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	Comments on: Kim Davis: Christian believer or homophobe?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 04:35:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919501</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 04:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919501</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[charles:

Actually, Davis is stealing nothing and is not a bigot, and I offer as evidence &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, which hasn&#039;t gotten much press (because it would tend to exonerate her of those charges):
&lt;blockquote&gt;Yet besides her losing claim in the federal lawsuit, it seems to me that Davis has a much stronger claim under state law for a much more limited exemption. Davis’s objection, it appears (see pp. 40, 133, and 139 of her stay application and attachments), is not to issuing same-sex marriage licenses as such. Rather, she objects to issuing such licenses with her name on them, because she believes (rightly or wrongly) that having her name on them is an endorsement of same-sex marriage. Indeed, she says that she would be content with

&quot;Modifying the prescribed Kentucky marriage license form to remove the multiple references to Davis’ name, and thus to     remove the personal nature of the authorization that Davis must provide on the current form.&quot;

Now this would be a cheap accommodation that, it seems to me, a state could quite easily provide. It’s true that state law requires the County Clerk’s name on the marriage license and the marriage certificate. But the point of RFRAs, such as the Kentucky RFRA, is precisely to provide religious objectors with exemptions even from such generally applicable laws, so long as the exemptions don’t necessarily and materially undermine a compelling government interest.

And allowing all marriage licenses and certificates – for opposite-sex marriages or same-sex ones – to include a deputy clerk’s name, or just the notation “Rowan County Clerk,” wouldn’t jeopardize any compelling government interest. To be sure, it would have to be clear that this modification is legally authorized, and doesn’t make the license and certificate invalid. But a court that grants Davis’s RFRA exemption request could easily issue an order that makes this clear.

Indeed, Kim Davis has filed a federal complaint against state officials under, among other things, the Kentucky RFRA. And, as I noted, one of the proposed accommodations that she herself has suggested, albeit in the federal stay application, is the simple removal of her name.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In other words, to make a long story short: &lt;i&gt;she wants her name removed from the licenses&lt;/i&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>charles:</p>
<p>Actually, Davis is stealing nothing and is not a bigot, and I offer as evidence <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/" rel="nofollow">this</a>, which hasn&#8217;t gotten much press (because it would tend to exonerate her of those charges):</p>
<blockquote><p>Yet besides her losing claim in the federal lawsuit, it seems to me that Davis has a much stronger claim under state law for a much more limited exemption. Davis’s objection, it appears (see pp. 40, 133, and 139 of her stay application and attachments), is not to issuing same-sex marriage licenses as such. Rather, she objects to issuing such licenses with her name on them, because she believes (rightly or wrongly) that having her name on them is an endorsement of same-sex marriage. Indeed, she says that she would be content with</p>
<p>&#8220;Modifying the prescribed Kentucky marriage license form to remove the multiple references to Davis’ name, and thus to     remove the personal nature of the authorization that Davis must provide on the current form.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now this would be a cheap accommodation that, it seems to me, a state could quite easily provide. It’s true that state law requires the County Clerk’s name on the marriage license and the marriage certificate. But the point of RFRAs, such as the Kentucky RFRA, is precisely to provide religious objectors with exemptions even from such generally applicable laws, so long as the exemptions don’t necessarily and materially undermine a compelling government interest.</p>
<p>And allowing all marriage licenses and certificates – for opposite-sex marriages or same-sex ones – to include a deputy clerk’s name, or just the notation “Rowan County Clerk,” wouldn’t jeopardize any compelling government interest. To be sure, it would have to be clear that this modification is legally authorized, and doesn’t make the license and certificate invalid. But a court that grants Davis’s RFRA exemption request could easily issue an order that makes this clear.</p>
<p>Indeed, Kim Davis has filed a federal complaint against state officials under, among other things, the Kentucky RFRA. And, as I noted, one of the proposed accommodations that she herself has suggested, albeit in the federal stay application, is the simple removal of her name.</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, to make a long story short: <i>she wants her name removed from the licenses</i>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919443</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 22:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919443</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;When the Left obtains the power to crush their foes, they no longer ask for mercy. Now they will slit your throats and if you beg them for mercy, they’ll spit on you and say “this is the Rule of Law, obey or die”.&quot;

You have stated the truth based on hundreds if years of actual history. The Left, sons and daughters of the Lie, do what the Lie always does.

