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	Comments on: GOPcare, version 1.0	</title>
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	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182794</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182794</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[David: 

Hong Kong is about as different from the US as it can be.  It is small, quite homogeneous in its population, and extremely healthy.  So analogies are very difficult to draw.

Flat taxes have been proposed in the US, but have never caught on because they are thought to disproportionately burden the poor. They are especially disfavored among liberals and the left.

&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Hong_Kong&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Looking it up right now&lt;/a&gt;, I see that Hong Kong spends about 17% of its government expenditure on health care, and I &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/downloads/highlights.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;also see that&lt;/a&gt; the figures for the US in 2014 and 2015 show that &quot; the overall share of the U.S. economy devoted to health care spending&quot; in those years was also around 17.8 percent.  About half of that last figure was government spending, both federal and state.  In &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/united_states_total_spending_pie_chart&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this pie chart&lt;/a&gt;, you can see that health care was 22% percent of all government spending, state and federal.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David: </p>
<p>Hong Kong is about as different from the US as it can be.  It is small, quite homogeneous in its population, and extremely healthy.  So analogies are very difficult to draw.</p>
<p>Flat taxes have been proposed in the US, but have never caught on because they are thought to disproportionately burden the poor. They are especially disfavored among liberals and the left.</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Hong_Kong" rel="nofollow">Looking it up right now</a>, I see that Hong Kong spends about 17% of its government expenditure on health care, and I <a href="https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/downloads/highlights.pdf" rel="nofollow">also see that</a> the figures for the US in 2014 and 2015 show that &#8221; the overall share of the U.S. economy devoted to health care spending&#8221; in those years was also around 17.8 percent.  About half of that last figure was government spending, both federal and state.  In <a href="http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/united_states_total_spending_pie_chart" rel="nofollow">this pie chart</a>, you can see that health care was 22% percent of all government spending, state and federal.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182790</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182790</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[being someone who immigrated to America from Hong Kong I do not understand why the Healthcare system in America is so expensive and complicated.  A friend of my father got into a serious car accident and stayed in the hospital for weeks, and you know how much it costed him?  10 USD, that&#039;s it, he had no insurance at all. that bill would have been in the millions if the accident took place in America.  Hong Kong has both a flat tax system (everyone pays 17% rich or poor) and a basically universal healthcare system that costs only 3% of Hong Kong&#039;s GDP, if Hong Kong can do it, why can&#039;t America, which is supposedly the greatest country on earth?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>being someone who immigrated to America from Hong Kong I do not understand why the Healthcare system in America is so expensive and complicated.  A friend of my father got into a serious car accident and stayed in the hospital for weeks, and you know how much it costed him?  10 USD, that&#8217;s it, he had no insurance at all. that bill would have been in the millions if the accident took place in America.  Hong Kong has both a flat tax system (everyone pays 17% rich or poor) and a basically universal healthcare system that costs only 3% of Hong Kong&#8217;s GDP, if Hong Kong can do it, why can&#8217;t America, which is supposedly the greatest country on earth?</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182781</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 20:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182781</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Frog:

Take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://neoneocon.com/2017/03/08/obamacare-and-gopcare-getting-reconciled-with-the-process-of-reconciliation/&quot;&gt;my new post&lt;/a&gt; on the subject.

However, the idea that Brown&#039;s swearing in was delayed until after the vote is incorrect.  His election meant that the reconciliation process had to be used, because he was the vote that could block cloture. The Democrats got &lt;i&gt;around&lt;/i&gt; his election through reconciliation; he was the &lt;i&gt;cause&lt;/i&gt; of reconciliation (not through his own volition).  Reconciliation meant the Democrats could ignore his election.

