About where I stand.

All the good assumed with trump is merely a speculative hope. He looks to be driving down much of the same path, perhaps even faster than clinton would take us there.

That which is rewarded will be repeated. Keep choosing the lesser of two evils and the Republicans (RNC) who really don’t seem to learn from loosing, will keep giving us a lesser (looser).

Neo – this might be a better analogy, I heard it from Dennis Prager: “You’re faced with two doors. You must go through one of them. Both have (truthful) signs. One says: “Man-eating Tiger.” the other says: “Perhaps Man-eating Tiger.” Which one do you choose?

You “know” that I’m not the only one who does not buy your into your framing of the argument and consequently your framing of the “logical” conclusions.

“That’s true. You remain as obstinately opposed to a factually logical rationale that you can’t rebut, as ever.” You state your position is “factually logical” therefor I am wrong. Clever game you have going.

So don’t bring in character issues, “rationality,” or “willful blindness” into the mix. I could say you are “obstinate” in your positions, is that a neutral term?

Different people weigh the risks, consequences, and probabilities differently than you. That isn’t new is it?

That’s true. You remain as obstinately opposed to a factually logical rationale that you can’t rebut, as ever. Since, when you boil it down, your response consists entirely of, “that’s not so!”

“For all their talk about stopping Hillary, the “last chance” at saving what’s left of America, blah, blah, blah…what those types of Trump supporters really believe is that America is already lost and Trump is their weapon of revenge.” The Other Chuck

You misstate our position and thus are only partially correct. Many of us do believe that America is already lost. I personally base that upon the elections of 2008, 2012 and now our ‘choice’ of two eminently unqualified nominees. But for many of us, we do not plan to vote for Trump out of a desire for revenge.

You ‘nevertrumpers’ rightfully resent many Trumper’s mischaracterization of your position and then are guilty of the same thing in reverse.

Rather than revenge (true of a minority), it is the realization that however Trump would act as a President, he will almost certainly not take us down the collectivist path that Hillary would and even if wrong about that, there is utter certainty as to Hillary’s path.

And, many judge that, even at his most authoritarian worst, America stands a far better chance for recovery than it would in the aftermath of a leftist regime. Thus the comparison of a Pinochet and a Chavez.

That’s another complimentary aspect of the Left’s strategy to bring down America.

If, in the next decade, a crisis resulting in fiscal collapse doesn’t occur, then under Hillary, the needed increase in democrats occurs.

If the economy does collapse then the highly probable result will be a bi-partisan demand for law and order and, in the face of the chaos that collapse will bring, that means the imposition of martial law for “the duration of the national crisis”. You do remember the left’s mantra regarding the ‘opportunity’ that crisis brings… right? And under martial law, there is established legal precedent for the President suspending constitutional provisions…

Looking at all of the issues of which we here incessantly opine and reaching the conclusion that they indicate a tipping point into an irreversible decline is NOT ‘working ourselves into a hysterical lather’. It’s simply reaching a conclusion with which you disagree. I for one, hope you’re right about this but I cannot agree that circumstances appear to support your position.

You might consider this; if you are right and we in the wrong we shall be pleasantly surprised, whereas if we are right and you wrong, not only will the opposite occur but you, if honest will have to ask yourself what led you to discount what we insisted was obvious?

You showed that the analogy was very imprecise; however on a very gross level the situation does vaguely resemble Russian roulette. I believe the analogy may do more harm than good if it obscures the reasons we are in this mess (i.e. the analogous question is why are you playing Russian roulette anyway). – what is critical to understand why neither choice is even close to acceptable and what to do about it.

It is because corrupt democracy and the autocracy are two sides of the same coin. In both cases the country is taken to the brink by a lack of freedom, particularly economic freedom. Getting the government out of the way (i.e. capitalism) will lead to both freedom and efficiency as the history of the US amply demonstrates. However, you don’t need to know history to figure this out. A few minutes of thinking (deeply) about the issues, and in particularly human behavior should make this obvious.

‘“AesopFan” quotes an article that claims, “a Hillary Clinton presidency is Russian Roulette with a semi-auto. With Trump, at least you can spin the cylinder and take your chances.”’

Seems to me the best choice is not to play Russian roulette at all. Voting for the least of evils presented by the major parties ensures that; 1) they will never offer us anything else but evil and 2) both the “best” and “worst” evils will get worse over time. The history of the last few election cycles (or the quality of leadership over decades of American history) amply demonstrates this, although the reason for it should be obvious. Why should they change if they face no negative consequence for their present behavior? This is the reason a vote for either Clinton or Trump is much worse than a wasted vote, but is in fact a vote to actively promote eventual tyranny.