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	Comments on: More reflections on the 9th Circuit&#8217;s decision on Trump&#8217;s EO	</title>
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	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173906</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173906</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another astute observer:
http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-stay-trumps-immigration-order/

I’m just hearing on Fox News that the Ninth Circuit ruling – which I haven’t seen published yet – took a peculiar premise: that although federal courts have uniformly agreed that a presidential action like Trump’s is not reviewable, that doesn’t mean it isn’t reviewable by the courts.

Since no rights of American citizens are at stake, and no question at issue on what the president’s po.wers are, the implication here is that the courts are empowered to have an opinion different from the president’s on national security matters.  That is a political, not a judicial judgment.  ...
 the American people will not agree to simply be led as sheep to the slaughter by this outcome.  &lt;b&gt;It is very dangerous to remove from the people all hope of the rule of law prevailing, and their justifiable expectations being upheld.&lt;/b&gt;

Three, the reality that our courts are so unreliable now has been exposed, in an attention-grabbing way that people will understand, perhaps even better and more broadly than they understood the bad Obamacare ruling on the insurance mandate.  &lt;b&gt;And the “winners” in the ruling have taken the mask off entirely, and are prancing around gloating about their victory over the clear will and obvious security interests of the American people.  &lt;/b&gt;The opponents of Trump’s order quite evidently want to act against our security interests, and are thrilled that two courts have ensured that that will happen....
If our borders aren’t protected, and our immigration policies judicious and sound, our laws become unenforceable.  If laws don’t mean what they say – if judges keep suddenly reinterpreting them – they can’t be enforced in a reliable way that allows the people to go about their business, unburdened by constant worries about their lives and property.  &lt;b&gt;It isn’t possible to take a jackhammer and blowtorch to the law, and then expect it to protect you later.&lt;/b&gt;  No matter who or where you are, you won’t be immune.  Sooner or later, the consequences of lawlessness get around to everyone.
* * *
Cue the usual quote from &quot;Man for All Seasons&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another astute observer:<br />
<a href="http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-stay-trumps-immigration-order/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-stay-trumps-immigration-order/</a></p>
<p>I’m just hearing on Fox News that the Ninth Circuit ruling – which I haven’t seen published yet – took a peculiar premise: that although federal courts have uniformly agreed that a presidential action like Trump’s is not reviewable, that doesn’t mean it isn’t reviewable by the courts.</p>
<p>Since no rights of American citizens are at stake, and no question at issue on what the president’s po.wers are, the implication here is that the courts are empowered to have an opinion different from the president’s on national security matters.  That is a political, not a judicial judgment.  &#8230;<br />
 the American people will not agree to simply be led as sheep to the slaughter by this outcome.  <b>It is very dangerous to remove from the people all hope of the rule of law prevailing, and their justifiable expectations being upheld.</b></p>
<p>Three, the reality that our courts are so unreliable now has been exposed, in an attention-grabbing way that people will understand, perhaps even better and more broadly than they understood the bad Obamacare ruling on the insurance mandate.  <b>And the “winners” in the ruling have taken the mask off entirely, and are prancing around gloating about their victory over the clear will and obvious security interests of the American people.  </b>The opponents of Trump’s order quite evidently want to act against our security interests, and are thrilled that two courts have ensured that that will happen&#8230;.<br />
If our borders aren’t protected, and our immigration policies judicious and sound, our laws become unenforceable.  If laws don’t mean what they say – if judges keep suddenly reinterpreting them – they can’t be enforced in a reliable way that allows the people to go about their business, unburdened by constant worries about their lives and property.  <b>It isn’t possible to take a jackhammer and blowtorch to the law, and then expect it to protect you later.</b>  No matter who or where you are, you won’t be immune.  Sooner or later, the consequences of lawlessness get around to everyone.<br />
* * *<br />
Cue the usual quote from &#8220;Man for All Seasons&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another on-point article
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/02/the-full-case-for-why-courts-have-no-jurisdiction-over-trumps-immigration-order

Yancey Ward Says: 
February 11th, 2017 at 11:52 am
You ain’t seen nothing yet, Neo. I predict the lower courts will put a stop to any deportations, too. Also, I predict every single EO Trump signs, plus much of the coming legislation he signs will be overturned by a court somewhere.