For that you can consult the New Testament.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When the Left obtains the power to crush their foes, they no longer ask for mercy. Now they will slit your throats and if you beg them for mercy, they’ll spit on you and say “this is the Rule of Law, obey or die”.&#8221;</p>
<p>You have stated the truth based on hundreds if years of actual history. The Left, sons and daughters of the Lie, do what the Lie always does.</p>
<p>For that you can consult the New Testament.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919407</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 18:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919407</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When the Left lacks the power to do something, they say things like &quot;minority rights&quot; and how human rights negate the power of the majority or the Rule of Law, or defense in foreign or domestic spheres.

When the Left obtains the power to crush their foes, they no longer ask for mercy. Now they will slit your throats and if you beg them for mercy, they&#039;ll spit on you and say &quot;this is the Rule of Law, obey or die&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the Left lacks the power to do something, they say things like &#8220;minority rights&#8221; and how human rights negate the power of the majority or the Rule of Law, or defense in foreign or domestic spheres.</p>
<p>When the Left obtains the power to crush their foes, they no longer ask for mercy. Now they will slit your throats and if you beg them for mercy, they&#8217;ll spit on you and say &#8220;this is the Rule of Law, obey or die&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 18:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Charles was behind the Leftist, DemoNcrat, homo activist agenda group that forced the morally upstanding righteously high standing, horse sitting, propaganda down the throats of Americans when they said:

Homo marriage is a human right, it has nothing to do and will have no interference with normal traditional marriage.

So they claimed. So they wanted everyone to believe, at elast.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles was behind the Leftist, DemoNcrat, homo activist agenda group that forced the morally upstanding righteously high standing, horse sitting, propaganda down the throats of Americans when they said:</p>
<p>Homo marriage is a human right, it has nothing to do and will have no interference with normal traditional marriage.</p>
<p>So they claimed. So they wanted everyone to believe, at elast.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919267</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 03:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919267</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s more on this issue from Bookworm:
http://www.bookwormroom.com/ 

&quot;Nowadays, though, if the right type of Leftist breaks the right type of law, he does so with impunity and to applause. The best example of this in the context of Kim Davis’s true act of civil disobedience took place in 2004, when then-San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsome took a stance that is the mirror image of what Davis is doing:  He announced that he was going to ignore California’s laws banning same sex marriage and, instead, have the City issue marriage licenses to all gay couples desiring them.

The consequences that came Newsome’s way as a result of his theoretical act of “civil disobedience” would have surprised Thoreau, Gandhi, and King.  There was no martyrdom involved.  Instead, Newsome was suddenly a fifteen minute wonder, which set him on the path to California’s Lieutenant Governorship (and, he hopes, eventually to the Governor’s chair). The Press oooh’ed and aaah’ed about Newsome’s bravery.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s more on this issue from Bookworm:<br />
<a href="http://www.bookwormroom.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.bookwormroom.com/</a> </p>
<p>&#8220;Nowadays, though, if the right type of Leftist breaks the right type of law, he does so with impunity and to applause. The best example of this in the context of Kim Davis’s true act of civil disobedience took place in 2004, when then-San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsome took a stance that is the mirror image of what Davis is doing:  He announced that he was going to ignore California’s laws banning same sex marriage and, instead, have the City issue marriage licenses to all gay couples desiring them.</p>
<p>The consequences that came Newsome’s way as a result of his theoretical act of “civil disobedience” would have surprised Thoreau, Gandhi, and King.  There was no martyrdom involved.  Instead, Newsome was suddenly a fifteen minute wonder, which set him on the path to California’s Lieutenant Governorship (and, he hopes, eventually to the Governor’s chair). The Press oooh’ed and aaah’ed about Newsome’s bravery.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nick		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919258</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 02:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919258</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why don&#039;t you have a Facebook &quot;share&quot; button?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t you have a Facebook &#8220;share&#8221; button?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919252</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 02:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919252</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Edit: .......to convince you that Mrs. Davis is NOT the devil incarnate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edit: &#8230;&#8230;.to convince you that Mrs. Davis is NOT the devil incarnate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919251</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 02:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919251</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a good example of my point:
http://www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-double-standard-on-violating-the-law.jpg

The law is being ignored or violated frequently by the elected officials. Let a Christian challenge or ignore a law and she goes to jail. Of course it is much easier to throw a mere County Clerk in the pokey than to call the President, Attorney General, Secretary of State, or Commissioner of the IRS to account for not following the law.

