The problem is not building the movement absent Christianity. It is not absent – the core principles are there, and have appeal well beyond the bounds of Christianity.

It is how we want to portray them that is different, and insisting on making it about Christianity sends the a very specific message to those who are not.

Are we really so weak in faith that we have to have the affirmation in every conversation on the topic that it is a Christian morality?
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“What is the draw?” – The principles are universal… Washington wasn’t looking to emphasize the religious aspect, but a universal aspect.

Why? What would they “hear” if he expresses it the way you’d insist on? Does that make them more or less likely to agree?

Should he/we only address people who believe in a “Higher Authority” because we believe they couldn’t possibly be receptive to our ideas?
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“They (conservative movement) certainly haven’t had great success so far” – Obviously many factors come into play. We thought we were positioned for success, but have seen the reality in dramatic fashion in 2016. Wouldn’t attribute it to “trying to build the conservative movement absent Christianity”.

Speaking of not having great success, sadly, even Christianity is waning and losing it’s way.

Really, to those points… what does one say when church leaders are backing Trump? WWJD? Probably not what they are doing. “Leadership” like that probably does much to hurt Christianity, and the conservative movement simultaneously.
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Like it or not, we are living with many others who don’t share our beliefs. If we want to have any possibility to shape our society, we need others, and need to consider how we approach those who are not in our religious circle.

Bottom Line: You may feel the need to express it the way you do, and that is okay, you are free to do so, but please consider your audience and if it is serving your objective.

“My point towards the end of my comment was about appealing to those who are not Christian when it comes to building a conservative movement.”

What, then, will be the draw for those who are not Christian to join a conservative movement based on Christian morality? The Ten Commandments contradict what we naturally want to do. Why would anyone want to follow the Commandments unless they actually believed that they come from a Higher Authority? And that they were given, not as the Ten Suggestions, but actual Commandments.

This is, I believe, the main problem facing those who have been trying to build a conservative movement absent Christianity. I wish them luck, but I doubt they will have it. They certainly haven’t had any great success so far. “In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.” Those days are these days.

Waidmann

I do understand the biblical reference / history.

Don’t want to belabor that point, other than to say that I don’t think many listeners are making that fine a point on “Judeo-Christian”, and I too don’t think it is a modern cultural reference, but is an appeal to a commonality.

My point towards the end of my comment was about appealing to those who are not Christian when it comes to building a conservative movement.

We can insist on being clear that it all comes from Christian morality, a good historical argument.

But, then it becomes “the Christian’s morality” rather than universal principles we all can live by.

The Founding Fathers took pains to separate church from state, and used language that did not emphasize that the principles were “Judeo-Christian”.

“It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights…“ – Geo Washington – 1790 Letter to the Hebrew Congregation at Newport, RI
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/letter-to-the-hebrew-congregation-at-newport/

And, yes, agree that we are veering away from those Founding Principles.

“Some conservative commentators even talk about ‘Judeo-Christian values’ to expand the boundaries to include Jews — Levin and Hannity used this frequently.”
When they talk about ”Judeo-Christian” culture or values, they are most likely talking about the Judeo culture of the Old Testament, from whence came the Christian culture of the New Testament. It has nothing to do with modern Jewish culture, which, in this country, is pretty much leftist. I think many Orthodox Jews are an exception to that, but Conservative and Reformed Jews in America are all pretty liberal (if anyone knows different or better, please weigh in). Israel itself was founded and remains a Socialist nation.

Your next seven paragraphs are interesting, I am tempted to address them, but it would hijack this thread, and I don’t want to do that more than I already have.

Your last paragraph, however, I want to comment on. I agree that it is not necessary to convert to Christianity to recognize the value of Christian morality. I suspect that many of our Founding Fathers were not, in fact, Christian in the Biblical sense. However, they all agreed that the 10 Commandments were absolutely necessary for the continuance of our Constitution. It’s the morality that permitted it to work. And it is the lack of said morality that is ruining it now.

Waidmann

Here’s to his perseverance!!!

The Link:

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2016/06/the-irs-scandal-day-1127.html

Answer:

“It seems so long ago; so many outrageous things have happened since then” – Neo

Part of that answer is that we are in an era of outrage overload, and we (most of us anyway) have “normal” lives to live (i.e. responsibilities we need to take care of, which occupy most of our time).

At its core, this is a symptom of the overall size and scope of the government(s) we have.

It is so large and complex, there is no way any of us individually can keep tabs on the merely “big issues” from every dept/agency/service/council/etc. (But isn’t that what representative government is about?)

Politicians use that their advantage, as well as procedural maneuvers to slow things down (a type of “sandbagging”) into a “forgotten” state.

Couple that with a “helpful” media that buries the lede on page 3 or beyond, if providing any coverage at all.

Yes, it does all come back to “activism” (per Eric). I call it “involvement”.

Who wants to add to the pile we already have on our plate every day? Yet, if we don’t, we get what we see from our “representatives” in government.

Our Liberty requires care and feeding too.

Some conservative commentators even talk about “Judeo-Christian values” to expand the boundaries to include Jews – Levin and Hannity used this frequently.

The interesting thing about this type of comment is that it implies Christians (and Jews, per above) have the exclusive ability to know right from wrong, or the flipside, that non-Christians cannot know right from wrong.

There are way too many people who call themselves “Christian” that do horrid things, sometimes in the name of their Christian faith.

So basing an argument about (outrage over) right and wrong to having or not the Christian faith 1) lets way too many people off the hook; 2) opens up the debate about hypocrisy.

For instance, what do we say about church leaders who are supporting Trump?

By my understanding, as a born and raised Christian, that direct association represents a serious lapse in adherence to Christian teachings.

I get the overall point, that America is having a moral/cultural/political failing that is reflected in this issue and many others, and agree.

I believe a lot of non-Christian people agree (and more could) with our fundamental principles.

However, we are at the point that if we want to organize and bring people into supporting a conservative movement, we need not brand it as Christian only. It may have come from there, but we are not asking anyone to convert to / adopt Christianity to be part of our movement, right?

We need to start “hearing” what others would hear when we say these things.

Something to think about, not an objection.

Does your quote from Chambers come from his book “Witness”? If not, where? I don’t know Chambers, but it seems perhaps I should.

“Witness” was written in 1952, the year I was born. There is truly nothing new under the sun.

Waidmann