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	Comments on: Regarding ISIS, no good choices	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-939029</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2015 02:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-939029</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Richard Saunders,

There&#039;s plenty more of that. 

Bush law and policy on Iraq were not novel. Instead, they updated and restated standing terms, most of which were enacted during the Clinton administration. In fact, the best source for understanding the Iraq intervention is President Clinton, not President Bush.

Go to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2004/10/perspective-on-operation-iraqi-freedom.html#clinton&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;President Clinton Perspective&lt;/a&gt; for links to Clinton administration primary sources on the Iraq enforcement.

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, and Clinton and Gore statements on the Clinton policy for Iraqi regime change are quoted and linked in this &lt;a href=&quot;http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2013/03/10-year-anniversary-start-Operation-Iraqi-Freedom-thoughts.html#unscr688&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;section&lt;/a&gt; for the humanitarian grounds of OIF. Scroll past the HW Bush quotes for the Clinton and Gore quotes.

The Democrats and fellow travelers&#039; memory wipe of Clinton&#039;s Iraq enforcement has been blatant Soviet-photo-cropping-level propaganda. Clinton&#039;s Iraq enforcement was headline news throughout his administration, still fresh in 2002-2003, and even cited by Clinton in his initial endorsements of OIF. 

It&#039;s no coincidence that my OIF FAQ explanation, which is purpose-designed to reset the narrative &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; counter the false narrative for the zeitgeist, is chock-full of Clinton (and Gore) references. My explanation is oriented as President Bush &lt;i&gt;faithfully&lt;/i&gt; carrying forward the case against Saddam and enforcement procedure for the ceasefire mandates from President Clinton, which is simply the truth of the matter. 

I encourage you to teach my OIF FAQ explanation to your Democratic acquaintances. It&#039;s meant for them most of all.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Saunders,</p>
<p>There&#8217;s plenty more of that. </p>
<p>Bush law and policy on Iraq were not novel. Instead, they updated and restated standing terms, most of which were enacted during the Clinton administration. In fact, the best source for understanding the Iraq intervention is President Clinton, not President Bush.</p>
<p>Go to the <a href="http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2004/10/perspective-on-operation-iraqi-freedom.html#clinton" rel="nofollow">President Clinton Perspective</a> for links to Clinton administration primary sources on the Iraq enforcement.</p>
<p>The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, and Clinton and Gore statements on the Clinton policy for Iraqi regime change are quoted and linked in this <a href="http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2013/03/10-year-anniversary-start-Operation-Iraqi-Freedom-thoughts.html#unscr688" rel="nofollow">section</a> for the humanitarian grounds of OIF. Scroll past the HW Bush quotes for the Clinton and Gore quotes.</p>
<p>The Democrats and fellow travelers&#8217; memory wipe of Clinton&#8217;s Iraq enforcement has been blatant Soviet-photo-cropping-level propaganda. Clinton&#8217;s Iraq enforcement was headline news throughout his administration, still fresh in 2002-2003, and even cited by Clinton in his initial endorsements of OIF. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s no coincidence that my OIF FAQ explanation, which is purpose-designed to reset the narrative <i>and</i> counter the false narrative for the zeitgeist, is chock-full of Clinton (and Gore) references. My explanation is oriented as President Bush <i>faithfully</i> carrying forward the case against Saddam and enforcement procedure for the ceasefire mandates from President Clinton, which is simply the truth of the matter. </p>
<p>I encourage you to teach my OIF FAQ explanation to your Democratic acquaintances. It&#8217;s meant for them most of all.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Saunders		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938985</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Saunders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 22:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938985</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dennis -- it should be added to your excellent discussion that Israel&#039;s order to exterminate whole peoples (herem) was limited to the Canaanite tribes, because they practiced infant sacrifice (this has been confirmed by archeological evidence)  and open sex-orgy fertility rites.  The rules of war were completely different with respect to other peoples.