What is coming is going to get very, very ugly- and quickly at that.
* * 
It&#039;s already ugly and it started before Trump&#039;s inauguration.  I agree with commenters who pointed out the protestors and courts would be pushing back against any Republican president.  Maybe Trump&#039;s &quot;incompetence&quot; is making their obfuscation easier, but it may also be making it more visible, because he doesn&#039;t back down when they push him.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another on-point article<br />
<a href="https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/02/the-full-case-for-why-courts-have-no-jurisdiction-over-trumps-immigration-order" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/02/the-full-case-for-why-courts-have-no-jurisdiction-over-trumps-immigration-order</a></p>
<p>Yancey Ward Says:<br />
February 11th, 2017 at 11:52 am<br />
You ain’t seen nothing yet, Neo. I predict the lower courts will put a stop to any deportations, too. Also, I predict every single EO Trump signs, plus much of the coming legislation he signs will be overturned by a court somewhere.</p>
<p>What is coming is going to get very, very ugly- and quickly at that.<br />
* *<br />
It&#8217;s already ugly and it started before Trump&#8217;s inauguration.  I agree with commenters who pointed out the protestors and courts would be pushing back against any Republican president.  Maybe Trump&#8217;s &#8220;incompetence&#8221; is making their obfuscation easier, but it may also be making it more visible, because he doesn&#8217;t back down when they push him.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Yancey Ward		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173700</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yancey Ward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2017 16:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173700</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You ain&#039;t seen nothing yet, Neo.  I predict the lower courts will put a stop to &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; deportations, too.  Also, I predict every single EO Trump signs, plus much of the coming legislation he signs will be overturned by a court somewhere.

What is coming is going to get very, very ugly- and quickly at that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ain&#8217;t seen nothing yet, Neo.  I predict the lower courts will put a stop to <i>any</i> deportations, too.  Also, I predict every single EO Trump signs, plus much of the coming legislation he signs will be overturned by a court somewhere.</p>
<p>What is coming is going to get very, very ugly- and quickly at that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Liz		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173699</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2017 16:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173699</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Compare this statement cited in the article.....

&quot;Applied more generally, this ruling would give state attorneys general extraordinarily broad powers to act essentially as lawyers for actual or potential immigrants – merely by pointing to the alleged costs incurred by key state institutions if they are even temporarily deprived of the immigrant’s presence. &quot;

with the costs cited in this article on the impact of refugee children being placed in public schools....

http://nypost.com/2017/01/31/how-trumps-refugee-order-targets-educational-injustice/

Specific points in the article is that refugees are placed in smaller towns which is impacting education for all children.  Attempts to bring the refugees up to speed with English immersion programs resulted in ACLU suits forcing mainstreaming the students.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compare this statement cited in the article&#8230;..</p>
<p>&#8220;Applied more generally, this ruling would give state attorneys general extraordinarily broad powers to act essentially as lawyers for actual or potential immigrants – merely by pointing to the alleged costs incurred by key state institutions if they are even temporarily deprived of the immigrant’s presence. &#8221;</p>
<p>with the costs cited in this article on the impact of refugee children being placed in public schools&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://nypost.com/2017/01/31/how-trumps-refugee-order-targets-educational-injustice/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://nypost.com/2017/01/31/how-trumps-refugee-order-targets-educational-injustice/</a></p>
<p>Specific points in the article is that refugees are placed in smaller towns which is impacting education for all children.  Attempts to bring the refugees up to speed with English immersion programs resulted in ACLU suits forcing mainstreaming the students.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Saunders		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173528</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Saunders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2017 00:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173528</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Trump was 100% correct -- they&#039;re not judges, they (most of the federal judges in the 9th Circuit) are leftist politicians wearing black robes.  Trump should appeal &lt;i&gt;en banc&lt;/i&gt;, then go back to the district court, then do whatever else he needs to do to stall long enough to get Gorsuch confirmed.  And fill the four vacant seats on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, and the 15 vacancies in the District Courts of the 9th..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trump was 100% correct &#8212; they&#8217;re not judges, they (most of the federal judges in the 9th Circuit) are leftist politicians wearing black robes.  Trump should appeal <i>en banc</i>, then go back to the district court, then do whatever else he needs to do to stall long enough to get Gorsuch confirmed.  And fill the four vacant seats on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, and the 15 vacancies in the District Courts of the 9th..</p>
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		By: Rachelle		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173513</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2017 23:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173513</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Reckless and rather stupid for the district court and the 9th circuit.  Haven&#039;t these people paid any attention to Trump?  

