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	Comments on: On the biological underpinnings of the idea of race	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901786</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2015 03:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901786</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Science and politics have intermingled like fascism did with business and imperial doctrine, to the point where the race of science and the race of politics, are too corrupt to consider giving them the benefit of the doubt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science and politics have intermingled like fascism did with business and imperial doctrine, to the point where the race of science and the race of politics, are too corrupt to consider giving them the benefit of the doubt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Matt_SE		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901742</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt_SE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 23:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901742</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cornflour and Rachelle,

I also read &quot;A Troublesome Inheritance&quot; and was about to recommend it again. It may have been me who brought it up a year ago.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cornflour and Rachelle,</p>
<p>I also read &#8220;A Troublesome Inheritance&#8221; and was about to recommend it again. It may have been me who brought it up a year ago.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DNW		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901666</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DNW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901666</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;blert Says:
June 15th, 2015 at 6:17 pm


... DNA — and geology – indicate that what is taken as the “White” race ...&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Try,

 &lt;a href=&quot;http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/06/into-out-of-and-across-eurasian-steppe.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Into, out of, and across the Eurasian steppe&lt;/a&gt;


or

&lt;a href=&quot;http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/05/ancient-mtdna-from-neolithic-france.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ancient mtDNA from Neolithic France&lt;/a&gt;

and




&lt;a href=&quot;http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/05/ancient-dna-from-balkans-iron-age-thrace.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The results of the analyses including additional ancient genomes provide mounting evidence that the Iceman&#039;s genetic affinity with Sardinians reflects an ancestry component that was widespread in Europe during the Neolithic. Despite their different geographic origins, both the Swedish farmer gok4 and the Thracian P192-1 closely resemble the Iceman in their relationship with Sardinians, making it unlikely that all three individuals were recent migrants from Sardinia&lt;/a&gt;



Also, for fun.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25885519&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hunter-gatherer European had blue eyes and dark skin&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>blert Says:<br />
June 15th, 2015 at 6:17 pm</p>
<p>&#8230; DNA — and geology – indicate that what is taken as the “White” race &#8230;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Try,</p>
<p> <a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/06/into-out-of-and-across-eurasian-steppe.html" rel="nofollow">Into, out of, and across the Eurasian steppe</a></p>
<p>or</p>
<p><a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/05/ancient-mtdna-from-neolithic-france.html" rel="nofollow">Ancient mtDNA from Neolithic France</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p><a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/05/ancient-dna-from-balkans-iron-age-thrace.html" rel="nofollow">The results of the analyses including additional ancient genomes provide mounting evidence that the Iceman&#8217;s genetic affinity with Sardinians reflects an ancestry component that was widespread in Europe during the Neolithic. Despite their different geographic origins, both the Swedish farmer gok4 and the Thracian P192-1 closely resemble the Iceman in their relationship with Sardinians, making it unlikely that all three individuals were recent migrants from Sardinia</a></p>
<p>Also, for fun.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25885519" rel="nofollow">Hunter-gatherer European had blue eyes and dark skin</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 16:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Today the Washington Post asked if race was real or just a social construction and they decided you can be whatever race you want. I&#039;m glad that&#039;s settled.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today the Washington Post asked if race was real or just a social construction and they decided you can be whatever race you want. I&#8217;m glad that&#8217;s settled.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dennis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901643</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dennis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901643</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sergey Says:

&quot;From a single bone — a fragment of the last digit of a small finger, around 0.5 cm by size, found in Altai cave and several dozen millenia old, a whole new species of humans (Denisov man, different from both Homo sapience and Homo neandertal) was established.&quot;

The Denisovans are another example which disproves the old theory that all races share all alleles for all genes only in different frequencies.  There are probably hundreds or thousands of unique alleles which are shared among some races but are not present in others.

