Comments on: Europe and the Sea of Faith

By: James

James — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 00:09:55 +0000

Is God our Father or an abstraction? In Genesis 3, we see the failure of our ancestors to believe in the goodly fatherhood of God. The belief in divine and good fatherhood inspires much great art and architecture. If God is not a good and benevolent father, or if fatherhood by definition cannot be good, then the art and architecture go downhill along with the state of theology. Edith Stein stayed up all night reading Teresa of Avila and found the clarity she had always sought.

By: Nick

Nick — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:50:37 +0000

You know, there are parishes with the Latin Mass that are in union with Rome.

http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm

By: expat

expat — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 00:18:59 +0000

I share all of your impressions of the Gothic cathedrals. They put humans in their place, wondering about life in a huge transcendent place we can only appreciate in bits. I cannot stand the modern churches, which seem more like reception rooms in an office full of accountants. I also remember when church music was infected by the folk songs in the 60s. I even miss the Latin.

I also share the view about Pillars of the Earth. I can’t even walk through my German city, full of half-timbered (Fachwerk) houses with carved balconies. without trying to imagine what the carver was trying to convey.

OMT: the churches and cathedrals of Normandy and Brittany also tie into the tidal aspect of Arnold’s poem. Not far from Dover, you have St Malo and Mont San Michel, both of which have incredible tides.

By: OM

OM — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 00:13:55 +0000

Corrected spelling;

Lux é¦terna luceat eis, Domine,

May everlasting light shine upon them, O Lord,

By: OM

OM — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:59:47 +0000

Lux Eterna

By: T

Mon, 26 Sep 2016 22:28:07 +0000

How other-wordly and inspiring it must have been to gather inside such vast and soaring structures to worship and ponder the mysteries. And it still is, . . . .” [Neo]

This was exactly the intent. If this inspiration is still alive within the walls today, just imagine how much more potent is was in a age of trash-ridden dirt streets bustling with every form of commercial and military activity.

The cathedrals were not only inspirational but allegorical as well. The stained glass depicting biblical images of the Old and New Testaments stood as a visual parallel to the word of God (light) passing to humanity through the bible (in the Middle Ages, light was seen as the purest manifestation of the godhead).

So an otherworldy place, infused with the manifestation of the divine translated by visual images from the divine book; it was conceived of as a heaven on earth.

By: Jayne

Jayne — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:34:13 +0000

To Frog, also, your comment:
“God is there for you if you choose. He gave us free will.
Faith is a gift from God as well.”

I see now, that I misinterpreted, went astray from, the heart of Neo-neocon’s essay! It is about faith. Not so much organized religion.

And I, in my concrete manner of thinking, because we were on the subject of cathedrals, I was put in mind of the structures of organized religion, both the human hierarchy and the buildings. Thus, I went afar from the subject at hand.

Yea, I see that faith and organized religion, while more or less the same for some religious souls, are quite distinct for others.

I appreciate your comments.

By: Jayne

Jayne — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:20:33 +0000

Hi frog, yes I misread or generalized from Neo-neocon’s essay: “The centrality of Christian belief in western Europe has been on a long slow decline for centuries (I chronicled a major event connected with that decline here), with no end in sight. And it struck me, when I heard of the priest’s murder in Rouen, that the intensity of faith today in the Muslim world forms a stark contrast to the decline of faith today in western Europe–and that the latter forms a similar contrast to the powerful faith of the western Europeans who built structures such as Rouen Cathedral.”

And the Catholic Church of the ’50s was my inexpert comparison. Maybe it was simply the Boston Irish Catholic world of my young days, but in the everyday life of us, the church stood apart. Huge. Revered.

Yes, yes, Neo-neocon, I did mean that. Thinking of the everyday life of an average, non radical, Muslim family in, say, Deerfield, Michigan as it would compare to our everyday life when I was young. An inexact comparison to be sure.

And while I love words, the idea of poetry, the arts, expressing concepts that can be summarized with words, but not expressed with words, I am not so adept at expressing myself.

And Frog asked, above, ever stop to think who designed and engineered the cathedrals?

Yes, I sure do.

And, this may not be in line with this conversation, but I am reading an interesting book, Cathedral, Forge, and Waterwheel: Technology and Invention in the Middle Ages, by Frances & Joseph Gies.

Neo-neocon, I was very moved by your essay and the comments!

By: neo-neocon

neo-neocon — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 17:36:03 +0000

Frog, et. al:

I believe what Jayne probably meant was just that the Catholic faith used to be stronger in more people’s lives back then, just as Islam is now quite strong an influence in the lives of many Muslims. I believe that’s all she meant, although I don’t read her mind.

By: Frog

Frog — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 17:34:09 +0000

Jayne-
“I, too, get a sense of a vague, blurred similarity of the Catholic 1950’s with the muslim. Whenever I say this, People just shake their heads, no, or stare blankly. So nice to read neocon’s observation.”
You “too”? Which others do you consider in that camp?
I am shaking my head, no.
I read nothing in Neo’s post of that alleged similarity.
God is there for you if you choose. He gave us free will.
Faith is a gift from God as well.