Not only should the 9th Circuit be broken up as Sen. Flake wants, I think it should be abolished altogether and its judges reassigned to other courts while two or three new circuit courts are established in its place and staffed with Trump appointees.  Too political?  Maybe, but the courts have long since decided to be as much political as judicial in their acts now it is time for them to take a big dose of political medicine.  

By the way, Yale Law Review has an article on how to get rid of federal judges altogether.  I haven&#039;t read it yet, but it seems timely.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reckless and rather stupid for the district court and the 9th circuit.  Haven&#8217;t these people paid any attention to Trump?  </p>
<p>Not only should the 9th Circuit be broken up as Sen. Flake wants, I think it should be abolished altogether and its judges reassigned to other courts while two or three new circuit courts are established in its place and staffed with Trump appointees.  Too political?  Maybe, but the courts have long since decided to be as much political as judicial in their acts now it is time for them to take a big dose of political medicine.  </p>
<p>By the way, Yale Law Review has an article on how to get rid of federal judges altogether.  I haven&#8217;t read it yet, but it seems timely.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Big Maq		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173503</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Maq]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2017 22:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173503</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Ann - see that you already posted the link.  Took me too long to put together that last comment and missed yours. ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ann &#8211; see that you already posted the link.  Took me too long to put together that last comment and missed yours. 😉</p>
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		<title>
		By: Big Maq		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173502</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Maq]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2017 22:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173502</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Neo - Was going to link French&#039;s article in a prior comment, glad you did.  

Here is another, from the Editors, who have additional points...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security
.

Also, this insight about the consequences of all this...

&lt;em&gt;Hindsight is 20/20, but &lt;b&gt;it was not hard to foresee that the Left would be gunning for Donald Trump&lt;/b&gt; ... the goal would be to delegitimize him, humiliate him, crush him, using any weapon available.

&lt;b&gt;But the White House didn’t see this – or did, and didn’t care&lt;/b&gt;. The order should have been crafted with care and precision, the relevant officials properly informed and instructed, an airtight legal defense prepared – but none of these things happened. &lt;b&gt;Was this incompetence or recklessness? There is no third option.&lt;/b&gt; ...

... the White House’s extraordinary bumbling on this initial measure has made it easier for the administration’s critics to make their favorite case: that the order is, in truth, nothing more than thinly veiled bigotry. And &lt;b&gt;as the president tries to implement other elements of his immigration agenda, they’ll point back to this executive order as evidence of his “real” intentions.&lt;/b&gt;

When that happens, as it inevitably will, the White House will have no one to blame but themselves.&lt;/em&gt; - Ian Tuttle
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444816/trump-immigration-order-ninth-circuit-ruling-debacle-consequences
.

Thanks to this &quot;bumbling&quot;, trump&#039;s admin opened the door for the left...

&lt;em&gt;&quot;&lt;b&gt;The political branches’ plenary authority to control alien entry into the United States&lt;/b&gt;, and the heightened deference owed by courts to the national-security judgments of the political branches, &lt;b&gt;are precisely at stake in the matter of President Trump’s executive order.&lt;/b&gt;&quot;&lt;/em&gt;
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security
.