A group of humans exiting Africa stopped long enough on their migration to mate with one or more Denisovans.  According to Wikipedia &quot;about 3% to 5% of the DNA of Melanesians and Aboriginal Australians deriving from Denisovans.[5][6][7] &quot;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan

Other humans who left Africa mated with Neanderthals.  According to some scientists as much as 40% of Neanderthal DNA survives in the genomes of modern Europeans and Asians.  Those genes seem to be absent in modern Africans.  By the time they mated the Neanderthal species and homo sapiens  were so different that they were &quot;at the edge of biological incompatibility.&quot;  In the animal world this is probably similar to the status of coyotes and grey wolves in which only a few offspring have survived to produce a new animal called a coywolf.  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/29/modern-human-dna-neanderthal_n_4689506.html

http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-neanderthal-genes-modern-human-dna-01734.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sergey Says:</p>
<p>&#8220;From a single bone — a fragment of the last digit of a small finger, around 0.5 cm by size, found in Altai cave and several dozen millenia old, a whole new species of humans (Denisov man, different from both Homo sapience and Homo neandertal) was established.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Denisovans are another example which disproves the old theory that all races share all alleles for all genes only in different frequencies.  There are probably hundreds or thousands of unique alleles which are shared among some races but are not present in others.</p>
<p>A group of humans exiting Africa stopped long enough on their migration to mate with one or more Denisovans.  According to Wikipedia &#8220;about 3% to 5% of the DNA of Melanesians and Aboriginal Australians deriving from Denisovans.[5][6][7] &#8221;<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan</a></p>
<p>Other humans who left Africa mated with Neanderthals.  According to some scientists as much as 40% of Neanderthal DNA survives in the genomes of modern Europeans and Asians.  Those genes seem to be absent in modern Africans.  By the time they mated the Neanderthal species and homo sapiens  were so different that they were &#8220;at the edge of biological incompatibility.&#8221;  In the animal world this is probably similar to the status of coyotes and grey wolves in which only a few offspring have survived to produce a new animal called a coywolf.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/29/modern-human-dna-neanderthal_n_4689506.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/29/modern-human-dna-neanderthal_n_4689506.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-neanderthal-genes-modern-human-dna-01734.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-neanderthal-genes-modern-human-dna-01734.html</a></p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: david7134		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901632</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david7134]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901632</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I listened to some lectures on culture not long ago. I think that is the real issue and not the color of one&#039;s skin. In that respect, I don&#039;t care for the African American culture as it has been portrayed and I don&#039;t consider myself as a racist because of that view. Instead, I detest the stereo-type of willful ignorance, constant hand out or taker, racism (yes, blacks are the most racist of all I have met), violence and treatment of women. If you are black and don&#039;t adhere to these cultural aspects, then I judge on individual merits. But, if you fall into the cultural stereotype, then I see no problem in discrimination and society desiring to alter the negative behavior.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I listened to some lectures on culture not long ago. I think that is the real issue and not the color of one&#8217;s skin. In that respect, I don&#8217;t care for the African American culture as it has been portrayed and I don&#8217;t consider myself as a racist because of that view. Instead, I detest the stereo-type of willful ignorance, constant hand out or taker, racism (yes, blacks are the most racist of all I have met), violence and treatment of women. If you are black and don&#8217;t adhere to these cultural aspects, then I judge on individual merits. But, if you fall into the cultural stereotype, then I see no problem in discrimination and society desiring to alter the negative behavior.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 06:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The orthodox position was that genes were fixed and transferred unbroken in the lineage. Later on, some unexplained things start to challenge that concept, the concept of genetic sequences leading to programmed outcomes.

The hunter gathering time of humanity and the farming period of humanity, were environmental changes that humans did to themselves more and more. So one extra idea is that evolution wasn&#039;t random mutation, but self directed by human technological changes to the environment, the diet, activity, etc.

This goes back to the main point, which is do people inherit talents unchanged from their ancestors, or do they have to activate the genes for them to acquire the ability? This is related to neural plasticity, since that is one way to determine the productivity of a talent, rather than trying to reverse engineer it from a gene sequence. (If they could do that, they could DNA sequence people into being super humans too once the DNA manipulation techniques become feasible)

The other issue is whether mutation was really random, based merely on environmental factors, or whether it is also due to the human body activating and de activating genes. If mutation is random, then we have survival of the fittest. Dice roll. If mutation is not random, but keyed to genetic inheritance and the environment, then that explains why human genes change when humans change their behavior.

