“Here we go again. Another “mass murder” by a whacko with a gun. So guns are evil, and must be kept out of the hands of whackos.”

Scratch wacko; they’re going with racist. Black lives matter / open season… et cetera… secondary narrative to guns cause cause violence. twofur

Really?

I wonder what THEIR answer is for the massacre, considering 99% of Salon are white. Or do they just mean conservatives?

It’s stuff like this that turns me to talk radio

Artfldgr Says:
June 19th, 2015 at 10:25 am

DNW Says: Granted that a .45 is almost certainly to be a clip loaded weapon … but still, one would have hoped that they might have scattered and some been able to flee to safety or maybe even overwhelm him …

no.. its not a “clip” its a magazine..”

Effen eh, thank you so much …

On hitting the “submit” button, I strongly suspected someone would probably make a point of it; but didn’t feel it was worth the bother of immediately posting a footnote.

Most people who actually shoot a lot would shrug it off. What’s the point of such pedantry in this context?

But I used, and left, the term “clip” because it is an extremely common if technically erroneous way, often seen, of referring to the ability of a hand held weapon to be reloaded almost instantly.

I could have said “removable magazine” I suppose. Because though all semi-auto pistols I have seen have magazines of some kind, not all magazines are removable.

And as you seemed to realize half way through your little disquisition, not all pistols chambered for the .45 ACP are are box magazine fitted and recoil or blowback operated semi-autos. And apart from any issue of cylindrical speed loaders for the modern .45 ACP revolver, there is the clip loaded 1917 .45 ACP revolver.

But I think we have all been assuming he had a 1911 style pistol and not a Ruger Vaquero (which I just now looked up to confirm) or 1917 revolver?

So, yes, you do in fact drop the magazine on any semi-auto .45 I have seen or shot, mostly 1911s, and replace it with another fresh magazine when speed loading.

And yes, of course, usually one does not reload a box magazine with a clip, unless the weapon has a charger bridge or some other enabling feature mostly found on rifles like the SMLE rifle; or is famously like the Mauser 1896: a box magazine semi-auto pistol loaded with a “clip”. I doubt though anyone imagines he was armed with a rare Chinese broom handle in .45 ACP?

And as you seem to be trying to cover the bases, you do seem to tacitly acknowledge the 1917 .45 ACP revolvers used “clips” nonetheless.

That said, I am sure that it’s your thousands of hours in the deep woods chasing game, and your many hours spent at the shooting range and remodeling surplus military arms into useable hunting weapons, that has have left you with this practically gained information you are so anxious to share.

Happy hunting Art.

this is probably the correct thing as bible study is never in the pews… while our imagination from movies is that everything happens in the pews…

bible study is usually in a plain room at a table.. often such rooms only have one exit, which the gunman probably blocks, so there is no escape.

people in the majority freeze… so they will just stand there… the kid that “survived” by playing dead, did not survive by playing dead, the gunman did not want to shoot them. in a 10×10 room and one shooter, he knows who he shot and who he didnt shoot… in a war with many gunman near a pit of people being shot, like germany did, the shooters dont know who shot whom, and so pretending to be dead will work.

so its bs and so forth about that point, but since its from the movies, and the child probably laid and froze (the common behavior of children of animals in bad situations), this is the narrative..

the sad part is that this has nothing to do with guns it has everythign to do with disenfranchising groups, fomenting friction, playing favorites unjustly, etc.

white males are being attacked from all sides.
while more mature can take it in stride, and so on, and its part of life, its not the same with someone like this. they see a group getting freebies and such, they see the crime they see that this does not affect the affirmative action and freebies, and they are put upon by teachers, feminists, tv making them to be idiots and on and on it goes.

so a percentage of them snap… they snap in different ways.. and we mostly only pay attention to the ones that do something rare and extreme, and ignore the suicides, and so on.

the point of these things the left does is this not the benefits… your sold on the benefits real or claimed, but are told to ignore the other stuff.

so when a kid whose busting his hump or believes they are finds out that someone who didnt do so gets a free ride in… then what? then they watch tv and see that no one likes them, then what? then they read the politico stuff in school and the young girls want nothing to do with them cause they are whilte male oppressors… then what?

richard the III theme comes in..
if they be blamed for the crime they dont do, they feel they might as well do the thing they are being punished for… that work and achievement is not a way to be famous and known, but doing something horrid can be…

right now i can name a bunch of names we all know by heart… and not because they did something good… in fact, people will know them more than the founding fathers, and other greats..