Brown &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/12/scott-brown/scott-brown-says-opponents-delayed-his-swearing-pa/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;was seated&lt;/a&gt; before the final bill was passed through reconciliation (and even though that link I just gave is from the suspect &quot;politifact,&quot; I remember quite clearly that reconciliation was used to pass the final bill after Brown was seated).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frog:</p>
<p>Take a look at <a href="http://neoneocon.com/2017/03/08/obamacare-and-gopcare-getting-reconciled-with-the-process-of-reconciliation/">my new post</a> on the subject.</p>
<p>However, the idea that Brown&#8217;s swearing in was delayed until after the vote is incorrect.  His election meant that the reconciliation process had to be used, because he was the vote that could block cloture. The Democrats got <i>around</i> his election through reconciliation; he was the <i>cause</i> of reconciliation (not through his own volition).  Reconciliation meant the Democrats could ignore his election.</p>
<p>Brown <a href="http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/12/scott-brown/scott-brown-says-opponents-delayed-his-swearing-pa/" rel="nofollow">was seated</a> before the final bill was passed through reconciliation (and even though that link I just gave is from the suspect &#8220;politifact,&#8221; I remember quite clearly that reconciliation was used to pass the final bill after Brown was seated).</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182779</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 20:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182779</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Montage:

Oh, there are plenty of valid reasons to dislike the bill, on &lt;i&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; sides.  I didn&#039;t mean to imply that kneejerk objection was the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; reason Democrats would object.  Obviously, Republicans and the Democrats disagree on health care; that&#039;s a given.  

But Democrats would object to any bill the GOP proposed, and that is &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; true.  There is little doubt in my mind about that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Montage:</p>
<p>Oh, there are plenty of valid reasons to dislike the bill, on <i>both</i> sides.  I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that kneejerk objection was the <i>only</i> reason Democrats would object.  Obviously, Republicans and the Democrats disagree on health care; that&#8217;s a given.  </p>
<p>But Democrats would object to any bill the GOP proposed, and that is <i>also</i> true.  There is little doubt in my mind about that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182773</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 20:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182773</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the link, neo. I didn&#039;t bother to check Haseltine&#039;s article that closely because I had hoped he had done the research as to how the systems were compatible.  

In a Brookings Institute article Haseltine was quited, &quot;Haseltine noted that while the United States should not strive to adopt a health care system identical to Singapore’s, Americans can learn from its model.&quot;
Another quote: &quot;He concluded by discussing several lessons that the United States can take away from the health care model in Singapore. Haseltine recommended that Americans think of their country in terms of cities and regional networks, rather than as one entity. This outlook should help the U.S. adopt lessons from Singapore, a much smaller country. He cited co-payment–a concept not foreign to Americans–transparency, managed competition, and “doctors on salaries” as the primary lessons for a revised system in the United States.&quot;

The whole article is here: https://www.brookings.edu/events/how-to-control-health-care-costs-lessons-from-abroad/ 

Something needs to be done and it sounds like Haseltine is at least grappling with the issues.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, neo. I didn&#8217;t bother to check Haseltine&#8217;s article that closely because I had hoped he had done the research as to how the systems were compatible.  </p>
<p>In a Brookings Institute article Haseltine was quited, &#8220;Haseltine noted that while the United States should not strive to adopt a health care system identical to Singapore’s, Americans can learn from its model.&#8221;<br />
Another quote: &#8220;He concluded by discussing several lessons that the United States can take away from the health care model in Singapore. Haseltine recommended that Americans think of their country in terms of cities and regional networks, rather than as one entity. This outlook should help the U.S. adopt lessons from Singapore, a much smaller country. He cited co-payment–a concept not foreign to Americans–transparency, managed competition, and “doctors on salaries” as the primary lessons for a revised system in the United States.&#8221;</p>
<p>The whole article is here: <a href="https://www.brookings.edu/events/how-to-control-health-care-costs-lessons-from-abroad/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.brookings.edu/events/how-to-control-health-care-costs-lessons-from-abroad/</a> </p>
<p>Something needs to be done and it sounds like Haseltine is at least grappling with the issues.</p>
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		By: Montage		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182767</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Montage]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 19:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182767</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#062;Conservatives are hopping mad at this bill, because they want an even more market-based system with less expense (fewer government subsidies).Liberals are hopping mad at this bill, because they would be hopping mad at anything the GOP proposes.&#060;