Now that I think about it, maybe an argument could be made that the herem rule applies to the Islamists, with their child suicide bombers and mass rapes?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis &#8212; it should be added to your excellent discussion that Israel&#8217;s order to exterminate whole peoples (herem) was limited to the Canaanite tribes, because they practiced infant sacrifice (this has been confirmed by archeological evidence)  and open sex-orgy fertility rites.  The rules of war were completely different with respect to other peoples.</p>
<p>Now that I think about it, maybe an argument could be made that the herem rule applies to the Islamists, with their child suicide bombers and mass rapes?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Saunders		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938984</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Saunders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 22:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938984</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eric --  I may have mentioned this here before, but it bears repeating:  I have gotten excellent jaw-dropping and &quot;Uh-uh-uh&quot;-ing from my lefty acquaintances by simply saying, &quot;You do know that it was official U.S. policy to overthrow Saddam Hussein, passed almost unanimously by Congress, including Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi, and signed into law by President Bill Clinton in the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998,&quot; don&#039;t you?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric &#8212;  I may have mentioned this here before, but it bears repeating:  I have gotten excellent jaw-dropping and &#8220;Uh-uh-uh&#8221;-ing from my lefty acquaintances by simply saying, &#8220;You do know that it was official U.S. policy to overthrow Saddam Hussein, passed almost unanimously by Congress, including Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi, and signed into law by President Bill Clinton in the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998,&#8221; don&#8217;t you?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938937</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 19:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938937</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;telling your are making things rather telling the truth&lt;/b&gt;

Don&#039;t understand what you are trying to communicate. Are you using some kind of translation program? Why don&#039;t you wrote it in your native language.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>telling your are making things rather telling the truth</b></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t understand what you are trying to communicate. Are you using some kind of translation program? Why don&#8217;t you wrote it in your native language.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938936</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 19:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938936</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

My sources are triangulated more towards the military history, rather than the study of Islam. For that I have to look up Warner&#039;s executive summaries.

http://drbillwarner.com/#books

A correction on the previous, not sura but sira.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo</a></p>
<p>My sources are triangulated more towards the military history, rather than the study of Islam. For that I have to look up Warner&#8217;s executive summaries.</p>
<p><a href="http://drbillwarner.com/#books" rel="nofollow ugc">http://drbillwarner.com/#books</a></p>
<p>A correction on the previous, not sura but sira.</p>
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		<title>
		By: japan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938933</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[japan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 19:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938933</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ymarsakar
your note Quran or the Koran, the Hadiths, and the Suras.
telling your are making things rather telling the truth]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ymarsakar<br />
your note Quran or the Koran, the Hadiths, and the Suras.<br />
telling your are making things rather telling the truth</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: japan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938932</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[japan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 19:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938932</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[J.J. Says:
&lt;i&gt;You seem to believe that my interpretation is inferior to yours because you are a Christian and I’m not.&lt;/i&gt;


J.J
You hit the rock down:
&quot;Old Testament on its head. However, as Christianity evolved it went back to using Old Testament scripture to justify making war on enemies&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.J. Says:<br />
<i>You seem to believe that my interpretation is inferior to yours because you are a Christian and I’m not.</i></p>
<p>J.J<br />
You hit the rock down:<br />
&#8220;Old Testament on its head. However, as Christianity evolved it went back to using Old Testament scripture to justify making war on enemies&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938931</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 18:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938931</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are 3 sets of holy texts in Islam. The Quran or the Koran, the Hadiths, and the Suras.

The Hadiths and Suras contain more than 50% of the total text bulk, so the Koran constitutes far less of the material than people think.

The Koran itself is split between Mecca and Medina portions. Mecca was where Mohammed tried his con using the peaceful conversion trick, he got about 100 converts in about 10-20 years. When he moved to Medina, he adopted jihad and got the entire Arabic peninsula&#039;s tribes under his religion in his life time.

That&#039;s the difference people don&#039;t want to hear. Jihad is more successful, conversion by the sword is absolutely recognized as more useful and effective under Islam than any other method. And if people don&#039;t want to convert you, then they aren&#039;t going to use &quot;jihad&quot; against you to begin with.

But for those that live under Islam, Holy War is total war. It includes economic raids and slave raids. It includes demoralization campaigns and infiltration. It includes everything and anything. This is a religion, a political system, and a culture designed to produce conquerors in absolute bulk.