Chapman…
Ramirez
Kulklinsky
Klebold
Sirhan Sirhan
Billy the Kid
Guevara

some are now heroes… like Che

sad, predictable, and having nothing to do with guns… it has to do with WILL… the will to act.. without that, all the guns in the world wont matter.. just ask iraqi soldiers who throw their guns down and run like the french… and taking away guns wont stop someone who has will.. every kitchen has enough items in it to make nasty things… but those require more knowlege or thievery…

sad any way you look at it
but the liberals who went to college wont look at it in any real way, they dont live in the real world, they live in the world as it was taught to them.. whuich is why so much of what they invent to do doesnt work, and why they are not theones that lead in product creation, stock investing etc… all those things require real world knowlege about the real world and its actions. and these people think inanimate objects are magically scary… like guns… ooh… oh… like 6 year old school children in 45 year old bodies looking at things… the things are embued with qualities the things dont actually have.

no.. its not a “clip” its a magazine..
the term clip came from WWII where the m1 garand used a clip.. ie. the cartridges were clipped together for loading into the rifle. Clips have no springs

the .45 semi automatic pistol has a magazine. spring loaded that pushes cartridges into the gun. the bullet is the metal jacketed lead thing that comes out… the jacketing is not to make them more or less lethal, its to keep the bullet from changing shape as the force today is so great from firing the lead would change shape and not fly straight… however, full metal jacket ammo in the military is used to prevent deformation, and so, allows the bullet to keep traveling (but less damage to the person). and why hollow points and such are not legal in the military while its ok for cops to use them. there are also designs that fragment and some that can explode..

we do not know what he used, and there are .45 caliber revolvers.. though given he was said to reload 5 times, a magazine is more likely as it was not reported he got a speed loader with his present…

the parents that gave that to him were hoping it would “wake him up”… which is very common among parents, and troubled kids… they try to do something nice or something that may motivate them positively, and guns and cars and cell phones, pets, and so on does that because they require responsibility…and so the hope is that with something treasured they would learn responsibility and all that. again, not uncommon, whats uncommon is that it backfires this badly…

The shooter may indeed have been a coward, but that’s not why he chose the victims he chose, IMHO.

I have felt from the start that his motive was to inflame a race war. To do so, killing a few gang members wouldn’t do (and yes, they would have probably been armed and would have shot back—he couldn’t have that!)

But why did he choose the particular victims he did? He could have gone anywhere in the black community and started killing people. He chose these people for the following reasons, in my opinion:

(1) He may have known—and admired—the work of the killers in the KKK who bombed the church in Birmingham in 1963 and killed the 4 little girls. He may have chosen a church for historical reasons, therefore.

(2) Much more importantly, I think, he targeted the most admirable people he could find. People devoted to God, to peace, to love, people everyone admired and loved, in order to sow the most possible fear and outrage at their deaths. Evil unerringly seeks the good and the innocent to try to wreak the most destructive power.

If he was really so upset about it, then why didn’t he go after young male gangbangers in the hood?

Answer: Because he was a coward, and they would have capped his ass before he got his gun out.

It’s really remarkable how common it is in old movies for ordinary people to have guns for self defense. No one thought anything of it as late as the sixties. Where and why did the shift occur?

I’ve heard different things about where the shooting happened. Many accounts read as though it was in the main part of the church, but others seem to indicate it happened in an adjacent room. And I saw a photo with no pews, just a table and chairs. I don’t know which is correct.

Here are some of the details:

Mr. Pinckney was holding a Bible study session with a small group Wednesday when, surveillance video shows, the suspect arrived after 8 p.m. – a slight, blond man with a bowl haircut and a gray sweatshirt. He sat down with the others for a while and listened, then began to disagree with others as they spoke about Scripture, said Kristen Washington, who heard the harrowing story from her family members who were in the meeting and survived.

Witnesses to the tragedy said the gunman actually asked for the pastor when he entered the church, and sat next to Mr. Pinckney during the Bible study.

They said that almost an hour after he arrived, the gunman suddenly stood and pulled a gun, and Ms. Washington’s cousin, Tywanza Sanders, 26, known as the peacemaker of the family, tried to calmly talk the man out of violence..

“You don’t have to do this,” he told the gunman, Ms. Washington recounted.

The gunman replied, “Yes. You are raping our women and taking over the country.”

In an interview with NBC News, Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of Mr. Pinckney’s who also spoke with a survivor, gave nearly the same account of what the gunman said: “I have to do it. You rape our women and you’re taking over our country. And you have to go.”

The gunman took aim at the oldest person present, Susie Jackson, 87, Mr. Sanders’ aunt, Ms. Washington said. Mr. Sanders told the man to point the gun at him, instead, she said, but the man said, “It doesn’t matter. I’m going to shoot all of you.”

Mr. Sanders dived in front of his aunt and the first shot struck him, Ms. Washington said, and then the gunman began shooting others. She said Mr. Sanders’ mother, Felicia, and his niece, lay motionless on the floor, playing dead, and were not shot.

The gunman looked at one woman and told her “that she was going to live so that she can tell the story of what happened,” said Councilman William Dudley Gregorie, a friend of both the female survivor and a trustee in the Emanuel church.

It is mindboggling. He interacted face to face with the victims before the shooting, arguing about Scripture. Then he targeted the oldest first.

There is no other word than “evil.”