How do these malicious altruists propose we take care of an almost 50% rapid increase in population” – orson

So we go from a concern / fear of terrorists, to a ban across several countries, to now talking about 150M people who want to immigrate to the US.

parker a while ago wanted to know who conflates the issues around immigration. Here is one example.

And, this is not unusual in face to face discussions, afaic.
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I see a similar strain of “confusion” when we talk about “100 Syrians rushed” into the US.

Could it not be that these people had already been vetted and approved?

Could it be that they were backloged because they were either turned back, or couldn’t travel in the first place?

Could it be that they cut short any planned trip to make sure they were not inadvertently caught outside the country, unable to return?

What is a “normal” number anyway?

Now, very different story, if it were reported that the approval processes for these Syrians (are they all refugees, even?) were rushed to allow them in during that time.

BUT, that is NOT what was reported.
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There is a whole lot of red vs blue argumentation going on.

trump’s EO may well be legal, but I don’t know, not being a legal scholar.

We can all find scholars we can point to who make a great argument for our preferred solution.

The additional problem is that folks choose to infuse more than legal argumentation into the matter.

They are talking like it is some conspiracy in the courts if a decision is not made in their favor. They further speculate about the DOJ sandbagging or otherwise putting their “B” team on the cases.

The truth couldn’t simply be that there are plausible arguments on either side, and that the fact it is going up the chain of courts is more a proof that there IS a legitimate question about it, than it is of some kind of rigging?
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Could it be that the slapdashery in the constructing of this EO and in the rollout had put a YUGE bullseye on this?

The rationale / excuse is that there is some kind of “urgency”.

What “urgency” couldn’t wait a short while to get it right?

And, if it really is so urgent, why couldn’t it have been prepared to implement on day one, than a week later?

The claim rings hollow.

There’s probably better than 50% of the country who think things need to be tightened up, but this false “urgency” may well come across as “railroad”.

It wasn’t all that long ago that many GOP were demanding to ban travel from Africa following the far scarier ebola threat.

What came of that? Right! No ban, but no epidemic either? Did everyone forget that?
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Of course, this is all not to say vetting being done now is all it could or needs to be, nor that everyone approved has been “well” vetted.

Nor is it to say we should throw the door open to all refugees, especially from hotspots where jihadists are in great number (begs the question why Afghanistan, and Pakistan are not also on the list).

The slapdashery, the bullseye attention and this weak argumentation, all feed into an unnecessary delegitimization of the need and concern for action.
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But, rather than doubling down and going all in on the red vs blue politics, wouldn’t we be better off holding our elected officials accountable, and demanding that they put forth well considered proposals / orders and competently execute them? And, demand that they stop spinning to us when it is obviously not true?

Or, are we comfortable with more of the same, we so want to have a “win!”?!

You very likely won’t get an answer, even if you ask. My niece, who appears to be having a breakdown following Trump’s election had posted something like ‘Yay Robart’. I asked her if the one million we allow to immigrate per year was sufficient, or whether it should be higher, or completely open border.
She replied, “I am on the side of humanity….” whatever that means. I asked her again if there was a number she was happy with, but she refused to answer.

I want us to be kept safe as much as you do. However, the roll-out was a train-wreck.

Also – and I’m questioning this: Is it true that the vetting of refugees into this country is handled solely by the UN? I don’t believe that. On it’s face I don’t believe that, and I imagine whoever wrote it doesn’t believe it either.

I just looked it up. Here is the Heritage foundation: http://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/how-the-refugee-vetting-process-works

Multiple US Government agencies get involved after an initial UN vetting. An excerpt:

The State Department

-Consular Lookout and Support System

-Consular Consolidated Database

-Department of Homeland Security

-TECS (a DHS security system)

-DHS Automated Biometric Identification System

National Counterterrorism Center/FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center

-Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment

-Terrorist Screening Database

Federal Bureau of Investigation

-Extracts of the National Crime Information Center’s Wanted Persons File, Immigration Violator File, Foreign Fugitive File, Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File (and the Interstate Identification Index)

-Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System / Next Generation Identification

Interpol

Drug Enforcement Administration

Department of Defense

-Automated Biometric Identification System

Does this sound like a quick one week process to you?

Yes we should be kept safe. The real question is if what’s already in place is doing the trick.

But we already know “what the hell is going on”. There is a LOT of propaganda flying around.

“Those let into the United States were vetted by the United Nations. The process for Syrians has been criticized due to the lack of background information from the country….”

How good could the UN vetting in Syria be?

The whole point is people are getting in since the TRO was issued.

No irreparable harm for 90 days “to figure what the hell is going on.”

Cornhead – the false implications was no vetting had been done to those Syrians. That they were “rushed in”. I don’t believe that is true.

The idea that we had open borders where anyone from Syria can just walk up and be let in until Trump’s EO was signed is propaganda.

Wish the volume could be turned down. Of course we have to protect our borders. We need sane controls, vetting, etc. We already have a number in place. Good enough? Man, I wish we could get a good faith debate on that.

The reason this EO isn’t going the way you want is entirely on Trump and his apparent misunderstanding of how things work, and the damage of just rushing something into implementation. It’s on him.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-thwarted-100-syrians-rushed-in-over-just-2-days/article/2614138

According to aGallup poll in 2012, over 150 million people in the world want to come to the USA.

How do these malicious altruists propose we take care of an almost 50% rapid increase in population

I’m not naive enough to think that there aren’t people trying to get into our country to do us harm. But I’m also able to spot propaganda. That’s what this is.

If Trump really was trying to make us safer he would have proceeded just a little more carefully, with better review of his EO and appreciation of the consequences. That’s all he had to do.

The Dems may have some kind of crazy notion that Jackson is anathema but I’ll bet you $20 that you’re carrying around a picture of him in your wallet.