According to trump&#039;s own standard, should he be fired for this?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Neo &#8211; Was going to link French&#8217;s article in a prior comment, glad you did.  </p>
<p>Here is another, from the Editors, who have additional points&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security</a><br />
.</p>
<p>Also, this insight about the consequences of all this&#8230;</p>
<p><em>Hindsight is 20/20, but <b>it was not hard to foresee that the Left would be gunning for Donald Trump</b> &#8230; the goal would be to delegitimize him, humiliate him, crush him, using any weapon available.</p>
<p><b>But the White House didn’t see this – or did, and didn’t care</b>. The order should have been crafted with care and precision, the relevant officials properly informed and instructed, an airtight legal defense prepared – but none of these things happened. <b>Was this incompetence or recklessness? There is no third option.</b> &#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230; the White House’s extraordinary bumbling on this initial measure has made it easier for the administration’s critics to make their favorite case: that the order is, in truth, nothing more than thinly veiled bigotry. And <b>as the president tries to implement other elements of his immigration agenda, they’ll point back to this executive order as evidence of his “real” intentions.</b></p>
<p>When that happens, as it inevitably will, the White House will have no one to blame but themselves.</em> &#8211; Ian Tuttle<br />
<a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444816/trump-immigration-order-ninth-circuit-ruling-debacle-consequences" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444816/trump-immigration-order-ninth-circuit-ruling-debacle-consequences</a><br />
.</p>
<p>Thanks to this &#8220;bumbling&#8221;, trump&#8217;s admin opened the door for the left&#8230;</p>
<p><em>&#8220;<b>The political branches’ plenary authority to control alien entry into the United States</b>, and the heightened deference owed by courts to the national-security judgments of the political branches, <b>are precisely at stake in the matter of President Trump’s executive order.</b>&#8220;</em><br />
<a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security</a><br />
.</p>
<p>According to trump&#8217;s own standard, should he be fired for this?</p>
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		By: Frog		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173501</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2017 22:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173501</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I heard today the 9th Circuit has a backlog of 13,000 cases awaiting review and hearings.
A single judge, Federal District or otherwise, should not have the power to stay the President. The cart needs to be righted (pun intended).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard today the 9th Circuit has a backlog of 13,000 cases awaiting review and hearings.<br />
A single judge, Federal District or otherwise, should not have the power to stay the President. The cart needs to be righted (pun intended).</p>
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		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2017/02/10/more-reflections-on-the-9th-circuits-decision-on-trumps-eo/#comment-2173496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2017 22:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=66615#comment-2173496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Andrew McCarthy has tweeted a link to NRO&#039;s editorial today, and I think perhaps he wrote it. In any case, it quotes from a 1948 Supreme Court ruling written by Justice Jackson that explains that decisions involving foreign policy are “political, not judicial” in nature, and are&lt;blockquote&gt;wholly confided by our Constitution to the political departments of the government, Executive and Legislative. They are delicate, complex, and involve large elements of prophecy. They are and should be undertaken only by those directly responsible to the people whose welfare they advance or imperil. They are decisions of a kind for which the Judiciary has neither aptitude, facilities nor responsibility and have long been held to belong in the domain of political power not subject to judicial intrusion or inquiry.&lt;/blockquote&gt;The full editorial is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew McCarthy has tweeted a link to NRO&#8217;s editorial today, and I think perhaps he wrote it. In any case, it quotes from a 1948 Supreme Court ruling written by Justice Jackson that explains that decisions involving foreign policy are “political, not judicial” in nature, and are</p>
<blockquote><p>wholly confided by our Constitution to the political departments of the government, Executive and Legislative. They are delicate, complex, and involve large elements of prophecy. They are and should be undertaken only by those directly responsible to the people whose welfare they advance or imperil. They are decisions of a kind for which the Judiciary has neither aptitude, facilities nor responsibility and have long been held to belong in the domain of political power not subject to judicial intrusion or inquiry.</p></blockquote>
<p>The full editorial is <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444800/ninth-circuit-trump-immigration-order-ruling-separation-powers-national-security" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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