Not True. There are a lot of reasons to dislike the bill. One of which many people would get less tax credits than they get under the ACA. One article noted a woman in NC [who voted for Trump] who has an autoimmune liver disease would get $5,188 less in subsidies than she gets under the Affordable Care Act.

it doesn&#039;t bring costs down and it will lead to more people without insurance. So, yes, some might be hopping mad but it&#039;s not because it is a GOP bill. Vox covers some of the issues.

http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/3/7/14843632/aca-republican-health-care-plan-premiums-cost-price]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Conservatives are hopping mad at this bill, because they want an even more market-based system with less expense (fewer government subsidies).Liberals are hopping mad at this bill, because they would be hopping mad at anything the GOP proposes.&lt;</p>
<p>Not True. There are a lot of reasons to dislike the bill. One of which many people would get less tax credits than they get under the ACA. One article noted a woman in NC [who voted for Trump] who has an autoimmune liver disease would get $5,188 less in subsidies than she gets under the Affordable Care Act.</p>
<p>it doesn&#039;t bring costs down and it will lead to more people without insurance. So, yes, some might be hopping mad but it&#039;s not because it is a GOP bill. Vox covers some of the issues.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/3/7/14843632/aca-republican-health-care-plan-premiums-cost-price" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/3/7/14843632/aca-republican-health-care-plan-premiums-cost-price</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Frog		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182759</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 19:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182759</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the links, Neo. The Atlantic article glosses over the fact that Scott Brown was not allowed to take his seat in the Senate until the reconciliation process was completed and the dastardly deed was done.
It is time for the Nuclear Option across the board. Let the Dems restore the filibuster rule if they wish, once they re-achieve a majority, if ever. Once gone, the filibuster will never return.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links, Neo. The Atlantic article glosses over the fact that Scott Brown was not allowed to take his seat in the Senate until the reconciliation process was completed and the dastardly deed was done.<br />
It is time for the Nuclear Option across the board. Let the Dems restore the filibuster rule if they wish, once they re-achieve a majority, if ever. Once gone, the filibuster will never return.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 19:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[J.J.:

See &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; on Singapore&#039;s health care system, including this: &quot;The specific features of the Singapore healthcare system are unique, and have been described as a &#039;very difficult system to replicate in many other countries.&#039;&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.J.:</p>
<p>See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore" rel="nofollow">this</a> on Singapore&#8217;s health care system, including this: &#8220;The specific features of the Singapore healthcare system are unique, and have been described as a &#8216;very difficult system to replicate in many other countries.'&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182748</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 18:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182748</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Frog:

See &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/reconciliation-obamacare-repeal-gop-strategy/513059/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/443489/obamacare-repeal-through-reconciliation-what-goes-around-comes-around&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frog:</p>
<p>See <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/reconciliation-obamacare-repeal-gop-strategy/513059/" rel="nofollow">this</a> and <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/443489/obamacare-repeal-through-reconciliation-what-goes-around-comes-around" rel="nofollow">this</a>.</p>
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		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/03/07/gopcare-version-1-0/#comment-2182744</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2017 18:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=67179#comment-2182744</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Repealing Obamacare will possibly slow cost increases of health insurance because it will create choice and competition. 

However, the real work of lowering the cost of healthcare delivery will be done by unraveling all the cost shifting and opaqueness of medical costs. This can be done, but it won’t be easy nor fast.  Here’s a link to an article that points in the right direction:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2013/06/17/How-to-Control-Americas-Health-Care-Costs 

The author, William Haseltine, believes we should copy what they do in Singapore, where they have lower costs and better outcomes in health care.