It is not something Westerners really know how to handle.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are 3 sets of holy texts in Islam. The Quran or the Koran, the Hadiths, and the Suras.</p>
<p>The Hadiths and Suras contain more than 50% of the total text bulk, so the Koran constitutes far less of the material than people think.</p>
<p>The Koran itself is split between Mecca and Medina portions. Mecca was where Mohammed tried his con using the peaceful conversion trick, he got about 100 converts in about 10-20 years. When he moved to Medina, he adopted jihad and got the entire Arabic peninsula&#8217;s tribes under his religion in his life time.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the difference people don&#8217;t want to hear. Jihad is more successful, conversion by the sword is absolutely recognized as more useful and effective under Islam than any other method. And if people don&#8217;t want to convert you, then they aren&#8217;t going to use &#8220;jihad&#8221; against you to begin with.</p>
<p>But for those that live under Islam, Holy War is total war. It includes economic raids and slave raids. It includes demoralization campaigns and infiltration. It includes everything and anything. This is a religion, a political system, and a culture designed to produce conquerors in absolute bulk.</p>
<p>It is not something Westerners really know how to handle.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938926</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 18:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938926</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JJ,

In other subjects, you&#039;re just whoever you are. Free from expectations.

This subject area is your wheelhouse.

We&#039;re not usually going to dive much deeper than a &#039;back of the envelope&#039; sketch. This is a popular blog, not school. We&#039;re not briefing a CO. But based on our other discussions here, including our agreements, and your background for which I have a cousinly affinity, I still expect better from your &#039;armchair&#039; &lt;i&gt;strategic&lt;/i&gt; analysis than the kind of blinkered shortcut I expect from other commenters.

In any case, of the several points you made, the point that stands out in this thread isn&#039;t your surprising cop-out explanation of Iraq&#039;s regression. It&#039;s your suggested prescription for the ISIS problem, building on the Schlichter article, that essentially restores the status quo ante with President Bush&#039;s ME policy upon the COIN &quot;Surge&quot; until President Obama&#039;s course change and the Arab Spring. 

You&#039;re right that your suggested prescription is &quot;a hard sell for sure&quot;, because folks like Ezra Klein shunt it outside the Overton Window using a taboo derived from a stigma premised on the false narrative of OIF. 

Selling your prescription will require the preliminary step of digging out and discrediting the false narrative (and narrators) of OIF at the premise level in the Narrative contest for the zeitgeist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ,</p>
<p>In other subjects, you&#8217;re just whoever you are. Free from expectations.</p>
<p>This subject area is your wheelhouse.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not usually going to dive much deeper than a &#8216;back of the envelope&#8217; sketch. This is a popular blog, not school. We&#8217;re not briefing a CO. But based on our other discussions here, including our agreements, and your background for which I have a cousinly affinity, I still expect better from your &#8216;armchair&#8217; <i>strategic</i> analysis than the kind of blinkered shortcut I expect from other commenters.</p>
<p>In any case, of the several points you made, the point that stands out in this thread isn&#8217;t your surprising cop-out explanation of Iraq&#8217;s regression. It&#8217;s your suggested prescription for the ISIS problem, building on the Schlichter article, that essentially restores the status quo ante with President Bush&#8217;s ME policy upon the COIN &#8220;Surge&#8221; until President Obama&#8217;s course change and the Arab Spring. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that your suggested prescription is &#8220;a hard sell for sure&#8221;, because folks like Ezra Klein shunt it outside the Overton Window using a taboo derived from a stigma premised on the false narrative of OIF. </p>
<p>Selling your prescription will require the preliminary step of digging out and discrediting the false narrative (and narrators) of OIF at the premise level in the Narrative contest for the zeitgeist.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/11/18/regarding-isis-no-good-choices/#comment-938913</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 17:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=54538#comment-938913</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dennis, I don&#039;t have time today to address your comment. Except for this. You and I disagree about historical events and comparative religion. You seem to believe that my interpretation is inferior to yours because you are a Christian and  I&#039;m not. Based on that frame of reference we will not agree, no matter how deep and long we might  debate. I agree to disagree and withdraw from the debate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis, I don&#8217;t have time today to address your comment. Except for this. You and I disagree about historical events and comparative religion. You seem to believe that my interpretation is inferior to yours because you are a Christian and  I&#8217;m not. Based on that frame of reference we will not agree, no matter how deep and long we might  debate. I agree to disagree and withdraw from the debate.</p>
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