as often as I should have, but I did review them and they were coherent, cognitive boosts.

Here&#039;s &quot;The Cornell Note-taking System&quot; from the horse&#039;s mouth, i.e. Cornell U., not Vanderleun&#039;s website.

http://lsc.cornell.edu/study-skills/cornell-note-taking-system/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like neo I never got the hang of the conventional lecture format while in college. </p>
<p>I figured if they really had good stuff to say, why didn&#8217;t they write it down, xerox it, hand the pages out in class and save me 45 minutes or so of trouble.</p>
<p>Last week I finished the online MIT Calculus I course. I took scrupulous notes Cornell-style and it made a difference. I didn&#8217;t review the notes as often as I should have, but I did review them and they were coherent, cognitive boosts.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s &#8220;The Cornell Note-taking System&#8221; from the horse&#8217;s mouth, i.e. Cornell U., not Vanderleun&#8217;s website.</p>
<p><a href="http://lsc.cornell.edu/study-skills/cornell-note-taking-system/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://lsc.cornell.edu/study-skills/cornell-note-taking-system/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Jim		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295124</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295124</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[While I skipped my share or dozed, I always felt lectures were extremely important because those guys knew their stuff and it was an hour devoted to pointing out the important stuff, the relationships between facts, the how, when, where.  Then go back to your dorm or home, read the texts, learn it and put it together yourself.  Loved learning.  At 75, still do.  Love word processors, calculators, etc. also.  Time savers.  They increase efficiency.  Much faster than hand writing, much faster to correct, strike out, redo, re-write, whatever.  Allows more time for thinking and being creative.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I skipped my share or dozed, I always felt lectures were extremely important because those guys knew their stuff and it was an hour devoted to pointing out the important stuff, the relationships between facts, the how, when, where.  Then go back to your dorm or home, read the texts, learn it and put it together yourself.  Loved learning.  At 75, still do.  Love word processors, calculators, etc. also.  Time savers.  They increase efficiency.  Much faster than hand writing, much faster to correct, strike out, redo, re-write, whatever.  Allows more time for thinking and being creative.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295054</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 00:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295054</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[vanderleun Says: 
November 28th, 2017 at 3:02 pm
Notes. I always fancied the Cornell Note System.
* * *
Wish I&#039;d know that system 40 years ago, would have helped me a lot.
I&#039;ll start using that when I go to church.
Instead of taking class notes now, I transcribe sermons to stay awake - I&#039;m much like Neo when listening to lectures in any form.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vanderleun Says:<br />
November 28th, 2017 at 3:02 pm<br />
Notes. I always fancied the Cornell Note System.<br />
* * *<br />
Wish I&#8217;d know that system 40 years ago, would have helped me a lot.<br />
I&#8217;ll start using that when I go to church.<br />
Instead of taking class notes now, I transcribe sermons to stay awake &#8211; I&#8217;m much like Neo when listening to lectures in any form.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295051</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 00:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295051</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cap&#039;n Rusty Says: 
November 28th, 2017 at 2:42 pm
I think there’s a corollary to this in math.
* * 
I taught summer school algebra one year and took away the calculators because they didn&#039;t understand the concepts they were trying to calculate.

Isaac Asimov predicted where this electronic dependence would lead eventually:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cap&#8217;n Rusty Says:<br />
November 28th, 2017 at 2:42 pm<br />
I think there’s a corollary to this in math.<br />
* *<br />
I taught summer school algebra one year and took away the calculators because they didn&#8217;t understand the concepts they were trying to calculate.</p>
<p>Isaac Asimov predicted where this electronic dependence would lead eventually:<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 00:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rufus Firefly Says: 
November 28th, 2017 at 3:24 pm
Cap’n Rusty,

My grammar school adopted “new math” when I was there, and that’s the way I learned everything, up through Algebra. My folks hated it, but it was a good fit for me. Rather than drilling tables we were taught concepts.
* * *
I never understood why teachers couldn&#039;t just do both: memorize what needs instant recall (times tables) and learn the concepts that make it work.
My oldest son was much like you - he worked very slowly but correctly, and the teacher discovered that he was deriving his multiplication products instead of memorizing them.  He does arcane system processing these days.

Tom Lehrer had the last word on New Math, of course.
I used to sing ithis to my students when we studied base 8 and base 2, but some of them were worried that they couldn&#039;t take notes fast enough and wanted to know if it would be on the quiz.  Sigh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rufus Firefly Says:<br />
November 28th, 2017 at 3:24 pm<br />
Cap’n Rusty,</p>
<p>My grammar school adopted “new math” when I was there, and that’s the way I learned everything, up through Algebra. My folks hated it, but it was a good fit for me. Rather than drilling tables we were taught concepts.<br />
* * *<br />
I never understood why teachers couldn&#8217;t just do both: memorize what needs instant recall (times tables) and learn the concepts that make it work.<br />
My oldest son was much like you &#8211; he worked very slowly but correctly, and the teacher discovered that he was deriving his multiplication products instead of memorizing them.  He does arcane system processing these days.</p>
<p>Tom Lehrer had the last word on New Math, of course.<br />
I used to sing ithis to my students when we studied base 8 and base 2, but some of them were worried that they couldn&#8217;t take notes fast enough and wanted to know if it would be on the quiz.  Sigh.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/11/28/students-put-those-laptops-away-if-you-want-to-learn-more/#comment-2295040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2017 00:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=73445#comment-2295040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I took longhand notes in classes to keep myself awake. Although I never learned official short-hand, I did have time-saving abbreviations and symbols.  I could transcribe lectures almost verbatim, and became very popular until I started charging for copies.

I very much dislike lectures that simply regurgitate the text, and tried not to do that as a teacher (computer programming), but tried to expand on the important points or add current information not in the text, or insights from actually writing programs.

At some point you realize most of the class isn&#039;t reading the text anyway.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took longhand notes in classes to keep myself awake. Although I never learned official short-hand, I did have time-saving abbreviations and symbols.  I could transcribe lectures almost verbatim, and became very popular until I started charging for copies.</p>
<p>I very much dislike lectures that simply regurgitate the text, and tried not to do that as a teacher (computer programming), but tried to expand on the important points or add current information not in the text, or insights from actually writing programs.</p>
<p>At some point you realize most of the class isn&#8217;t reading the text anyway.</p>
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