A couple of excerpts:
&quot;Price and Outcome Transparency: Singapore requires that all prices for doctors and hospitals be publicly available. This allows the patient and third party payers to shop for the best price. In contrast, pricing in the U.S. is opaque, with the costs of pharmaceuticals, services, and procedures hidden from the consumer. Our way allows the industry to charge what the market can bear, and without competition. The result is confusion and often grossly inflated pricing.  Similarly, data regarding medical outcomes is not transparent. I believe price and outcomes transparency will eliminate arbitrary pricing, allow customers to shop for the best services at the best price, and significantly lower health care costs.&quot;

&quot;Catastrophic Health Insurance: The most common health insurance in Singapore covers catastrophic events that require expensive or prolonged treatment. Nearly every citizen of Singapore has such coverage. The deductibles are high, with the insured paying 20 percent of the cost of care. A government safety net helps those most in need and if the additional costs exceed the ability to pay. Catastrophic health insurance costs far less than the comprehensive, low-deductible health insurance plans typical in the U.S.  A shift towards catastrophic plans will help control everyone’s costs. On average Singaporeans pay 2 percent of U.S. annual insurance premiums.&quot;

As to single payer: Military medicine is much like single payer. Everyone gets medical care from whatever medical personnel are on duty at the time. You seldom, if ever, see the same doctor. If you are scheduled for surgery, you will get whoever happens to be on call that day, not the best person to do the job. A related personal story: I was operated on by a young Navy dentist just out of oral surgery school with catastrophic results. Yet one of the best oral surgeons in the Navy was assigned to that hospital and should have been assigned to do my surgery. But he was playing golf that day. Too bad for me. My jaw is still numb 50 years later. No compensation from the Navy for the botched surgery either. 

Ever hear about the VA care?  More government controlled healthcare that is substandard. 

Universal healthcare gives you far less choice and mediocre results.  We must fight against it with everything we&#039;ve got.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Repealing Obamacare will possibly slow cost increases of health insurance because it will create choice and competition. </p>
<p>However, the real work of lowering the cost of healthcare delivery will be done by unraveling all the cost shifting and opaqueness of medical costs. This can be done, but it won’t be easy nor fast.  Here’s a link to an article that points in the right direction:<br />
<a href="http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2013/06/17/How-to-Control-Americas-Health-Care-Costs" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2013/06/17/How-to-Control-Americas-Health-Care-Costs</a> </p>
<p>The author, William Haseltine, believes we should copy what they do in Singapore, where they have lower costs and better outcomes in health care.</p>
<p>A couple of excerpts:<br />
&#8220;Price and Outcome Transparency: Singapore requires that all prices for doctors and hospitals be publicly available. This allows the patient and third party payers to shop for the best price. In contrast, pricing in the U.S. is opaque, with the costs of pharmaceuticals, services, and procedures hidden from the consumer. Our way allows the industry to charge what the market can bear, and without competition. The result is confusion and often grossly inflated pricing.  Similarly, data regarding medical outcomes is not transparent. I believe price and outcomes transparency will eliminate arbitrary pricing, allow customers to shop for the best services at the best price, and significantly lower health care costs.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Catastrophic Health Insurance: The most common health insurance in Singapore covers catastrophic events that require expensive or prolonged treatment. Nearly every citizen of Singapore has such coverage. The deductibles are high, with the insured paying 20 percent of the cost of care. A government safety net helps those most in need and if the additional costs exceed the ability to pay. Catastrophic health insurance costs far less than the comprehensive, low-deductible health insurance plans typical in the U.S.  A shift towards catastrophic plans will help control everyone’s costs. On average Singaporeans pay 2 percent of U.S. annual insurance premiums.&#8221;</p>
<p>As to single payer: Military medicine is much like single payer. Everyone gets medical care from whatever medical personnel are on duty at the time. You seldom, if ever, see the same doctor. If you are scheduled for surgery, you will get whoever happens to be on call that day, not the best person to do the job. A related personal story: I was operated on by a young Navy dentist just out of oral surgery school with catastrophic results. Yet one of the best oral surgeons in the Navy was assigned to that hospital and should have been assigned to do my surgery. But he was playing golf that day. Too bad for me. My jaw is still numb 50 years later. No compensation from the Navy for the botched surgery either. </p>
<p>Ever hear about the VA care?  More government controlled healthcare that is substandard. </p>
<p>Universal healthcare gives you far less choice and mediocre results.  We must fight against it with everything we&#8217;ve got.</p>
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