ISIS oil flows to Turkey, and the Russians have been attacking ISIS trucks carrying oil. There are huge profits to be made selling heavily discounted ISIS oil. Reportedly, ErdoÄŸan’s son is involved. So, maybe the Turks thought shooting down a Russian SU24 bomber would induce them to back off. If that is the case, they made a strategic mistake.

The other question was whether or not ErdoÄŸan advised Obama that they intended to shoot down a Russian plane. Doesn’t sound like Obama much cares, given what he said.

If Russia were going after the Islamic State instead, Mr. Obama said, such mistakes “are less likely to occur.” He said it’s important for Turkish and Russian officials to communicate and to “discourage any kind of escalation.”

Russian sources contradict Obama’s claim. Since the ISIS bombing of the Russian jetliner, the Russians have been hitting ISIS hard. According to the Russians:

Russian airstrikes have torched more than 1,000 tankers taking stolen crude oil to Islamic State refineries. This blow against the jihadists comes as the Russian Air Force has hit 472 terrorist targets in two days in Syria, making 141 sorties.

This Guardian (sic) article provides useful information on the relationship between Turkey and ISIS and why Turkey won’t cut the oil supply lines. Looks like the Turks didn’t like the Russians doing it. This will not end well.

One man bears 100% of the responsibility for the rise of the ISIS and the death and destruction that has followed and will follow.

Russia hasn’t really been hitting ISIS, they’ve been hitting the anti-Assad “rebels.”

There are no rebels and there are no moderates. There is only IS and various other Sunni AQ clones there by now.

&&

I’ve been preaching that everywhere for months.

It has not registered.

The proles are still in the ether.

They are still buying Winston Smith’s handiwork — strike that.

They are still buying Barry Soetoro’s handiwork.

What I find most curious is that only a few days after I’ve been ranting…

Suddenly the Russians are cutting loose with info they’ve had all along.

I don’t buy the Russian track at all.

I also can’t believe that this is a one-jet strike. The Russians had gotten used to crossing the tip of Turkey.

Erdogan’s previous protests had been blown off.

This is the Russian’s way of war.

As for ISIS, blowing up the Russian airline has caused Putin to re-prioritize everything.

I should think that Russia will flatten ISIS … probably by January — if we’re not at Defcon 1.

There are no rebels and there are no moderates. There is only IS and various other Sunni AQ clones there by now.

I don’t know if the Gulf of Tonkin incident was real or faked, but I do know it was used a justification for a massive escalation of the war. This article from historynet.com relies on information from the NSA which was declassified in 2007. It says the whole deal was a miscommunication – confusing a South Vietnam raid on the North for a North Vietnam attack on the Maddox. Based upon the NSA material, it looks like the first patrol boat attack on the Maddox actually happened, but the second one – which LBJ used to escalate the war – did not.

Getting back to the topic at hand, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Russian jet intentionally violated Turkish airspace knowing they would be fired upon. It would be interesting to know exactly when the Russian pilots bailed out – before or after they were hit by Turkish air-to-air missiles. They could have bailed as soon as they heard the missile-lock tones.

um… ahhh… one second…

Diplomats present at the meeting told Reuters that while none of the 28 NATO envoys defended Russia’s actions, many expressed concern that Turkey did not escort the Russian warplane out of its airspace.

The shoot-down is madness.

It wouldn’t matter if Russia actually was flying over Turkish air space.

Russia is not bombing Turkey, or anything else.

I actually believe that the Russians were crossing Turkey.

The single ‘nose’ sticking south is so trivial (unoccupied) that the short cut seemed harmless to the pilot.

It’s a pretty good bet that the Turks DID warn the Russians over and over – but not on this occasion.

(It’ be patently impossible.)

What’s been happening is that the Russians have gotten used to crossing that stub of land – and the bitching of the Turks.

[ Further, I’d be willing to bet that more than one Su-24 was whipping on through. A string of ‘cross-overs’ punched Erdogan’s buttons. ]

The above sequence explains why the Pentagon believes the Turks’ version of events.

The Russian, so-called, flight trace looks like it was drawn with a propaganda marker.

The Turkish trace looks like a digital download from their radar net. It’s MUCH more credible.

The Turks should’ve let such trivial transgressions slide. They stand as nothing compared to the meddling that Erdogan has engaged in.

Hollande is chilling Putin; Barry is chilling Erdogan.

I rather doubt that Erdogan or Putin will climb back down.

I see them doubling down.

This is where Barry’s treason is leading us.

International affairs are a blot on Hitlery’s record.

She took a big dump on Moscow and Damascus and Baghdad.

This stink is the result.

Obama pokes Putin, says jet shoot-down part of ‘ongoing problem’ with Russians
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/24/obama-pokes-putin-says-jet-shoot-down-points-ongoi/

President Obama said the shoot-down “points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations” in Syria, including attacks against moderate Syrian opposition groups near the Turkish border.

If Russia were going after the Islamic State instead, Mr. Obama said, such mistakes “are less likely to occur.” He said it’s important for Turkish and Russian officials to communicate and to “discourage any kind of escalation.”

“We must prevent an escalation,” he said.

Mr. Obama said the U.S. is still gathering facts of the shoot-down, but said Turkey “has a right to defend its territory and its airspace.”

In the very famous western treatise On War, it is pointed out that such things happen when one side says it wants the other to do something and is refused.

Principles and rules are intended to provide a thinking man with a frame of reference.
Carl von Clausewitz

These are also what makes the walls of the box they keep telling you to think out of…

and for a frisson chill
Never forget that no military leader has ever become great without audacity.
Carl von Clausewitz

Wars are easy to start, its finishing them that’s the hard part…

I referred to the Turk’s released radar tracks, who certainly have every incentive to portray the Russians as guilty. That track shows the Russian jets crossing over the very tip of Turkish territory for approx. 17 seconds. Given that the pilots ejected over Syrian territory, by the time the Russian jet was hit, it was almost certainly over Syrian territory.

The Russians were not bombing in Turkish territory. Technically, the Turk’s actions are defensible. However, they invite future confrontation.