The next question then becomes, when does the change/mutation occur in the lineage?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The orthodox position was that genes were fixed and transferred unbroken in the lineage. Later on, some unexplained things start to challenge that concept, the concept of genetic sequences leading to programmed outcomes.</p>
<p>The hunter gathering time of humanity and the farming period of humanity, were environmental changes that humans did to themselves more and more. So one extra idea is that evolution wasn&#8217;t random mutation, but self directed by human technological changes to the environment, the diet, activity, etc.</p>
<p>This goes back to the main point, which is do people inherit talents unchanged from their ancestors, or do they have to activate the genes for them to acquire the ability? This is related to neural plasticity, since that is one way to determine the productivity of a talent, rather than trying to reverse engineer it from a gene sequence. (If they could do that, they could DNA sequence people into being super humans too once the DNA manipulation techniques become feasible)</p>
<p>The other issue is whether mutation was really random, based merely on environmental factors, or whether it is also due to the human body activating and de activating genes. If mutation is random, then we have survival of the fittest. Dice roll. If mutation is not random, but keyed to genetic inheritance and the environment, then that explains why human genes change when humans change their behavior.</p>
<p>The next question then becomes, when does the change/mutation occur in the lineage?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rachelle		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901573</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 05:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901573</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cornflour,

Thanks for the heads-up on Hawks&#039; online course on human evolution.  I wasn&#039;t aware of it even though I drop in on his great blog every now and then.  I read Neo-Necon often as well and my not agreeing completely with her on this subject should not be taken by anyone as a lack of regard for her ideas.  I imagine you think the same way.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cornflour,</p>
<p>Thanks for the heads-up on Hawks&#8217; online course on human evolution.  I wasn&#8217;t aware of it even though I drop in on his great blog every now and then.  I read Neo-Necon often as well and my not agreeing completely with her on this subject should not be taken by anyone as a lack of regard for her ideas.  I imagine you think the same way.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cornflour		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cornflour]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 04:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rachelle, sorry I missed the last line of your earlier comment -- the one where you also recommended Wade&#039;s book.  Apologies for the duplication.  I also have a vague memory, from a year or so ago, of someone else writing a comment about &quot;A Troublesome Inheritance.&quot;  Maybe a tiny groundswell?

Since Rachelle and I seem to be reading some of the same things, I&#039;ll also second her recommendation of both John Hawks&#039;s blog and &quot;The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution.&quot;

Finally, I want to put in a plug for a free online course, taught by Hawks, on human evolution.  Hawks does an amazing job of making complex research palatable.  The course videos are no longer posted to Coursera.org, but there&#039;s still a web page for the course, so it looks as if it&#039;ll be offered again soon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachelle, sorry I missed the last line of your earlier comment &#8212; the one where you also recommended Wade&#8217;s book.  Apologies for the duplication.  I also have a vague memory, from a year or so ago, of someone else writing a comment about &#8220;A Troublesome Inheritance.&#8221;  Maybe a tiny groundswell?</p>
<p>Since Rachelle and I seem to be reading some of the same things, I&#8217;ll also second her recommendation of both John Hawks&#8217;s blog and &#8220;The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution.&#8221;</p>
<p>Finally, I want to put in a plug for a free online course, taught by Hawks, on human evolution.  Hawks does an amazing job of making complex research palatable.  The course videos are no longer posted to Coursera.org, but there&#8217;s still a web page for the course, so it looks as if it&#8217;ll be offered again soon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rachelle		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2015/06/15/on-the-biological-underpinnings-of-the-idea-of-race/#comment-901539</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 02:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=49924#comment-901539</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cornflour.  That&#039;s the same book I have recommended in several posts.  That and &#039;The 10,000 Year Explosion&#039;.

Also here is an article from John Hawk&#039;s blog.  He specializes in Neandertals and has been featured on several science oriented shows.  There has been recent, significant, strong evolution in European brains.

http://www.johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/genetics/brain/lahn_2005_aspm_microcephalin_science.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cornflour.  That&#8217;s the same book I have recommended in several posts.  That and &#8216;The 10,000 Year Explosion&#8217;.</p>
<p>Also here is an article from John Hawk&#8217;s blog.  He specializes in Neandertals and has been featured on several science oriented shows.  There has been recent, significant, strong evolution in European brains.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/genetics/brain/lahn_2005_aspm_microcephalin_science.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/genetics/brain/lahn_2005_aspm_microcephalin_science.html</a></p>
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