If you don&#039;t see that, charles, there is not much that can be done to convince you that Mrs. Davis is the devil incarnate. I&#039;ll not call you a name. Only ask that you try to see the truth of what is actually happening.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a good example of my point:<br />
<a href="http://www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-double-standard-on-violating-the-law.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-double-standard-on-violating-the-law.jpg</a></p>
<p>The law is being ignored or violated frequently by the elected officials. Let a Christian challenge or ignore a law and she goes to jail. Of course it is much easier to throw a mere County Clerk in the pokey than to call the President, Attorney General, Secretary of State, or Commissioner of the IRS to account for not following the law.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t see that, charles, there is not much that can be done to convince you that Mrs. Davis is the devil incarnate. I&#8217;ll not call you a name. Only ask that you try to see the truth of what is actually happening.</p>
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		<title>
		By: charles		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919231</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[charles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 01:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919231</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My comment at 6:07 and the Mike&#039;s at 9:16 calling me a &lt;i&gt;&quot;typically hateful bigot of the lefto-fascist sort&quot;&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;&quot;run-of-the-mill Nazi&quot;&lt;/i&gt;; only a few hours before someone chimes in with name-calling.

Not surprised.

Neo&#039;s is usually filled with great postings from Neo herself, very in-depth, well-thought-out, and interesting.  The kind of commentary I used to get from newspapers back in the day before they all became ideological echo chambers.

Most of the commenters are the same - well thought out and interesting; but, even so, I&#039;m not surprise and I expected some name-calling from a few for daring to voice an opinion different from most.

I also want to say thank you Neo, for allowing ALL of us to voice our opinion.  It is one of the things that makes your blog so great!

As for MY fate, Mike?  Only God knows that now; but, I suspect I&#039;ll find out soon enough. However, I do believe that I will have no regrets in using God&#039;s name in vain as I only voice &lt;i&gt;my opinion&lt;/i&gt; as to what certain texts mean; by no means am I some sort of expert.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My comment at 6:07 and the Mike&#8217;s at 9:16 calling me a <i>&#8220;typically hateful bigot of the lefto-fascist sort&#8221;</i> and <i>&#8220;run-of-the-mill Nazi&#8221;</i>; only a few hours before someone chimes in with name-calling.</p>
<p>Not surprised.</p>
<p>Neo&#8217;s is usually filled with great postings from Neo herself, very in-depth, well-thought-out, and interesting.  The kind of commentary I used to get from newspapers back in the day before they all became ideological echo chambers.</p>
<p>Most of the commenters are the same &#8211; well thought out and interesting; but, even so, I&#8217;m not surprise and I expected some name-calling from a few for daring to voice an opinion different from most.</p>
<p>I also want to say thank you Neo, for allowing ALL of us to voice our opinion.  It is one of the things that makes your blog so great!</p>
<p>As for MY fate, Mike?  Only God knows that now; but, I suspect I&#8217;ll find out soon enough. However, I do believe that I will have no regrets in using God&#8217;s name in vain as I only voice <i>my opinion</i> as to what certain texts mean; by no means am I some sort of expert.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/09/04/kim-davis-christian-believer-or-homophobe/#comment-919226</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 01:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=52285#comment-919226</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Charles: &quot;The courts have ruled that same sex marriage is now legal; you don’t have to like it; but, it is now the law. period.

Davis is a bigot.&quot;

The courts no longer have any legitimacy. There so-called &quot;rulings&quot; mean nothing and no one on Planet Earth has any moral obligation to listen to them one bit. The only reason anyone must listen to these fascist pigs is because they have police and guns and prisons. 

Period.

Davis is not a bigot. You are a typically hateful bigot of the lefto-fascist sort. If it was 1935 Germany you&#039;d just be another run-of-the-mill Nazi.

Your fate will no doubt be their fate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Charles: &#8220;The courts have ruled that same sex marriage is now legal; you don’t have to like it; but, it is now the law. period.</p>
<p>Davis is a bigot.&#8221;</p>
<p>The courts no longer have any legitimacy. There so-called &#8220;rulings&#8221; mean nothing and no one on Planet Earth has any moral obligation to listen to them one bit. The only reason anyone must listen to these fascist pigs is because they have police and guns and prisons. </p>
<p>Period.</p>
<p>Davis is not a bigot. You are a typically hateful bigot of the lefto-fascist sort. If it was 1935 Germany you&#8217;d just be another run-of-the-mill Nazi.</p>
<p>Your fate will no doubt be their fate.</p>
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